Topic: BW 14nm Miners Update - page 3. (Read 8959 times)

For the residents, the price is from $0.09 to $0.2 per Wh. It depends on the usage. If it is over 4800 kWh per year, the price is 0.2$.

And lawsuits, lets not forget the lawsuits


As a very broad average, sure. There are higher and lower places although most of the lower places have been entirely filled now.

what is the price of electricity in China...?.. 0.05$ per kw..

Nothing that I have heard.  Last we knew they had managed to get new NM chip which is a decent deal.  But they reported it miss specced and came in around Avalon 6/S7 efficiency.

Also they kept a TON of these internally for their cloud.  A few made it to market I think price was high, but it was VERY few that made it to small customers. I think I just saw one re seller with it.   But there could have been more I just did not see.

Ant new news on the June release?

 

Also US we sadly don't have good track record for mining companies making the miners.  If we would have had a great consumer asic manufactuer on big scale, likely would have given us some edge.  But what have we had big scale, BFL? I mean BFL is biggest one I can think of and we all know how it went.

So China kinda wins on manufacture with having so many companies making it all in one place. And also having places with low electricity price many of the miners will never leave China.

 In the number, no.

 In the SCALE, there's at least one and I'm pretty sure multiple - MegaBigPower and Zoomhash both run some serious-size farms in Washington.
 They're just pretty quiet about that in recent years.


 I DON'T know of MBP is still anywhere near 5% of the TOTAL Bitcoin hashrate any more, but that was their target and they were mightly close to it for a long time.

 Zoomhash seems to be more diversified - the A2 gear they were selling off 'till a week or two ago seems to have come from their farm, as the ones I bought some months back were shipped out of the Wenatchee area. No clue if their farm is anywhere near as big as MBP.

Sad, but so true.

We here in the USA decided it would be a good idea if we got rid of all technical industry and manufacturing that made our country great at one time and let all that tech development occur over seas.

Plus there are no large mining farms in the USA to the scale or in the number that exist elsewhere.

Innosilicon has already announced miners due in June/July timeframe on the A4 (the one they wanted partners on 'cause they weren't sure it was worth doing, NOT the A3 they apparently didn't want or need partners on) - and given they stated they expected to have BOTH out at the same time, I'd be watching them VERY closely indeed.

 On the down side, the last announcement that included date estimates on the A4 also showed it to be a fair bit less efficient than their original estimate - implies that the A3 might also have ended up in the S7/B11 efficiency ballpark, which is NOT a good place to be right before the halfing on a new unit....

MegaBigPower has been a Bitfury shop/partner since early days.


21.inc has a "vision" - but ghods only knows what it really is.

KNC has ... lawsuits.

Spoondoolies has ... a bad deal on their merger that seems to be well along the way to killing them.

Avalons has ... no committment to 14/16nm at all as of a few months ago, likely they won't even try 'till it's too late to matter.

BW has ... an apparently in-production first-gen 14nm miner that is too little, too late - barely more efficient than the best 28nm miners - and an announced "second-gen" chip that is supposedly competative with the Bitfury chip, but a few months off if they don't have any issues getting it to production. If they didn't have LKetc backing them I'd be about ready to write them off - but LKetc has a track history of delivering reliable miners.

Innosilicon has ... an annouced Scrypt chip that's a game-changer, an announcement that they were working on a next-gen SHA256 chip but no specs for it, and quite a few questions about what, when, and how much. They're still out there though, and they're the ONLY major player left that has a business OTHER THAN cryptocoin mining to generate money for them (there's a REASON they're the only folks in the industry that never bothered with pre-orders).

Bitmain has ... dwindling sales on the S7, a large mine that's still profitable, a fat wallet from their sales of the S7 and earlier miners, and is working on a 14/16nm gen chip that could show up around the halfing, but they're pretty closed mouth so no certainties there on what and when - but I'm CERTAIN they will continue to be a player for at least one more generation.


BitFury has ... a demonstrated working high-efficiency chip, farms, and partners, but a lot of questions about "when" and "how much" remaining.


 Who wins?

 Ask me again in 2 years or so.

 8-)

Like it or not the truth is BTC is small not big and the oil or gold or silver is 3/4 gone come July.

So 21 mill x .25 = 5.25 million coins

At 400 usd we are talking 2.1 billion dollars left in the ether of cyberspace

So why should I spend good money to get the remaining coins.
Most companies do a calculation to figure an idea or model for building the gear.

The truth is for most companies it does not make sense to build the gear.

Let's say I have deep deep deep deep pockets. I want to spend 1,000,000 for chips and have  someone like sidehack build a lot of 400 watt 4th miners.
The viability to do this and break even is really difficult.  Plus no one will sell the chips to me. So where do I go bitmaintech or Avalon. 

I don't have 15,000,000 to build a chip from start and if I did the chip factories will still make me wait to make my chips.

I think this shows what sweet deals they are able to find on electricity.  It's hard to fault these companies for going with China, as much as I would like it to be more distributed. 

Think they can drive a semi from factory to plant with tons of new miners.  So cut down costs there.  They are saving costs and getting cheap electricity.  I don't see it stopping unless electricity prices go up.... then things change.  But a LOT of these business's have already made the initial investments and are just replacing gear at this point.

The question is, why have no large mining farms in places like the USA designed their own mining ASICs.   Where do they expect to get their miners from if they don't develop them themselves?  No-one is going to sell them the latest miners if the manufacturer can make more money mining themselves.  

Why has 21.inc no viable miner despite raising over a hundred million dollars? Are there any large miners in Washington State capable of designing a miner?

KNC in Sweden has shown it can be done.  Bitfury in central Europe, Spondoolies in Israel have also done it.

 

James Dangelo has an interesting theory on the mining situation:


https://buyabitcoin.com.au/blog/james-dangelo-bitcoin-mining-centralizing-worst-possible-places-china/

(The interview he does on the podcast Bitcoin Uncensored is pretty good, Chris Derose and Junseth do some tough interviews)

Here is a challenge to any company like BW that is trying to put on the persona that they support bitcoin decentralization. Sell all your gear to nations other than China FIRST to even the hash rate out. There are plenty of people ready to buy so the ball is in your court BW.

yeah  I was looking at f2pool stats  300 ph  and 270 ph is located in China  .  This is a problem I figure 60% of the worlds gear is located in China maybe more.

I really looked into f2pools stats  and of the 270ph in China 200ph is with big miners and 70 ph is with small miners

Assuming  Antpool is the same  more then 550 ph of the two are in china and at least 400ph are big farms

not count BW's cloud so more then 650ph in gear is in china

Selling out all your gear to Chinese farms is far from "committed to decentralization of Bitcoin mining"

They have not released this on the ones that are "sold out".  The original ones were next gen chips, but around S7/A6 specced on efficiency.  They fell pretty short but were a new NM which is still impressive.

These could be a lot closer to the B series announced specs from long ago as they have had a month or so.  We likely will not know though with internal use and big buyers getting them, unless a big buyer sells a few.

Keep in mind that BW.com is part-owned by LKetc, which has a solid record of producing reliable SHA256 miners (and appear to have had a hand in, or inspired, the design of many of the Innosilicon miners for both SHA256 AND Scrypt).

They're NOT just cloud.


 They announced specs months ago, ballpark .25 watts/GH as I recall - or about the same as the S7.
 They also announced a second-gen 14nm chip that they said would be in production in a few months, with specs fairly close to the BitFury chip of videos fame.


 With that said, though...



 ... you already did, with your B11 and B12 and in-process B16 crowdfunding stuff, though those weren't a standard pre-order setup.