Topic: Buying Bitcoin on margin - this could explode the market (and bank accounts) - page 2. (Read 2796 times)
June 09, 2015, 01:38:53 PM
that in terms of economy its not very good and not goona happen thers corrections soo the more capital in number of BTC makers the rarety go lower and the power of btc not rise much but the mining diff make rarity goes a bit higher soo the btc value may come to a big point now and the need for btc its becoming big and this pormotion of tthe coin makes it goo even higher thits its just a spark on btc but may rise a bit im not just hoping am getting every day more sure the btc its not gonna explode the price but porgrssivly goe higher into value relativity in FIAT
June 09, 2015, 01:30:11 PM
The losses are definitely bigger. You're borrowing bitcoin to trade. Therefore, if the bitcoin goes down, you need to dip into your pocket to buy back the bitcoin so you can return it.
Yep, you can end up owing money to he exchange (the money the exchange gave you to do the leverage).This is in my opinion nuts unless you want to take a big risk. Poloniex also got margin trading recently (and as a result got kicked by the Fincen to have more a restrict withdrawing policy).
I wouldn't say it's the biggest risk, but if you are good at working at tracking trends in trading, you can definitely make a considerable amount of money. Being able to grow your holdings by 10x or 20x means you can really do some great work after a year or two.
June 09, 2015, 12:47:44 PM
it's nothing more than a secure loan, that exchange give to you, then you use it to make more profit, but if the price don't move you simply give back that loan, so with a 200 deposit and x10 leverage, if the price remain 200, you will end with zero profit
but if the price will raise to 210 you will get +100 usd(10 x 10) plus another $10 from your 200 deposit, so 300 in the end
essentially a thing like this aims to encourage trading
So if the price drops 10 with 10x leverage you got 90 of your deposit left and lost 110. The profits are bigger and so are the loses.
If the value of bitcoin carries on like this +5-10 till -5-10 this is going to be an awesome way to make a bit more with day trading.
yeah there big gain but also big loss, but if you're a good traders and really confidant with your moves on the market, you should definitely go for it
also something like this comes in handy when the stability is greatly increased like now, where the price fluctuate between two close numbers and you need big money to gain something weighty
June 09, 2015, 12:41:05 PM
The losses are definitely bigger. You're borrowing bitcoin to trade. Therefore, if the bitcoin goes down, you need to dip into your pocket to buy back the bitcoin so you can return it.
Yep, you can end up owing money to he exchange (the money the exchange gave you to do the leverage).This is in my opinion nuts unless you want to take a big risk. Poloniex also got margin trading recently (and as a result got kicked by the Fincen to have more a restrict withdrawing policy).
June 09, 2015, 11:56:30 AM
The losses are definitely bigger. You're borrowing bitcoin to trade. Therefore, if the bitcoin goes down, you need to dip into your pocket to buy back the bitcoin so you can return it.
June 09, 2015, 11:51:56 AM
it's nothing more than a secure loan, that exchange give to you, then you use it to make more profit, but if the price don't move you simply give back that loan, so with a 200 deposit and x10 leverage, if the price remain 200, you will end with zero profit
but if the price will raise to 210 you will get +100 usd(10 x 10) plus another $10 from your 200 deposit, so 300 in the end
essentially a thing like this aims to encourage trading
So if the price drops 10 with 10x leverage you got 90 of your deposit left and lost 110. The profits are bigger and so are the loses.
If the value of bitcoin carries on like this +5-10 till -5-10 this is going to be an awesome way to make a bit more with day trading.
June 09, 2015, 11:36:42 AM
I don't get it ... Say that leverage is 10x and I deposited €200 , and bought 10 bitcoins using 10x leverage, and I withdrew those bitcoins, what will happen? 
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Once you sell the BTC (or at some defined time after you've taken the loan) you have to pay it back. So the principal of your original trade (minus what you deposited) goes back to the bank/firm. You pay a small fee and then keep the gains off all that you borrowed + deposited. You're getting most of the return off someone elses money.
Physical delivery or not is dependent on how you or the firm you work with structures the trade, but it could be either.
It's great when the trade goes in your favor. If the trade doesn't go in your favor you can blow yourself up pretty quickly.
But if I have deposited €200 and withdrew 10 bitcoin, I might never come back to this exchange, so I guess they have to limit the amount of withdraw to be less than my deposit, e.g. I could withdraw maximum 1 bitcoin in this case, the rest 9 stays in their database, waiting to be wiped out by a margin call
I would be weird if you could withdraw more then you actually funded your account for, so should be somewhere like the way you explained.
I quess you cannot withdraw untill you paid of your margin part, so you might not even be able to withdraw the one bitcoin you funded untill your margin call is wiped out and youre back to zero on that.
So it is only a number game in the platform to wipe out users more quickly, like those Forex bucket shop. Gamblers like it
it's nothing more than a secure loan, that exchange give to you, then you use it to make more profit, but if the price don't move you simply give back that loan, so with a 200 deposit and x10 leverage, if the price remain 200, you will end with zero profit
but if the price will raise to 210 you will get +100 usd(10 x 10) plus another $10 from your 200 deposit, so 310(200 from your deposit with a net profit of 110) in the end
essentially a thing like this aims to encourage trading
June 09, 2015, 10:55:38 AM
I don't get it ... Say that leverage is 10x and I deposited €200 , and bought 10 bitcoins using 10x leverage, and I withdrew those bitcoins, what will happen?
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Once you sell the BTC (or at some defined time after you've taken the loan) you have to pay it back. So the principal of your original trade (minus what you deposited) goes back to the bank/firm. You pay a small fee and then keep the gains off all that you borrowed + deposited. You're getting most of the return off someone elses money.
Physical delivery or not is dependent on how you or the firm you work with structures the trade, but it could be either.
It's great when the trade goes in your favor. If the trade doesn't go in your favor you can blow yourself up pretty quickly.
But if I have deposited €200 and withdrew 10 bitcoin, I might never come back to this exchange, so I guess they have to limit the amount of withdraw to be less than my deposit, e.g. I could withdraw maximum 1 bitcoin in this case, the rest 9 stays in their database, waiting to be wiped out by a margin call
I would be weird if you could withdraw more then you actually funded your account for, so should be somewhere like the way you explained.
I quess you cannot withdraw untill you paid of your margin part, so you might not even be able to withdraw the one bitcoin you funded untill your margin call is wiped out and youre back to zero on that.
So it is only a number game in the platform to wipe out users more quickly, like those Forex bucket shop. Gamblers like it
June 09, 2015, 10:46:46 AM
I don't get it ... Say that leverage is 10x and I deposited €200 , and bought 10 bitcoins using 10x leverage, and I withdrew those bitcoins, what will happen?
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Once you sell the BTC (or at some defined time after you've taken the loan) you have to pay it back. So the principal of your original trade (minus what you deposited) goes back to the bank/firm. You pay a small fee and then keep the gains off all that you borrowed + deposited. You're getting most of the return off someone elses money.
Physical delivery or not is dependent on how you or the firm you work with structures the trade, but it could be either.
It's great when the trade goes in your favor. If the trade doesn't go in your favor you can blow yourself up pretty quickly.
But if I have deposited €200 and withdrew 10 bitcoin, I might never come back to this exchange, so I guess they have to limit the amount of withdraw to be less than my deposit, e.g. I could withdraw maximum 1 bitcoin in this case, the rest 9 stays in their database, waiting to be wiped out by a margin call
I would be weird if you could withdraw more then you actually funded your account for, so should be somewhere like the way you explained.
I quess you cannot withdraw untill you paid of your margin part, so you might not even be able to withdraw the one bitcoin you funded untill your margin call is wiped out and youre back to zero on that.
June 09, 2015, 10:31:46 AM
I don't get it ... Say that leverage is 10x and I deposited €200 , and bought 10 bitcoins using 10x leverage, and I withdrew those bitcoins, what will happen?
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Once you sell the BTC (or at some defined time after you've taken the loan) you have to pay it back. So the principal of your original trade (minus what you deposited) goes back to the bank/firm. You pay a small fee and then keep the gains off all that you borrowed + deposited. You're getting most of the return off someone elses money.
Physical delivery or not is dependent on how you or the firm you work with structures the trade, but it could be either.
It's great when the trade goes in your favor. If the trade doesn't go in your favor you can blow yourself up pretty quickly.
But if I have deposited €200 and withdrew 10 bitcoin, I might never come back to this exchange, so I guess they have to limit the amount of withdraw to be less than my deposit, e.g. I could withdraw maximum 1 bitcoin in this case, the rest 9 stays in their database, waiting to be wiped out by a margin call
June 08, 2015, 09:51:37 PM
I don't get it ... Say that leverage is 10x and I deposited €200 , and bought 10 bitcoins using 10x leverage, and I withdrew those bitcoins, what will happen?
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Once you sell the BTC (or at some defined time after you've taken the loan) you have to pay it back. So the principal of your original trade (minus what you deposited) goes back to the bank/firm. You pay a small fee and then keep the gains off all that you borrowed + deposited. You're getting most of the return off someone elses money.
Physical delivery or not is dependent on how you or the firm you work with structures the trade, but it could be either.
It's great when the trade goes in your favor. If the trade doesn't go in your favor you can blow yourself up pretty quickly.
June 08, 2015, 08:02:47 PM
well margin trades loan happened at first on poloniex ,they allow you to get a loan and those btc can only be spent on the exchange cant cashout it... and yes always a concern since btc can easy go down soo they set from 2 to 60 days max lending time and the person who gets the loan can repay as cancel it anytime paying the fee from the loan.About bitcoin here at margin well can be a lost from both sides but can easy turns into a way to both profit as some experts traders can get in and make it sucess
June 08, 2015, 06:47:10 PM
I don't get it ... Say that leverage is 10x and I deposited €200 , and bought 10 bitcoins using 10x leverage, and I withdrew those bitcoins, what will happen?
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
Or, you are just buying BTC/EUR pair like in a Forex bucket shop, no physical delivery of either euro or bitcoin
June 08, 2015, 01:11:37 PM
I remember reading somewhere that the rich get rich investing other people's money. Trading on margin is the same thing. If you've got a strategy that is working for you, being able to add 20x leverage to that allows you to grow your holdings that much more. Then when you pay it back, your profits are greater.
10% of 1BTC is cool.
10% of 20BTC is better.
10% of 200BTC is even better.
10% of 1BTC is cool.
10% of 20BTC is better.
10% of 200BTC is even better.
June 08, 2015, 07:38:42 AM
I'm not super experiences trader or something but margin trading on bitcoin seems like total danger madness for me..and for sure nothing, what can somehow boost the market..
any trading is dangerous. Some play on big but rare profits other play on constant but small profits. You can lose your bitcoins one way or another.
June 08, 2015, 04:07:23 AM
I'm not super experiences trader or something but margin trading on bitcoin seems like total danger madness for me..and for sure nothing, what can somehow boost the market..
June 08, 2015, 03:44:34 AM
I am not convinced that this will have a large impact on the price of bitcoins. Also margin trading is dangerous. I never do it because I am not confidant enough in my abilities to not get called. Maybe some day!
if many unexperience players start to do it, they will only burn themselves, and we would get a new line up of people with high debit, and the very nature of leverage is encouragin those that can't cover their asses, because for the others, there is no need for it, they can burrow from themselves
June 07, 2015, 04:43:39 PM
I am not convinced that this will have a large impact on the price of bitcoins. Also margin trading is dangerous. I never do it because I am not confidant enough in my abilities to not get called. Maybe some day!
June 07, 2015, 04:38:43 PM
I don't follow your thinking here - do you mean sell short or sell the bitcoin soon after buying it on margin?
Of course you dont, you are not a typical day trader type it seems
It's a question of how many traders are using margin for short term transactions vs. long term transactions, or being able to finance hodl positions.
That would be a question for you, basically Im standing with that there will be more people that use it for quick swing instead. No one is holding things that they obtain via loan, the risk is far greater than expected profit.
Good thing that you know stuff about daily trading and I was a daily trader before so I know what most daily traders are thinking
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each time you buy then that means that it will be each time that you sell as well.
More importantly, it's naive to think that giving greater access to supply (i.e., increasing the margin % available to investors) will have no effect on the price volatility simply because "what's bought must eventually be sold".
Actually you are wrong on this, Im saying that it have no effect on the demands and not on the price volatility
As for the mortgage stuff I was forgetting about mortgage anyway, thanks for pointing me to that but as a matter of fact I do think people are mortgaging because they need a house not because they are getting a loan for future investment or so ( I may be wrong on this)
June 07, 2015, 01:43:54 PM
I don't follow your thinking here - do you mean sell short or sell the bitcoin soon after buying it on margin?
Of course you dont, you are not a typical day trader type it seems
It's a question of how many traders are using margin for short term transactions vs. long term transactions, or being able to finance hodl positions.
That would be a question for you, basically Im standing with that there will be more people that use it for quick swing instead. No one is holding things that they obtain via loan, the risk is far greater than expected profit.
First, I think you should think about what you're writing a little bit longer. Second, I know plenty about day trading. And I know plenty about investing on margin. Margin is not required to be a day trader and day trading does not require margin...this is an important point that I feel you're missing.
People hold things (investments) obtained via loan all the time, ever heard of a mortgage? 99% of homeowners obtain their home with a loan. I realize investing has higher potential returns in a shorter amount of time than real estate, but that doesn't mean that all users of margin for stock/btc purchases are looking for a 48 hour return.
More importantly, it's naive to think that giving greater access to supply (i.e., increasing the margin % available to investors) will have no effect on the price volatility simply because "what's bought must eventually be sold".
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