Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 57. (Read 121833 times)

If you are a long term bitcoin investor, then think about that first, and think about how much BTC you need to accumulate in terms of your various goals in life and considering your 9 individual factors.  For many folks it takes 30-40 years to really build up an investment, and sure it could be possible that if you are already investing, then you are going to build up your bitcoin holdings faster, and so maybe you might want to try to get several years worth of your expenses into BTC before you might start to feel comfortable about the size of your bitcoin holdings.

If you have an income of between $1.8k and $3.2k per month with an average of $2,500, and your expenses are between $1,500 and $2,200 with an average of $1,800, then on average you have $700 left over that you can invest into bitcoin, so even if you were investing the whole $700 into bitcoin, it is going to take you nearly 3 years to invest an amount that would cover 1 year of your expenses, and surely most people down even have that high of a percentage of disposable income, and I would not even recommend investing all of your disposable income, since you might need some of your disposable income to cover your miscalculation in your expenses, or to cover or build up your various reserve funds, and so there are reasons to not invest all of your discretionary income into bitcoin, even though surely it is within the range of anyone.   When I mentioned the ability to withdraw up to 10% of your bitcoin holdings and to still have it profitable as long as it is  25% above the 200-WMA, I am not talking about you being 25% in profits, and  I presume that you are way more in profits, yet whatever you can do what you like if you think that being 25% in profits is any kind of meaningful thing.. when it seems like peanuts.  There are guys who are 20x or 30x or more in profits, and they are not really thinking about their level of their profits when they get to a stage of considering withdrawing their BTC.. and another thing is that maybe we are getting way too far off of the topic of this thread, since this thread is more about accumulating BTC rather than talking about maintenance and/or withdraw...and you seem way the fuck too early in your BTC accumulation journey to be considering withdraw or trading or whatever you seem to be considering to be selling with 25% profits, when that is just retardedly low levels of profits.

When I refer to the 200 WMA, that is referring to BTC bottom prices and potential ways to assess the value of your BTC holdings, even though surely people are selling BTC at spot price, yet they can valuate their BTC holdings by considering bottom prices, which is what the 200-WMA represents, and right now BTC spot prices is about 50% higher than the 200-WMA   The reason that I suggest that you can employ your sustainable withdrawal when the BTC price is at least 25% above the 200-WMA, then at least you are not at or near bottom BTC prices, so I would think it would be better to modify any of your selling to be less if the BTC price is less than 25% above the 200-WMA... and you should not even be thinking about selling any BTC anyhow unless you have spent at least a whole cycle accumulating or if you had front loaded your BTC investment, and again which gets us back to establishing a sizeable bitcoin holdings first prior to employing something like sustainable withdrawal... in traditional investments, usually the withdrawal rate is 4% annualized, which means that you need to have 20 to 30 years of your income/expenses in your investment portfolio to start to withdraw in a sustainable way and presuming that your investment portfolio is invested in ways that you are able to earn more than 4% on average and to be able to withdraw from it... so with bitcoin, I am presuming that once you reach your accumulation targets of around 10 years or more, then you should be able to withdraw 10% per year in a sustainable way to produce the same income as you would be able to in a traditional investment, but you still likely would have to monitor your withdrawal rates if you are potentially dipping into your principle which also becomes dangerous if you are withdrawing at full rates and the BTC price is less than 25% higher than the 200-WMA.


You seem to be quite mixed up in your expression of your ideas here.  DCA strategy is a way to build up your BTC holdings that is within reach of a lot of people who might not be able to lump sum invest, and it also allows ongoing investment into bitcoin rather than waiting for BTC price dips.  We surely have to get through our BTC accumulation stages prior to talking about withdrawal, and so I think that it becomes overly confusing to be talking about withdrawal strategies prior to making sure that we have reach sufficient and/or overaccumulation first, and many times, folks might go through a bit of transition phase when they are no longer really accumulating more BTC prior to getting into any kind of a withdrawal stage, since it does not make a lot of sense to spend years building up a bitcoin holdings and then to feel some kind of need to go straight into selling it.. and including that if you had been investing DCA, then your earlier DCA purchases would potentially be reaching their 4-10 year or longer timeline sooner than any of your last BTC purchases, so if you are long term investing into bitcoin rather than trading, then you should not be anxious to sell any BTC that you might have had just bought and so in that regard, your last DCA purchases might still have to wait 4-10 years or longer to start to consider whether or not to start to withdraw them.. which is also assuming that your withdraw starts once you reach a kind of overaccumulation goal, which of course, you create your own goals, even if you end up doing dumb things, no one is going to save you if you devolve into trading ideas and practices rather than an investment approach to your BTC.

Buddy if you are really interested in Bitcoin as a newbie, what you actually need is the basic knowledge and before this I think you shoul have been prepared mantally and financially any other stuff can be learned when you kick start your bitcoin journey fully, i must advise that you should invest with DCA method because it enables you to constantly buy with what you can afford slowly and consistently without any form of interruption and hodl for a long-term which should be your main target as a bitcoiner.

I don't agree that intending or existing investors should keep bothering themselves with what the price says, this could lead an investor to lose confidence in the said investment which may cause lack of motivation to invest in Bitcoin, despite how doubful the society has been with Bitcoin which I think is normal for people that has not been part of a particular investment shoul feel, I still believe that there are ndividuals that understands the authenticity and value accompanied with Bitcoin investment, even though you are still in the early stage of Bitcoin discussion as you said, you shouldn't be skeptical about Bitcoin investment rather it should be a matter of concern to you why many people will be in a forum like this having a discussion about bitcoin investment and other aspects of Bitcoin if not for its long-term benefits.

In conclusion the step by step knowledge newbies or intending investors should be seeking for about Bitcoin Investment and Bitcoin long-term investment strategy is the basic knowledge which I have said earlier and the basic knowledge includes how to buy your Bitcoin, the wallet to use in storing and hodling your Bitcoin for the long-term and  continue acuamulating the little you can gradually, steadily and continuously until you reach your level of satisfaction, any other things you want to learn should be when you are fully involved in the system anything that is not inline  with the aforementioned will be regarded as procrastination.

No one is saying that buying bitcoin during the bear market is not the best to buy bitcoin cheaper, but you are sounding more like a trader or someone that will prefer to be sitting on the fence wasting the opportunity that he is supposed to use to get started into his bitcoin investment and take advantage of the market with your DCA strategy by buying regularly weekly or monthly consistently without stopping for long period of time. It is a wronv advice because if someone have his money to get started, he should and not keep the money till when the bear market comes, that is a sign of unseriousness on investing in bitcoin.

Also you are short sighted about what the price of bitcoin will be in ten years time and this why you are talking about taking profit in the bull run after you have bought during the bear, whereas we have a lot of bull runs to come. There's what is know as the compounding effect of your bitcoin portfolio whereby, the quantity of your bitcoin in four years time will generate profits and when you don't sell, your new profits increases your bitcoin portfolio and that new size of your bitcoin portfolio will generate higher profits overtime. If you sell within a circle, you will miss that compounding value.

Those who are after small profits are traders and I also classify short term investors as traders too. Why are you in a rush to take little profit when you can just forget about taking profits and build your bitcoin investment to a higher level that you will enjoy the benefits in the future. Long-term bitcoin investment limits the risk of running at loss because the price of bitcoin will keep increasing overtime due to its value going up. What if you sell and the price of bitcoin didn't come down but rather went up and stayed there for some time, don't you think that you mighy spend the funds for other unforeseen challenges. Newbies should have the mindset of long term investment to enable them hodli for long and have good profits.

We must invest keeping in mind that Bitcoin is risky. Many times it is seen that we are too hasty in investing in Bitcoin. Many times it is seen that we become more confident in investing in Bitcoin due to which we even invest in Bitcoin with loans. Of course we have to keep one thing in mind that Bitcoin has market volatility so it is not acceptable to invest in Bitcoin investment by borrowing. In Bitcoin we must invest very carefully so that we don't lose capital, so investing in Bitcoin with debt I personally don't think is very acceptable because there is a fear of losing money and an urge to repay the loan. So we have to invest very carefully so that we can earn enough profit in investing in Bitcoin which will make us more interested in investing.

There was a thread where a member narrated how he sold his landed property to invest in Bitcoin. He was lucky to buy when the price was very low, and he was able to make a good amount of profit. Accessing a loan to invest in Bitcoin is a very bad option. The price of Bitcoin is unpredictable so I wonder how he intends to arrange the repayment plans. Pressure from creditors can make him sell his Bitcoin investment at a loss.

The best option remains investing what you can afford based on your income and making provisions for backup or emergency funds. Bitcoin is still in its early stage, there is no need to rush into Bitcoin investment if you don't have the financial backup. There will always be opportunities to invest in Bitcoin.

Exactly, the Dip is just an opportunity for an investor to accumulate or increase their portfolio according to their capacity because not everyone can be able to accumulate or increase their portfolio during the Dip. The Dip is not a must to accumulate more Bitcoin in ones portfolio but most people abuse it which result to panic and selling when investment is not due. Since Dip is not a one time something why putting oneself into pressure, why not relax if you don't have funds to increase your portfolio and secondly people who sees the Dip as a threat are investors who doesn't understand how the market works, I believe knowing how the market works will or is one of the thing that can bring success in our investment and not only in Bitcoin but outside...

How the discussion moved from buying bitcoin for long term holding to loan is what baffles me. The discussion have completely shifted to a new ground that is more or less a distraction. Why would someone doing DCA, for instance, consider taking a loan? The mere though of it simply means that the investor does not really have the cashflow needed to sustain a bitcoin investment for long term so investing in bitcoin may not be the best decision for him but to fix the cashflow. To succeed in bitcoin investment, there should be plans for emergency fund which will serves to keep the investment going when there is some development that requires money which was not seen or planned for in beginning. Without emergency funds, the investment is continuously exposed to risk. Taking a long is never in any of the process of healthy bitcoin investment.

The dip is an opportunity and a chance to buy more bitcoin but don't wait for it before to happen before investing . Waiting for a dip is simply means that you're timing the market of which there is no perfect time to invest in bitcoin than doing right away with the available funds using a DCA strategy which can help an investor buy and accumulate bitcoin at comfortable prices,  the approach can help reduce the stress of timing the market. It a gradual and a steady way to accumulate and build a Portfolio.

From the bolded part of your post it seems you have a wrong narrative of a holdler to be buying Bitcoin during the bear to be best option whereas a hodler prioritize buying Bitcoin regardless of the market conditions whether in bear or in bullish since the plan is to hold for a longer period of time, this can be misleading especially to newbies coming to the thread even thou the concepts of discussion is not  based on buying and selling Bitcoin but to buy and hold. it is the short term profits traders that prioritize buying Bitcoin in the bear market to sell the bull run. My point is that is that even in the bull run not every Bitcoin holder can be in profits but rather it is those who has a reasonable amount of Bitcoin and has held for a longer period of time possibly for about 4 to 10 years or even more.




You are right when you said it is good enough for anyone coming in to Bitcoin to have that mental preparedness so as to make an informed investment decisions but you are wrong when you said you have to make proper research to know when Bitcoin price is going down or going up, such criteria is  not necessary before any one could start his or her Bitcoin accumulation, why wasting time figuring to know when the price of Bitcoin is going down or going up get the fucking started with the dca strategy and figure out other things on your way up, forget about the price rather you should be thinking of increasing your holding. Being skeptical about Bitcoin is personal because Bitcoin has gone far beyond it's early stage.

You must mentally know that buy BTC in the bear run is the best decision for hodlers to take when buying BTC from the market, because it will help them to earn profits when they are about to sell BTC in the bull run, and that is where mentally hodlers feel like selling their BTC to accumulate profits. BTC has gone round in many societies and environments, and it has open many BTC users eyes to hodl their BTC till bull run occur because they know, that is the best season to make a reasonable profit from their investment and it has made many investors to alway pay attention to bull run whenever they are hodling their BTC.

In this aspect of long term hodling and short term hodling, it is the matter of choice because there are some people who are not after big profit and they prefer short term where they will be earning little profits, while there are some people who are after big profit to earn and their major strategy is long term hodling because that is the simple way they can earn big profits from their hodling.

What @ livingfree actually meant by jackpot is, when Bitcoin happens to experience a good price increase within the period an investor buys a certain amount. It's just like purchasing Bitcoin today at a price of $57K, and it went up to $67K the following week. To my best understanding, that's what I think he was trying to say.

And to add to what @ livingfree had said. I think it takes discipline to stick with the objectives and goals of Bitcoin investment. Because from a natural human perspective, if an investor gets/sees the price of Bitcoin rising to a very good level within a short period of making some purchases, there must surely be some element of thought that compels the investor to selling. I won't really call it greed. It's just the natural human nature to change with certain things around them. This is what makes us different from robots, that are designed to follow simple instructions.

So even if an investor has the objective of accumulating a certain amount on a weekly basis over a number of years and aim to meet a specific target by the end of that period, it will definitely require discipline to achieve these goals, because Bitcoin price increase can be very tempting. So I will continue to encourage all investors to have objectives and goals, and most especially have other sources of income that won't get us too attached to our investment because we already have something we can survive on.

The first thing to pay attention to when holding bitcoins is to prepare yourself mentally. BUY DIP AND HOLD by properly researching when bitcoin price is going down and when the price is going up. I think society and the environment still have a lot of skepticism about Bitcoin, which maybe puts us in a cycle when it comes to investing in Bitcoin. In fact, we are still in the early stages of discussing Bitcoin, which makes us skeptical about Holding Bitcoin. We need to gain step by step knowledge about Bitcoin and long term BTC investing strategy.

Maybe its just a self expression towards the profit they gain and call it as jackpot since gaining is means a win for them. Usually this is common word used by gambler so I assume that he is a gambler that's why he use those word on his statement.

But in bitcoin thing its really hard to spot a jackpot gains if we mean x1000 gain since gradual increase of price is usually happening with those coin. These kind of scenario happened on some shitcoins which we see pump and dump schemes is so common happening here. And people should avoid it if they don't want to experience painful defeat and maybe more better for to just go with bitcoin since provably that they will never get disappointed with this coin if they aim for long term.

Is there anything like jackpot on Bitcoin investment? Because I have not actually heard of it before, do you mind explaining it? Or is it when the Bitcoin price moves very higher as you are holding it that's why is considered to be jackpot? Well is the investors decision on what they intend for there investment because anybody who has made up there mind to invest on Bitcoin is not supposed to get too much attached with getting or wining a jackpot because there is a huge difference from a short term profit and long term profit because is obvious Long term will always supersede the short term.

I never like to think positively about short term bitcoin trading because it's pretty clear to me that the real profits are hidden in the long term accumulation of bitcoins. I may have spent some time to be able to understand what you mean.It is certainly logical that Bitcoin can be withdrawn if the spot price is above 25% if an investor has a decent sized holding. As per your advice I think it must be a sustained withdrawal trend as well as regular bitcoin accumulation so a logical suggestion to fill that void is to continue buying the DCA method uninterrupted.

Of course! An investor should build a rational holding in his long term Bitcoin journey where he will simultaneously accumulate Bitcoins in the DCA strategy and take advantage of a maximum 25% withdrawal from excess savings if the spot price is higher than the average purchase price.

most of the idea that tend to suggest that Bitcoin was created as a replacement to the fiat only shows that the individual has a wrong knowledge about Bitcoin and doesn't even understand the whole essence of Bitcoin creation. The best way to look at Bitcoin which an average person that's not still conversant with it purpose will easily understand is that Bitcoin is an international decentralized digital currency while fiat is a per nation centralized currency. the creation of the latter doesn't mean that the former has lost it value. It only suggest that with Bitcoin, you've been given full control over your money and that you've gotten the ability to make transaction accross different national boundaries at whatever time you want to with zero restriction of any sort.
the fact that he sees this idea he suggested as being smart is what even baffles me. Who makes an investment because he wants to use his investment as collateral for obtaining loan? If buying Bitcoin is all about such purpose, then most persons wouldn't consider investing in Bitcoin because it will totally look worthless. I don't even know why he's trying to relate the 21 Bitcoin in circulation to the reason one will go on to gamble with his investment by using it as a collateral for loans.

Owning Bitcoin is a precious previledge I wouldn't give away for any reason. It's reckless, careless and unwise to think that your accumulated Bitcoin has gotten less valuable to the extent of trading it in exchange for fiat which is far less reliable compared to Bitcoin.

It's very unfortunate that I have to read this.
Perhaps you are very far from reality, I don't know where you got your bitcoin orientation from but perhaps you're literally among the few marginalizing a fight against fiat which is never the intention of Satoshi nor bitcoiners because realistically we need fiat and bitcoin is not in anyway against fiat.

The intention was to create an alternative currency that works viz vice with fiat, bitcoin is never against the use of fiat but its a freedom currency which I prefer to call a paradigm, it's all about having full control over your finances which is the direct opposite to government desire, the governments does not appreciate anything that has do so much with privacy, freedom and that's why bitcoin is usually getting attacked by governments even though we see less of such case this days.

Bitcoin is a paradigm that has shifted our thoughts from only holding fiats in our banks without maximum security and privacy in our lives and also facing inflation problem but with the existence of bitcoin we now have full control over our assets or finances having your money in a self custodial wallet which absolutely freedom even though governments don't want such freedom to exist.

Back to your statement, apparently fiat is probably not going to disappear any time soon not even in the next centenary, so want you to realize how unrealistic that statement is but I do agree that bitcoin is best choice a beginner or anyone can afford at this point because its cheap when approached properly using DCA or any other method that might be convenient with he or she because if compared to assets or investments like real estate one will still have to save alot of money in order to purchase a building while at these same period he or she might be able to have accumulate at least a little stash of bitcoin that might in the process of saving even yield more interest even though I don't encourage short term investment.

No, no, no! Anyone using his bitcoin investment as a collateral is no worth regarding as smart because it makes no sense using your bitcoin to take loan on fiat. This is why we are advised to while planning on investing for a long time we also have a reliable income source if possible a stream's of income in order to avoid finding yourself in a messy situation where you would have to make such unwise decision because it's like telling an investor to stake his bitcoin for an altcoin.

I am with you, let's discourage people using Bitcoin as a collateral and the same goes for people using something as collateral to buy Bitcoin. If you want to buy Bitcoin, use how much you have and focus on DCA. Bitcoin won't run far away from us, it's always there in exchanges unless they start to limit the in flows and out flows of BTCs being bought on them but that's more unlikely to happen at this point.

Exactly.

Investments aren't mostly for short term although if you're in a jackpot and your investment pumped a lot in a short period, that's for you to decide.

But in the case of Bitcoin, this is better for long term holds.

First let’s start with the question how can someone be in debt and still has bitcoin in his wallet, the possible answers to this is the fact the person actually invested into bitcoin without fulfilling some basic requirements which I personally think is a very wrong idea. My first cateria is the funds set aside to invest into bitcoin must be an amount the investors can make do away with for a very long term this clearly shows that borrowed funds isn’t even acceptable as an investor. Secondly the investors most also have extra funds set aside for emergency.  

All this isn’t a requirement but I personally viewed it the with this one Can easily be patient in holding. Imagine having lots of bitcoin and then still be in a heavy debt which is due. If I ever find investors like this my advice is for them to taken a hit and then liquidate some of their holdings to pay off the debt. The choice of even using it as collateral is not welcome with me because holding to it means you’re still at the verge of losing it all why not just pay off the debt and then hold the rest or start accumulating gradually again. Bitcoin is here to actually better the financial system of the world through decentralization and many more features lacking in fiat but many people treat it as though it shouldn’t be spent even when it is for a very important purpose which is a bad habit to me. Long term holding is what we all advice but when it is only bitcoin that can save you out from some difficulties then it is best you make use of it