Topic: Campaign managers acting as Escrow - page 2. (Read 963 times)

My understanding is the case that happened as experienced by: @julerz12, a very large settlement between @YoMix & @[banned mixer], because, they both own the funds and are entrusted with escrow/campaigns to julerz12, that's the main point of the problem, we know what's to lose here is the two of them.

Regarding the payout for campaign participants in this week, i think julerz12 should be responsible for it, even though the fund has been hacked/lost etc, Next, julerz12 can pause the campaign and finalize workaround and continuation with @YoMix & @[banned mixer].

Tags, flags or the like are allowed and legal, but it's better if we hear directly from @YoMix & @[banned mixer], because what's happening right now is based on the carelessness of the escrow users themselves and loss of funds, yes, that's understood, but at this point, the escrow and the owner of the funds have no negative responses except: @YoMix, who knows there is a meeting point in this case, if there is indeed no meeting point, maybe something will happen to julerz12, this is just my opinion, what is certain is that I am not taking sides anywhere, neutral and complete the carelessness that causes loss, not intentional, there are exceptions.....

Trusting him because of his past time in the forum but with the accident, nobody can verify it.

Only time can tell and if he repay the lost fund to two projects, he can reclaim his reputation. If he runs away, we will know it soon. Time will tell and currently it is too early to say it is an accident or an intentional scam. I believe we will know the truth soon as if he scammed them, he will not return any cent to two projects and he will not care about negative feedback, trust, flags and pressure from forum members at all.

We can not verify anything because if his computer was actually compromised, perhaps the hacker is using his account and can sign any message from his staked address too.

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In the past, kenzawak hacked (again). After two or three times of hack, the user abandoned the forum. Was his account really hacked or something else?

Oh my, I remember that debacle very well.  Even though it had nothing to do with me, I remember posting a few times in the big thread that was started up about it.  I hadn't been a member of the forum for all that long, so I was naive to all of the scamming taking place and still thought green trust meant you could really trust any member who had it.

I'm not buying the story julerz12 is trying to sell.  He has a lot of positive feedback, but having a large sum of money entrusted to you can be too tempting to some people--just like MasterP, just like those charity scammers, and probably more than a dozen additional examples that can probably be dug up from the bottom of the toilet whence these fuckers come from.  I'm reading a lot of posts in support of julerz12, and everyone is entitled to believe what they want of course, but it seems even YoMix thinks he scammed them.  I happen to agree with that.

Based on other bounty manager experience like @Hhampuz he has back up or recovering money when something bad happen with his current active signature service campaign. Actually several time I saw he pay with his own money due several campaign service not filled fund after end weeks.

Can't expected about @julerz12 wallet was hacked and he loss fund, but for preparing bad thing later need have back up money and campaign can running well without any trouble yet. I hope you can learned more here and be better for next time opportunity become as Bounty Manager campaign, but @julerz12 have build with his reputation early.

Being a campaign manager + escrow service is not easy, so I will never try to be both because I know the risk is far greater than just being a participant in a bounty campaign.


The economic conditions of the Philippines are not much different from Indonesia, so $5000 is a huge amount there and here (my country), julerz12 said he would take full responsibility and even intend to sell his 2 motorbikes to repay the lost escrow funds. he is a good person, I hope this incident that happened to him does not make him down and discouraged.

Of course, he couldn't just apologize and make an announcement for the loss of funds and continue to maintain good reputation and management. When he received any amount of funds, it meant that he had the responsibility to secure the funds without any problem. Any thing that happens to the funds such as hacking or loss of access to the wallet must always be the responsibility of the owner of the wallet, and in this case it is the manager who also calls himself the escrow.

After all not all managers have an emergency budget to keep their management running smoothly should an issue like this occur, so it's one that managers have to consider how much money they can afford to lose if a hack or such occurs. I mean, it's for security and smooth management.

In situations like this, it's important for individuals to understand that being a campaign manager or an escrow carries a lot of responsibility, and they should be fully committed to being transparent and accountable for their actions. This includes taking every precaution to ensure the safety and security of the funds, as well as being proactive in identifying and addressing any issues that may arise. Whether they're just managing a campaign or safeguarding funds, they must be fully accountable for their actions, particularly when it comes to handling other people's money. It's important for them to have a plan in place for how to handle any potential problems or issues that may arise, such as how to return funds to their rightful owners in the event of a hack or other breach of security. It's not enough to just have good intentions, actions and practical measures need to be taken to ensure the safety of the funds, and to show that the responsibilities as a campaign manager or an escrow are being taken seriously.

Escrow in the sense is third party who is a party that secures funds in transaction between parties A & B. So this third party is tasked with securing funds that have been agreed between parties A & B and usually users who act as third parties can actually trusted. I know some managers can also be an escrow for other transacting parties, but if the manager receives and keeps the campaign budget in his wallet then I don't think he is acting as an escrow. It's a kind of campaign budget entrusted to the manager in advance.

It is obviously his responsibility to secure all those budgets, and if he makes a mistake that makes all those budgets disappear then he has to cover all those losses. I don't blame julerz12 entirely for what happened, but it was a disgrace in the way it secured the campaign budget. He has to pay for it, of course because it will only affect his reputation as a manager in the short and long term.

Since the last day, I am watching all this hack-related stuff and conversations between different managers and other senior members. As I liked what Hhampuz said that now Julerz needs to be strong at this moment as Julerz12 is trustworthy what he needs is time. If he stands out of this and somehow managed to fix this then I think there will be a boost in his reputation. Hope it won't affect any further signature projects. It's a hard time for Julerz12 and I think the community should support him if he proves his innocence for now matter is quite stuck in between.

Has any of them ever provided any proof of fund? I did not see any in an open discussion. I remember Hhampuz paid out of his own pocket, you also did although I can not remember how much was the USD amount at the times. Royce77 also did, not long ago (I think he was the latest campaign manager who was in trouble until julerz12) and as far as I can remember it was something $3,200 or $6,200.

You must remember bitcointalk charity? The mismanagement of fund. Did the escrow ever made it correct? I doubt he had enough to cover it up.

As long as any of them provide any proof of fund, it does not matter if the person is sole escrow provider or a campaign manager who is keeping custody of the marketing budget, it's difficult to tell that they are capable of recovering the lose from their own pocket, it does not matter how reputable, or old you are in the forum. If the accident with julerz12 was not happening then wouldn't we think that he have enough money to resolve if anything happen with the escrow coins? We would.

When someone is opening an escrow service, or managing a campaign with holding marketing budget, depending on their past history we are trusting them. This is a fact.

But these service providers should have the moral obligation that they have the financial solvency to refund or resolve with their clients when anything bad happens with them or their reputation will effect. You are securing someone else money but at the end you are actually giving a false definition of security. That's not supposed to be the meaning escrow.

It will not be the first time, but it is not very common.


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Yes, he is responsible for these funds. If he loses them he has to bear the consequences, even if it is in this case as it seems due to negligence and not because he stole them himself. At the moment he has one negative tag and two neutral ones reflecting the situation, when not even 24 hours have passed. I think both tags are acceptable. Neutral which will change to negative if he does not pay what he owes or conversely, negative which will change to neutral if he pays.

Actually, it's not a problem if the campaign manager will act as Escrow if that is the agreement between the company and the campaign manager. That only says that he trusted the campaign manager, on the case of yomix, it cannot be denied that Julerz is a reputable campaign manager and I believe it already happened before that he hold funds for the campaign and there was no problem with it as the campaign runs smoothly.

It's just said that this thing happens, whether it's his fault or due to his negligence, the amount lost is still his responsibility. No need to point fingers whatsoever, just accept the responsibility and pay for the amount that was stolen. In the end, it will boil out to the reputation of the manager, if he will go dark and forget his responsibility, then he will get red tag and will never be a campaign manager again or an escrow if that's part of his services. Imagine, it's the future opportunity that will be lost which will be bigger compared to the amount that was stolen.

If i may understand something very important here about an escrow
From above said, escrow is a third party that holds a funds between two parties in other to initiates and carry out a smooth and fair deal.
Now campaign manager has no right to use himself as an escrow provider rather using another person, if he used another to stand as an escrow provider i wouldn't have think all the funds could have been stolen from him. One important thing about bringing an escrow from the project owners is that, if anything happens or fund was stolen even any hacked, it may not get the campaign manager affected rather it's between project owner and escrow provider. So definitely if any hack occurs escrow provider would be liable for the back payment, so in case of julerz12 he would be the one to pay since he also stood as an escrow.
Now to prove innocent he has accepted to pay back, so no tag should be given to him all less he violate of not paying as promised before he could get tagged. 

That's why forum user should think twice if they really want to become a campaign manager since fucked up moments like this sometimes happen.

Campaign management is not always about getting moneys from the work you've done with certain companies, it has big obligation so make sure you have capabilities to pay on your own pocket when moments like this happen.

In case of Julerz I doubt he can pay that since as he said that amount hacked is to big in their country already.

Exactly!
Reputation and trust is not enough to start offering escrow services and what happened to julerz is just an example why it's not. If you are going to escrow a deal then you need to have enough money in reserve to cover the escrowed amount and repay the affected party in case things go wrong.
A camapain manager doesn't necessary need to escrow the campaign funds. He can hire someone else for that job.

using this logic, maybe 2 users are qualified to be campaign managers cause I don't think many of the old or new managers are holding thousands these days.

It does not matter if you are a signature campaign manager or a sole escrow provider. If you are holding someone else money, it's your responsibility. You can not make an excuse. If you lose the money then loan from bank and repay but you have to repay. If you do not have the back up money to repay then you should not hold someone else money before anything else.

This comment is not about a particular incident but just a generic personal opinion.

There will always be a debate about whether signature campaign managers should hold the funds or whether an escrow should be used to facilitate the process in order to mitigate any potential scams. Having an escrow does not necessarily mean a scam cannot take place but it adds a further of protection. It can backfire if the escrow decides to steal but there is always a risk no matter which way these matters of business are conducted.

Has there really been others of this nature because, I clearly am unaware but, its bad for sure.
The purpose of escrow is always in the interest of campaign participants and then the manager but in this, it seems the manager got it wrong and for all we know, his words are all we've got and prove of finds being a moved for which, you can't exactly tell what's going on.
If its good enough for the company being served, then it might be okay although, it doesn't make the manager any less responsible for what was kept in his safe keeping.

I won't discard his excuse to have come by some mistakes this round. Its not his first time managing a campaign, bounty and signature so, this time won't be the time that we right off all the goods his done on the forum. 2017 is such a long time to have existed and throw it all away with $5k. Let's be open as we hope for more details on the unfolding case.

You have full responsibility, so you must do your best for the "SAFETY" of the escrow fund. A fatal error when you use a hot wallet as an escrow fund store and your carelessness does not install additional antivirus. I feel it will be related to malware infiltrating and stealing your hot wallet access password.

Hot Wallet will never be safe if you don't think about additional protection, you really have to learn from the mistakes that are happening now to be more concerned with security.

The users of this forum are smart people, so you won't get red paint as long as you can be responsible and solve these problems to restore your reputation. Take a breath first and calm your mind, then start solving these problems one by one.