Topic: Can Bitcoin maximalism be defeated in the reality of adoption? (Read 1504 times)

1. Scaling not just speed. Millions of txns per second between billions of users. Bitcoin and LN can't get do what without being centralized, if ever.

2. Not just buying goods for $10 - $1000, but buying micropayment stuff at $0.001 - $1. Normally users per subscriptions than hassling with micropayments, but subscriptions are not the pyschological way game monetization works. Read up on Farmville's monetization model.

3. Speed is critical in-app. Imagine a game and you want to buy something and continue. Your friends are online and in the game. You don't have a second to wait.

Etc..

Totally different markets than NewEgg, Amazon, etc..

Virtual commerce will end up dwarfing tangible commerce eventually.

@Spoetnik

Delusional , Maybe .  
Time can be my Judge & Jury.

At my age, I am just happy to be breathing.
I point out that many Alts are faster and less centralized and more energy efficient than BTC.

When you go into a Car Dealership , are they only selling 1 type of car or Many Different types.
Different people have different needs their is No One Size Fits All.

So just as there are different cars, different MP3 Players, different clothes, different computers, different houses,
there is no alternative but for there to be multiple coins with different specs, sorry crypto will not be able to diverge from a proven historical pattern.  
Coinbase adding Alts for Direct Fiat pairing is just the beginning.

Nice Try, better luck next time.

 

well a couple weeks ago it was the promo that expired...newegg only lets you pay for BTC on their items (not 3rd party) if BTC does NOT come up as an option
you can go back a page and see it not highlighted...if you do find one of neweggs sales per say...it will show up as an option. This also may skip over BTC if you
have your credit card setup as you main payment. you may have to back a page and look

anyway the way it was a couple weeks ago when i talked to a newegg rep

later

I don't see the speed in transactions with a customer and say Tigerdirect, Newegg or Overstock
being some big issue that needs fixing.. *desperately*

What if they speed up Bitcoins transaction speed somehow down the line ?

(in other words BTC was fixed up to accommodate the need)

Look at what works now.. then if it works why would they CHANGE ?
I thought many also use BTC directly too.. not all use a middle man service.

I also just checked Newegg and i think they cancelled support
http://www.newegg.com/bitcoin
So i don't know anymore..

But i do KNOW that the other ways of paying online BEFORE BITCOIN *still work*
Take a Credit Card or Paypal etc all those are slower than Bitcoin and...
The world is entirely content using them and have little complaints about payment speed.

I just don't see a desperate NEED for faster transactions when waiting day or so works fine.
What will be the game changer is how the CHANGE is done i think..
We all know life evolves and tech advances on in time so i expect change eventually.
But how painful and hard is it ?
Retailers like i mentioned are going to want a seamless pain free experience changing.
I am surprised they adopted BTC to the extent they already did because of the complicated nature
in explaining what Bitcoin is & how it works to Computer noobs.

And don't forget guys there is a lot of stupid people out there.
I have a room-mate who was asking questions of me while trying to use a PC
and he was asking me which button to press on the mouse..
he was hitting the wrong buttons the whole time and holding it wrong ROFL
So telling them what BTC is or an Altcoin will have to come with explaining HOW IT WORKS !
And if they don't get it.. they will not feel secure using it and there for it will not get adopted.

I think this is an existing barrier to Crypto right now.. TRUST !

@kiklo
I see a lot of comments from you advocating Altcoin(s)
You always seem to be pushing them as in "plural" <-- more than one.
You always seem to be trying to forecast that the world needs tons of shitcoins.
And i am not buying it sorry.. i think you are delusional sorry LOL

@iamnotback
I do like your ideas & goals and i think we are on the same page with most things..
So i wish you luck with your projects etc eh.
My comments here are not for arguing but to just throw some food for thought in there
..perspectives

Another guy sent me a PM concerned about my life.

I think the powers-that-be would love to have someone accelerate the lurch towards digital currency. I think they always think they can take control, because they think the power-law distribution of wealth is inviolable. They might be correct.

And any way, it will surely appear as though I am giving them what they want.

So I say relax and expect smooth sailing.

The biggest concern should be that I am typing here and am all words. Because implementation is the first and greatest challenge.

Bye, bye for now.

To be more concise, despite the protestations of BTC supporters, they don't really know if BTC's first mover advantage will hold up. For this reason, this is why altcoin coins exist.

I think the possibility of BTC being the Visicalc or the Lotus 123 of cryptocurrenies is real and can't be discounted no matter what the advertising message is.

In terms of the internet infrastructure, Google has monetary incentives to spread high speed internet to the far corners of the world and cryptocurrencies will only benefit.

Some would rather watch the world burn than see their power taken from them. I hope you have a plan to make this ubiquitous before they realize what hit them, and like PGP, I hope you let it lose before any concerted effort can be made stop it. ATM, I see decentralized technologies and cryptography like the invention of the printing press--some  will learn to use it, others won't see the threat/opportunity, while the rest are busy burning heretics.

That is not my plan to replace Bitcoin for what it is already used for. Bitcoin will continue for its small $9 billion "lunch money" demographic.

Bitcoin is not capturing the instant microtransactions demographic. There are not retailers who offer instant microtransactions using Bitcoin. Lightning Network is coming but it is flawed and won't scale quickly. LN is something like two years away from starting to really take hold. And even then it won't scale to millions of users without being centralized due to the technical issues around network topography and the surge load on the Bitcoin block chain has to be as high as the transaction load on LN.

This is an entirely new market. Think of paying for music downloads. Think of in game instant payments for apps. This is what JAMBOX is all about.

Bifurcation of the economy. I am talking about accelerating the development of the virtual economy.

BTC is worth ~ 9 billion $ at the moment, even thru that is a vast sum.
It is still minimal in comparison to even Digital Gaming which made $61 billion in 2015 alone.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/26/digital-gaming-sales-hit-record-61-billion-in-2015-report.html

Retailers use Payment Service like CoinBase & Bitpay, they convert to FIAT as fast as they can,
so they really could care less as long as the payment service works well.

Will all support drop overnight , No that won't happen.
But will support for the other coins slowly eat away at BTC Value,
sure will, should be slightly noticeable on monthly basis.

Speed matters, BTC does not have it , and their price is so high they are no longer suitable for micro transactions.
Everyone in these forums are early adopters, so BTC not being the King of the hill seems shocking.
But to John Q. Public , BTC LTC Doge Ethereum , there will be no such reverence for the 1st popular one only the one that meets their needs.
General Public could just as easily use LTC or Doge without batting an eye, and why will they, because the markets still need digital coins to handle micro transactions.

 

FYI:
r0ach likes to talk about the Alts crashing, what he does not get , is that is the main support system propping up BTC, as more Alts lose value, the less BTC is needed to buy them meaning they may even be lower than 1 satoshi, then they move to the LTC & Doge Markets and will help their value stabilize not BTC.

 

Notice how Pump groups simply aim at the coin that is popular ?
If people group together somewhere the vultures follow.
And they always find a way in.

So if it is a currency that resembles a digital version of FIAT
then i think we are doomed with the same type of problems no matter what.

I don't think there will be any magic code that can overcome these fundamental core problems.
And so far the majority of interest in ANY crypto project has only been to profit from it all.
So how do you get the mass public on board with a new REPLACEMENT currency for FIAT ?
Show them how to profit from it or they will walk away..

Then once the crowd shows up to profit the rest of the other types follow suit..
Hackers / criminals gangs.. the TAX MAN and the NSA etc.
..round & round we go.

Dropping Bitcoin and moving to another coin would be a massive thing.
No other coin is used like BTC when it comes to real world adoption with retailers etc.
Are we to think they will all simply drop their support for BTC and replace it with an Altcoin ?
That would be a bold move.. one they would not want to do.
And when that happens it would set off a massive precedent.. changing the game.
The world would probably have less faith in Crypto coins wondering when will that happen again etc ?

Litecoin making moves ? ..sure i have no issue with that but i am skeptical.
I got into Crypto because i seen Litecoin listed as a donation address on "The Pirate Bay" with BTC.
They dropped the Litecoin donation address loooong ago guys.
Which was a blow because that was a BIG site and that was real world use / adoption in play.

It's what got me started.. i had wondered what the fuck a Litecoin was ROFL
I had seen TPB with the BTC address but i got off my ass and started searching around when i seen the LTC one added.
I wish i had gone and got into it all a year earlier i would have made a killing i bet.

BTC cheerleaders have a LOT of money invested so like i was saying before they won't WANT
to see anything but a positive future even if they have to lie to themselves.. this won't ever change.

kiklo,

Although I plan on adding a form of anonymity (a new design I discovered a few weeks ago) which I think is more realistic (scalable and doesn't need Tor/I2P) than Zcash, Monero, and Dash, I don't view that as the main feature necessary to overcome the 666 problem in front of us. Nor is anonymity for the mass adoption. Anonymity is going to be there for when you need privacy. If the NSA wants to track what you are doing, it will be almost impossible for you to obscure all the metadata with any anonymity design. The most determined can probably be anonymous to the NSA, but not the masses. For the masses, they just need privacy from hackers.

Per the 2014 quote of AnonyMint in my prior post, I believe the way to overcome is to enable zillions of instant microtransactions and to make the block chain not trend towards centralization (all the block chain designs so far do trend to centralization). In this way, the people will do so many minute transactions and it will be done in a decentralized context, so there is no way to really control it.

The scaling required can't be done with any design that has been promulgated so far that I have seen.

Make it uber popular, decentralized, and make the transaction size so small that it would cost the government orders-of-magnitude more to document every transaction than they could steal with taxes. Given decentralized nodes for consensus, the government can't really regulate the nodes, they must regulate the users.

Take away the honeypot of profit, then the crocodiles go some where else. Let them have their expropriation with Bitcoin and fiat. We go bifurcate the economy.

This has been AnonyMint's plan since 2014 when he first discussed with CoinCube bifurcation of the economy as the debt laden old world Industrial Age collapses, and we usher in a new Knowledge Age.

Finally now all the technology necessary has come into clear view. And AnonyMint is healthy enough to code.

Yeah Litecoin+Coinbase may have a role to play in that old world fiat collapse clusterfuck.

P.S. For those who believe in the Biblical, I think it says the 666 is a mark and implant into our bodies. I believe this may support the notion that the overlords won't succeed by regulating only the nodes, and they will have to regulate each and every human. So maybe it is not yet time for the overlords to win. Maybe we the people do win this time.

BTC will start losing $ Value & Market Share once LTC is directly traded for FIAT on Coinbase.
BTC won't be fixed as you have too many BTC holders drinking the Koolaid.

Whichever coins receive Direct FIAT trading will now share the spotlight that BTC used to own.

Anonymous coins will all be compromised due to some technical flaw or new method to track.

Truly Anonymous transactions will only be possible by Large Holders accepting a coin, but never making any On Chain Transactions.
Offchain Transactions are the only real way to keep anonymity.
Study the Mob & CIA's Money Laundering tactics, they get away with it on a daily basis.
(Cleaning Service that converts Dirty Crypto to Clean Legally Obtained Crypto.)

You reference the dangers of evil 666, all PoW coins will line up in that Legion, for in the end they will have but one centralized master.
In the Final Battle ZEIT and her Knights will Stand Alone against all of the Brave New World Orwellian Dangers.
Will We Win?   Time will tell.
Will We Fight?  Til the Last Breath leaves our mortal frames.


 

WOW i did not notice that it was close to $600 recently.. i had not looked at prices in a month or two.
AND..
ALL ALONG I SAID THE PRICE WOULD BE GOING UP (as the halving approaches)

Prediction 1 million & 1 on the mark for me

On Topic ?
I don't know LOL

I DO know they are irritating idiots..
I posted about the SEC crypto currency warning ..an official investor warning about crypto's
(i stumbled onto it by accident a few hours after they announced it online) DEC 4th 2015
So i posted about it in the Bitcoin main section and the cheerleaders went into over-drive
chanting on like a plague how it was GOOD NEWS !
Once one of them brain dead cheerleading peons gets a retort they can sink their teeth into
they all follow suit chanting it as their new dipshit mantra.

An duhh yeah.. a FRAUD INVESTOR WARNING issued by the SEC is good news ahhahahhahahah
idiots  

They were all like ohhh that makes it legitimate now  

Reality & Honesty have no place at all what so ever in Crypto.
You don't make money being honest.. hell it's digital money so it's fraud & criminals galore.
And worse because you can commit crimes in total anonymity and need no skills (unlike IRL criminals)
I have long said this is the perfect storm..
This is the turning point for humanity where we have never EVER had any easier way to get money

..real money

Scam.. then.. Cry FUD for bucks $$$

and the loitering dregs of society hoping to make a few bucks fiat $$$ are going to
latch onto anything they can Shill as a positive point and deny or ignore any that is negative.
A THAT IS HOW THEY *think* they make money.
Sadly the morons do not realize the idiotic mentality is extremely self defeating and actually self destructive to Crypto as a whole.

Look around you can see some dipshit bitch brat strutting around here early on with an account
and he can do escrows and after a couple years you all slurp his cock like he is the 2nd coming of Jesus.
Then he rips you all off and you find out the kid is 18 or 19 years old.. NOW !
A fucking CHILD !
Master-P for example.

..or we have little shits making web site services after school with their anonymity..
and it goes on and on.. easiest way for a brain dead loud mouth idiot brats to cash in and out
..making real money (fiat cash dollars $$$)
For example: School yard brats snagging a million dollars on their BlockNET ICO scheme
and then how you all supported it to profit from it like greedy profiteer dregs.

While they all chant they are Crypto "Supporters" ..ya so they can make money off it ROFL
A real supporter would confront the problems and address them.. not hide in silence.
I can see what account names here are curiously absent.
And i will of course notice when it's their time to show back up again to SHILL hard for their BAGS.
..then watch as they all prance around with pseudo-credibility (street-cred) around here  

Also..
If you can't read a paragraph of info on a forum.. (a forum is where people TALK with text which involves reading)
Then i think your a retard.. and should probably stick to Twitter.

And if you are a profiteer Investard then i think you need to GTFO of Crypto NOW !
You are all not needed or wanted and we some of us are tired of your self-destructive greedy antics.
Get a job at McDonalds or something..

They are all scared of honesty and frank conversations and will hide..
Criticizing any coin is forbidden behavior.. it is deemed "FUD" and should be avoided at all costs.
Sort of like standing on the Titanic then getting mad when people say it's sinking.
WHY ?
They in their minds think it's detrimental to them profiting off of their bags they are clutching
..and that is all that matters to them.

And you all can not deny it because i can count on both hands how many people in all of crypto care enough to talk about the tough issues.. the rest of you hide and cry FUD.
In other words ACTION Scream far louder than words and you are all 99% busted as shitcoin profiteers.
So go back to hiding or crying FUD "Scheme Coin" aficionado's ..it's what you all do best.
And the Bitcoin Fanboys are the same just a different coin that's all..

EDIT: Some spelling corrections.

As AnonyMint predicted back in 2013...



https://bitconnect.co/bitcoin-news/126/what-is-gavin-andresen-telling-china-chinese-ama-details-revealed

The one-time anointed king of Bitcoin by Satoshi Nakamoto himself ... When asked about his association with Blockstream, who some see as a force looking to centralize Bitcoin, he did not seem to be in alignment with their agenda...

In regards to the centralization of Bitcoin, he now works for the Media Lab at MIT, who has just come out with a controversial concept known as ChainAnchor... ChainAnchor would coerce miners to not allow transactions that do not have the identities of the users of Bitcoins tied to their transactions and wallets, defeating the peer-to-peer, identity-protecting foundation of Bitcoin itself. Andresen also is a paid technical advisor to leading Bitcoin companies like Coinbase, BitPay, and Xapo.

His commentary on the upcoming Lightning Network concept was less than glowing...

I think there are disrupters planted within the alt section. When you keep hearing, "all alts are scams," you have to wonder why the person is even here. That said, there isn't a big enough user pool for Bitcoin to carry out a maximalist strategy, it was too much of a demand, too early and by too small of a contingent to ever have any real effect--think the British in India. Wallstreet will determine how this plays out in the near term. Do they keep investing in Bitcoin start-ups that have yet to make in roads to mass adoption? Do they invest in promise makers like Eth? Or do they keep learning about cryptocurrencies and make better choices as those better choices are made available? My guess is that the proliferation of classes and books on the cryptocurrency and blockchain subject coupled with the research of big names like IBM illustrates that wallstreet is closing the learning curve and will be up to speed enough to make better choices as they are revealed or made available.

Look I am sometimes helping jl777 so I am not discounting the ongoing viability of Bitcoin for the interim and besides jl777 is (planning on) having his code support other coins such Zcash.

Yet I think BitCON may also be doomed medium-term. I just wrote two posts about this:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15136762 <--- must read
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15136683

Some more comments:


How can it get more popular if it can't scale  

Hope you realize BitCON is less popular than a shitty, bottom tier social network.

Even a moderately popular mobile app has more users than BitCON.

Delusion is nice isn't it.


External data feeds break Nash equilibrium of mining. The only way to have this work securely is to entirely centralize mining, but this is where BitCON is headed any way.

There are some types of Smart Contracts that work without external data feeds, but not many. Basically Smart Contracts is bullshit. It is just another way to put all our digital information in public and under centralized control, so we are enslaved.


Which altcoin had better features demanded by masses 

I haven't seen one such altcoin ever.


Just like Blackberry, Nokia, and Palm.

Let's see what Android did to all of them (including iPhone), in just a few years going from 0% to 80+% global market share.

+++++Billion. Couldnt agree more

Well you all have a diversity of valid points (except for r0ach who is just butthurt that he missed the 10 and 100 baggers and is failing miserably to make me feel jealous when in fact I was never invested in Bitcoin, rather I was only using it to hold some fiat cash flow... and he was told that numerous times), although my own prediction of what will happen differs from yours.

The wide divergence between the posts in this thread and my own view, is good evidence supporting my theory that we can't know a priori which technological and marketing view point is correct:

Legend has it that Levi Strauss made his fortune selling durable workwear to all those miners in the 1850's gold rush in California. It's not exactly true (he patented the stud design on his Jeans much later in 1871), but the legend lives on - Levi Strauss made his fortune from selling needed inputs to all the miners, and in the process created a product that ended up having universal global appeal that survives to this day.

I think jl777 understands the legend of Levi Strauss

BTCD and SuperNET and Iguana and InstantDEX will provide services to all the other blockchains that will help them compete, so unlike most other crypto currency investments, jl777 isn't actually competing against all the other coins.

Investing in BTCD/SuperNET/Iguana/InstantDEX is like buying a share in a business that creates key inputs for an industry most of us here expect will boom very soon, so it doesn't matter which coins and platforms ultimately 'win', chances are the ones that surive will probably end up using jl777's tech, services, and products in order to scale and be user friendly enough for mass adoption.