Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 58. (Read 121833 times)

Get back on topic, buy on dips and hold.
Do not bring or continue the conversation towards loans and lending because that is out of the idea in this topic.
Take a lot of time to understand properly how to invest properly, because you are betting money in this investment, so make one wise decision to succeed.

Practice investing in the early stages, strengthen the budget first for your living needs, set aside a few percent because investment is not for one week but one year, five years, ten years and can even last a lifetime. So little by little it will become a hill. Just buy routinely like most people have done.

Bitcoin is worth more than using it as collateral to get little loan because you lack how to go about with your bitcoin journey in order for you to be able go hodli for a very long time. You should have a means of income which will enable you to take care of your monthly needs and whatever problem that might arise when you are investing in bitcoin and this is where emergency funds is very necessary to all bitcoin investors.

This is why it is not good for one to DCA over aggressively to avoid such thing like getting broke and using your bitcoin to take loan. This is the biggest risk I have ever heard about for someone to risk his bitcoin that he has taken his time to invest and build. It is better that you take a non collateral loan from your place of work or from people you know than using your bitcoin because you are the only person that can keep your bitcoin safe in your self custody wallet.

I believe it's a wrong move allocating once Bitcoin as collateral for some loan amount, I consider it a weak thinking and should be avoided. This forum is one platform that is able by some members to give out loans, yet we've never or I personally haven't witnessed a situation where Bitcoin not just any asset is being given as per collateral even the person issuing the loaned amount never asks for Bitcoin as collateral. Now let's imagine given Bitcoin as a collateral which the sent amount will be equivalent to dollar value of the Bitcoin, that means If by any circumstances unable to meet up the loan return then the lender is left by no option than to take the collateral (Bitcoin), if the lender understands the value of Bitcoin and decides to hold, in few or more period he might be getting X2 of what was sent as collateral.

I really appreciate it, if they want to learn from my experience, However, an investor has many bitter or sweet experiences but most of them don't want to reveal them. But that doesn't matter, the important thing is that they want to fix it so as not to repeat it in the ongoing investment.
I also checked your post history, Even the post I quoted is one of the posts you made on this forum, besides that it only contains application posts.
I think you should be able to improve yourself, be it the investment you make or improve yourself to discuss your approach to Bitcoin.

Yes it is a mistake and an act of carelessness, but it is very important for us not to be reckless in opening any site. even better not to open it because of fear of there being a phishing link listed which will result in our laptop being infiltrated by Hackers.

Of course investors have freedom because they invest with their own money and they decide everything about the investment they make. In this thread we only discuss ideas that are better applied in long-term investment, of course there is no coercion because everything is just an idea which can be judged by yourself whether it is important or not to learn. In fact, I think learning about what we don't know yet is the best way to approach bitcoin investment. An interesting idea from senior investors who invested in bitcoin earlier will be a valuable experience if they are willing to explain the direction of their success in holding bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the most valuable asset and I agree with your idea that bitcoin is worth holding onto until we are old.

You are right sir, many countries used to attack Bitcoin with their bad assumptions. But so far those countries are quite behind compared to the development or journey of bitcoin which has been going on for 16 years until now. Bitcoin is superior to other assets and it has even been proven in the real world.

I don't call using your bitcoin investment as collateral when you are short of funds in a lending platform because it is wrong and you are gambling with your bitcoin investment and that is not smartness but a dumb thing to do.

I don't understand why any investor will acquire enough Bitcoin to the point of getting broke and use his bitcoin investment for collateral, it means that investor didn't plan his bitcoin investment journey properly and he doesn't have an emergency funds to take care of real emergency when it comes. This is the problem alot of newbies are facing, they forget that bitcoin investment is for long term and one needs to use only part of his discretionary income to invest in bitcoin for a long-term so that he can buy regularly and hodli for a long time time without selling part of his bitcoin when it is not of his own will.

It is better for a new investor to have his emergency funds and reserve funds for any emergency that will occur during his bitcoin journey because they are back up funds to our bitcoin investment if we want to be successful in the long run. If you use bitcoin as collateral for a loan, you are to pay for the interest and that will make you sell your bitcoin when you cannot pay up the loan. It is not to invest in bitcoin but to invest wisely with proper plan which will enable you grow, build  hodli your bitcoin stash to your target without selling or using it as collateral.

Don't keep your bitcoin with third party and if you use it as collateral anything can happen to your bitcoin anytime and you will run at big loss. What if the platform pull an exit scam.

Bitcoin has been proven to be the only asset that is resistant to inflation even though its price fluctuates, this makes Bitcoin validated as the best safe haven, as far as I have heard, smart investors will only make Bitcoin their main investment, and when they need money, they will use the Bitcoin they have as collateral in a lending platform, they are very smart because they realize that there are only 21 million Bitcoins and the amount cannot be increased or decreased.

You seem to be talking about trading rather than sustainable withdrawal.. So I was suggesting that once a large enough stash is established then 10% per year could be withdrawn in perpetuity as long as the BTC spot price is staying at least 25% above the 200-WMA and the 200-WMA is being used as the valuation of the BTC stash based on bottom prices rather than based on top prices.  Perhaps my discussion of this is too complicated for my to be stating it and members seem to be misinterpreting what I am saying.


I surely am suggesting to attempt to reach a state of over-accumulation before beginning a time-based sustainable withdraw approach.


That sounds correct, and it makes a difference if a person has other income sources too. So if he has other income sources, he would probably use those first and then perhaps use BTC withdrawals as a means to supplement his income.  And, if his ONLY income source is bitcoin, then he surely should be careful to make sure that his quantity of BTC is sufficient in order to begin to start to spend from his stash, especially in a systematic time-based way that involves reduce his BTC stash by amounts of up to 10% per year.


In spite of ongoing attacks on bitcoin, it continues to outperform other asset classes, and surely there can be worries about the attacks and for any of us to be able to continue to be able to cash out bitcoin or to otherwise be able to spend our bitcoin, so it can be confusing regarding how to invest into bitcoin and whether to hold the BTC directly and then how to continue to ensure the existence of onramps and offramps, even while surely it would be even greater if there are more and more ways to directly transact with other bitcoiners.

I don't consider any investor who wants to accumulate bitcoin only when there is a bitcoin dip because it is a process of accumulating bitcoin. But the only problem I have with investors who only want to accumulate bitcoin in a dip is that it will make them less active in accumulating bitcoin, which will make them wait for the dip they are not even sure will happen, and this will make them not to accumulate enough bitcoin because they will be less active in accumulating bitcoin. Instead of depending only on buying the bitcoin dip to accumulate bitcoin, it would be better for an investor to combine both the DCA strategy and buying the bitcoin dip so that the investor will be consistent in accumulating bitcoin with the DCA strategy while he or she waits patiently for the dip to occur. 

That might not actually be the truth technically, in the sense that some people might be ignorant about some certain things in life. Not that they don't want to learn new ways of doing things but they lack the opportunity to learn at that present time. That being, there are actually people who think like that out there, who once had such thoughts in the past, and went on to still become successful Bitcoin investors. It was later along the line that they began to realize that there actually better ways of doing things when it comes to Bitcoin investment.

Most of us are privileged to be in a forum like this that we have access to knowledge that's shaping our investment decisions and Bitcoin awareness. So I think sometimes we have to consider the possibilities of others who are not as privileged as we are. People who only make Bitcoin deposit to their portfolio when they see a reasonable dip  in the market  let's say 10 to 20% dip. Still they are holding bitcoin for long term. That they are doing it that way doesn't make it the right thing to do, but I'm just using this illustration to let you know that there's every possibility that people who think like that can actually invest in bitcoin and hold for long.


This statement is not true, and I quite disagree with you. The dip can never be a threat to holding bitcoin, because there is actually a strategy of bitcoin investment that's known as buying the dip. I don't see how the dip will be a treat of holding bitcoin. Someone who see the dip as a threat to holding bitcoin, don't actually have the mind to hodl Bitcoin for long term. The person is just looking for opportunities to be making little bucks from Bitcoin trading. Someone who is really interested in holding bitcoin will see every dip that comes along the way as an opportunity to keep adding more to his portfolio, in line with his constant DCA weekly or monthly.


This is basically the characteristics of most Bitcoin investors. People derives joy when they can actually achieve more at reduced price. But they won't be happy seeing that the market is down But they have also forgotten that the market is equally giving opportunity to others to come in. Especially to those who are of the opinion that bitcoin price is currently too high for them to come in.

 That's why long term investment is encouraged for all level of investors. I'm quite aware that long term investors actually see Bitcoin the way you described it here.

I think an investor should tend to withdraw depending on the accumulation of a decent stash. If an investor can accumulate $60k (estimated) worth of bitcoins in a year, it might be decent for him and have a 10% withdrawal opportunity during bullish times, so he should probably withdraw $6K worth of bitcoins. But I think if he has the stamina to do it for a longer period of time from regular DCA deposits, he should continue to deposit for a cycle or two or more without withdrawal. Yes every year if he needs extra money for foreign trips or other needs he can decide to withdraw a % as per his convenience. Also, the more bitcoin holdings an investor has, the more financial independence an investor has, and the more influential bitcoin holders become.

Yes, an investor should have the freedom to do so, but given the current stock market or most other investment conditions, investing in Bitcoin seems far more reliable to me. There must be an abundance of real assets, but if an investor tries to observe the future price trend of Bitcoin, it can easily be predicted that it will increase a lot. Many critics are seen running various disinformation campaigns on Bitcoin's upward trend but most of the time we see its price bouncing back. I can see if the young entrepreneur or investor at the moment tends to accumulate bitcoins on a regular basis, it can greatly benefit them in the future. That's when they realized how much Bitcoin could rise in value.

This link you provided I have gone through it and I don't think if that wallet was compromised. alot of points has been made in regards to that, although some says it compromised while some said it's transaction fee deducted, but no tangible reason to show it was hacked. Because if it was hacked all his funds will have been removed. This was why this kind of  thread was created [General] Bitcoin Wallets - Which, what, why?To enable people to be careful About Wallet issues. But anyway we really need to be careful as we are accumulation our bitcoin, we should as well plan to keep our seed phrase safe to avoid Lost of fund. I bump into a thread yesterday on how to stamp our seed phrase on titanium plate, you can take a look at it, Is it swell to stamp bitcoin seed Phrase on Titanium Plates? I believe it will be helpful and will solve alot of problem to those who are afraid of losing their seed phrase to fire outbreak, flood, rodent attack and any form of unforseen circumstances. Although this strategy does not mean we can not use other backup method but just inclusive.

This reply of mine isn’t too technical, but I just want to remind everyone and add something important. Yes, we have plans to invest, whether gradually to hold for the future, but let’s not forget how to secure our holdings—that’s the most important thing aside from not panicking if the market dumps.

I came across a thread about this.

In need of help, got some of my btc stolen?

He was accumulating without realizing that his wallet had already been compromised, with several transactions, particularly withdrawals, that he didn’t make. So you see, hopefully, we can learn from that and prevent it from happening to us. Imagine holding onto bitcoin for 10 years through gradual investment, only to have it vanish in an instant.

An overwhelming number of normies do not seem to know how to figure out how to employ a sustainable withdrawal rate, and so they end up calculating the whole value, and then figuring out how long they want it to last, and so if they have $600k, then they might say that they can withdraw $60k per year if they want it to last for 10 years, and in bitcoin, that might actually work to have a withdrawal rate that is 10% per year, yet for other investments, they are likely not going to be able to retain their value.. so usually they will make the mistake of withdrawing their principle too soon and NOT making sure that their investment is growing at least as much as what is being withdrawn... and if the investment is not growing at least as much as the withdawal rate they will end up depleting their principle too soon..


if a person reaches a status of having extra bitcoin, then surely he is in a better place to start to withdraw bitcoin on a regular basis and perhaps take years and years to use up the amount that is excess, and if they employ a withdrawal rate that is somewhere between 4% and 10% per year, it is likely that their bitcoin stash will grown in value faster than they withdraw, especially if they calculate their withdrawal rate plan from BTC bottom price indicators, such as the 200-WMA rather than getting overly excited about spot prices that are almost inevitably going to have a whole hell of a lot of variability in them, so if they calculate their wealth (or the value of their holdings based on top prices they may well end up overly withdrawing and overly depleting their principle. and end up getting kicked out of fuck you status. meaning that their chosen withdrawal rate was not sustainable in light of the costs of their living standards..

Your experience shows that fighting emotion and temptation is very important when it comes to Bitcoin or any other long-term investment.  The influence of family or close people, especially if they know our investments, can often influence our decisions.  Many people are tempted to sell assets like Bitcoin to cash in on some immediate needs or luxuries, but you are right that this can be a big mistake.

 Your strategy is now very realistic and intelligent.  Holding BTC for the future with regular income and not selling it when needed, can bring big profits in the long run.  Holding BTC for the future is not just looking at current price growth, but building a strong financial base.

 Also, the way you manage life's essential expenses—such as keeping savings from a steady income source and making purchases without relying on investments—is a great strategy.  This will allow you to keep your BTC or other investments safe for the long term, and fulfill your future goal of financial freedom.

 Your thoughts and strategies can be an inspiration to many who often fall into small temptations and forget their long term goals.

One thing about investment and this is not only about bitcoin Alone but even less Volatile assets or investment is psychology, many people do not find it hard to start investing sometimes but they find it hard to grow that investment, one of the biggest problems is that we think as profits starts settling in we as individuals need to match the investment with our lifestyle and some people take off profits that we meant to be the main foundation of the investment to upgrade their lifestyle and it is on this believe that so many businesses have collapsed today.

Not that I am against taking off profits from any investment, in fact I usually tell some bitcoin investors that they should have partial profit target to take out some profits. This profits can use to build another investment to serve as diversification such that profits from this new investment can still be use to gain back the bitcoin which was liquidated to build that business. One can also take profit from one’s portfolio to solve some problems in the family or home at least it is far better than going for Loans but all this should be done with a mapped out plan for it so as not to spend off capital think one is spending i

Your assumption is wrong.
Those who have successfully owned a lot of BTC in their investments, of course, do it in various ways.
Buying at dips
Buying at once
Buying regularly
Buying every quartel
Buying aggressively.
Just buy Bitcoin in a way that you feel more comfortable running. Just do it as you please in setting the purchase tempo with various strategies and good luck to you.

You are right sir, big influence usually comes from family if they know BTC ownership in our portfolio, Yes they will tempt us to sell it and that is what I felt in previous years and all of that was an unintentional or intentional mistake. Yes, that time was hard for me to imagine because I was careless in telling my family about the investment I made. But as you said we learn from mistakes and now I fix it to stick to my position without being tempted by the temptation of lust to cash in to satisfy the lust to have something like land or a house.

Also you are right about work where a permanent job with passive income every month will make it easier for us to divert our desires if we want to have something. I mean we don't have to sell a small portion of btc for whatever we want but we have a reserve of money from our work to buy something.

Indeed, in the long term, of course, many unexpected things often happen, but yes, that cycle must be anticipated well so as not to interfere with ongoing investments. It is indeed very unfortunate if someone stops accumulating bitcoins because they follow their lust for luxury goods by selling their BTC holdings, which is quite a big mistake.

A BTC accumulator could have BTC buy orders that start from $56k and then go down every $1,500 and scheduled to buy BTC at each potential price point, so then that money is set aside for buying dips, and the further down, the lower the chances that the buy orders will be filled.. and even if the higher level buy orders at $56k might be greater than 50% odds of being filled, that does not make it a good idea to base your buying of BTC on such dips, especially if you are someone who is either brand new to bitcoin and/or even has assessed himself as not having enough BTC.

Of course, since BTC prices are currently right around $59,900 as I type this, someone who set his next buy order at $59,753 would have pretty high odds of having the order filled, so it would not be unreasonable for someone who is largely buying at current prices, so then there would be a question regarding how much cash is desired to keep reserved for buying of dips that might not happen...and each of us would place different odds on different price levels being reached, and surely the odds are ongoingly changing, just like the odds of returning back above $60k are decently high right now, yet the odds of never returning below $52.5k are different today as compared to what they were yesterday, and each of us are not going to be assigning the same odds, yet we might not even need to assign any kinds of accurate odds if we are buying BTC regularly, there may well not be any need for brand new folks to bitcoin to be assigning odds to BTC price drops in regards to their BTC buys, even though they might want to just attempt to do it for fun that does not affect their regular buys.  

We might even consider that the odds of going to $56k might even be in the 65% to 70% arena, yet that still might not be any kind of a justification to set buy on the dip orders for those kinds of prices, because it may not even make much difference if we buy another $100 worth of BTC at $56k as compared to buying it right around our current price of $59,900-ish...especially if we are going to be weekly buying $100 for the next 4-10 years or longer.


To me, it seems that there can be phases of the investment process that are easy, but then a lot of difficulties and temptations along the way...and you pointed out an exact dilemma that comes when people might have some intermediary goals of some specific things that they want to buy such as land or a house - and since intermediary goals tend to be subcomponents of financial independence, they could end up conflicting from higher level goals of reaching financial independence and/or reaching a high enough level with your investment that you don't have to work anymore and that you can just live off the income from your investment in a kind of passive income way.. yeah, sure you may well need to engage in a certain level of work that involves managing your stack.. but at the same time, any other work that comes from how you chose to spend your money are related more to chosen kinds of work that are related to your consumption rather than work that you have to do in order to generate enough income to support your living standards.

My point is that it could become quite tempting to spend some of your BTC investment too early,.. and yeah, sure it might not seem like any kind of problem when you are in your fairly earliest of stages of BTC accumulation, yet if you make it through one or two BTC cycles, you might not be close enough to fuck you status, yet you still might get lured into cashing out decently large portions of your BTC or perhaps diverting your BTC accumulation efforts (when you really should still be accumulating BTC) way earlier than you should be, and perhaps even preventing yourself towards ever reaching fuck you status which might have had been your goal and which might have had been reasonably within your reach if you had not gotten distracted away from your BTC accumulation efforts...and even ending up spending decent chunks of your BTC.

Whoever thinks the dip is only the right time to invest in bitcoin can never invest bitcoin because when the dip is considered as the only time to buy bitcoin, the dip will also be a threat to hodl bitcoin. Some people believe the dip is good for them to buy bitcoin but also see the dip as bad to their investment.  To be able to hodl and be successful in it one needs to grow the mindset to see the dip as no harm, it is only an opportunity to buy bitcoin. The dip is not the end of an investment, but just a movement of the market,  people needs not to bother about it but instead to focus on how to accumulate more Bitcoin and hodl to make a good profit for the future.

Well there is a saying which goes "practice makes perfect" and I believe that would be the case of those people who are already used to Saving little income in their bank account and I believe starting and following up with the same pattern with their Bitcoin investment would be a lot easier for them than those coming new into such practice although even the newcomer won't find it that hard if they have the believe about Bitcoin always moving forward because most of things that fucks up the mind of these new investor is actually when they witness a dip in the price or maybe the bear market which a veteran investor would even be happy to used as an advantage to his investment because that's the period one can BUY THE DIP AND HODL it for long making their portfolio better at the long run of profits that would be gotten in their investment.