Topic: Can BTC exist without Fiat? - page 2. (Read 1282 times)

I don't think so, if there's no fiat then there's no need to improve upon which was the goal of bitcoin in the first place, to be an alternative solution to fiat which seems to be more than effective. Plus, without fiat, how can bitcoin exactly replace it in terms of speed in global economy given how slow it's network is?

- Disagree, ignore the basic features and nature, maybe both will serve opposite goals and are incompatible with each other but the standard of value is still the addition of fiat to bitcoin, more precisely, you can use many different currencies to exchange a product but the regulation of value is still based on that currency, it means bitcoin will have no value without a specific yardstick like fiat. Besides, bitcoin wants to go to alternative steps and establish a new order, it also needs to hold the original image of fiat and banks, fiat is a mirror for bitcoin to look at and repair

How do they complement each other? They are different and serve two different purposes. Bitcoin goes against everything that fiat applies to and fiat does the same to Bitcoin. Bitcoin was created to replace the banks that fiat uses how do they complement each other? You can exchange Bitcoin to fiat but that is because you can exchange any currency in the world for another currency and you can exchange currencies for items to that does not mean that currencies complement Bitcoin.

BTC without Fiat will not be able to go this far, because fiat and BTC complement each other, where if you want to have 1BTC you can exchange it for a number of fiat,

It depends on the terms you agree upon. When someone was to borrow my an ounce of gold, I can agree with him on whether he should pay me back an ounce of gold in, say 12 months from now or whether I want the value in USD that the ounce of gold is worth today in 12 months from now. I don't think we will get to a point where Bitcoin loses its association with fiat currencies. I might be very well wrong of course, but I just don't see that happening in our life time. Maybe that's what's going to happen generations after us, but that would also mean Bitcoin becomes the ultimate reserve currencies for any currency in the world as there will definitely be many, man cryptocurrencies after all.

This is the same that happens with any other currency, if you borrow dollars instead of whatever currency your country is using then you need to pay that debt with dollars and you have to pay the interest rates in dollars as well, so I do not see why this concept is so difficult to understand in bitcoin when the same concept it is readily applied to any other currency already, maybe this happens because many people do not really see bitcoin as a currency even if that is its main function.

Maybe some of us came to a wild curiosity about if bitcoin can exist without fiat due to fast pace of improvement and currency development that was happening today. We all know that fiat already existed even without bitcoin but due to the curiosity of those people who are behind the development of bitcoin, cryptocurrency was born to give us the currency development that I can truly say a total life changer. Today, I can tell that bitcoin existed with the needs of fiat because we can't make a direct or P2P transactions but I think soon it will be available in all aspects without the need to convert our crypto into fiat.

Bitcoin will not be valued as fiat in the future so meaning you borrow 2 bitcoin you will pay 2 bitcoin no matter how much value in fiat.

your problem is fiat problem and not cryptocurrency problem.

I think the two can exist at the same time. If there is no Fiat, everyone will use cryptocurrency. Maybe the salary paid by the boss is cryptocurrency, or we rely on mining to obtain cryptocurrency. At present, everyone still uses fiat currency more. Cryptocurrency is used for investment. Nowadays, many cryptocurrencies are used for payment transactions. There are also companies that give employees cryptocurrency when they pay salaries (of course this will be agreed by employees).

It is never going to be allowed, bitcoin will keep on existing and it will become incredibly popular as there is nothing governments can do to stop the adoption of bitcoin, but fiat currencies will always exist, governments get a lot of power from those currencies to just let them disappear without a fight as they can steal from the wealth of their citizens through inflation, so I doubt they will ever admit their defeat against bitcoin officially and will keep trying to deceive anyone that they can with those useless currencies.

I think we don't need to bother our mind thinking in a situation like this because fiat money already exists before Bitcoin has created. We can't take fiat just for the sake to know if Bitcoin will be able to exist. Because what I understand is that Bitcoin was created as for alternative option aside from fiat as a currency where we can use to buy stuff.
This is just a sort of currency development and this Bitcoin will come even there is no fiat but it was just to happen that ancient people only use paper money, that is why fiat is there and this Bitcoin just come next when digitalization has been started.

BTC has many similarities with conventional fiat, but also offer advantages. They can be used for payments and as a store of value. They need to rely on consumer trust in order to work as a means of exchange. Main thing about Fiat is they its controlled by banks. BTC on the other hand comes form mining and no one controls it. BTC is tamper-proof and can only be spent once. Cannot be reverse. To answer the topic question, I say BTC cannot exist alone. It needs fiat money to validate its importance or strength. Fiat is the standard and BTC or crytpo will be the Premium.

Maybe this will be possible in the future when bitcoin becomes fairly stable,  no one can tell. However, what I do know is that the price of bitcoin is too volatile to make this possible.
It is because of the great tendency for bitcoin to move either ways that  makes it impossible for this to happen. If one pays 0.1BTC now and promises to pay up in a month's time, there is no guarantee that the price of bitcoin would still be the same and this means the seller or the buyer would run at a loss

That's right, bitcoin was created to cover the weakness of fiat. If we have bitcoin, it's the same as investing. Because the value of bitcoin continues to increase. Whereas if we have fiat, it will not increase our money.

I don't think cryptocurrencies particularly bitcoin will continue to exist without fiat. Fiat has been the primary means which people use in their daily transactions. In addition, it is also what the investors and traders usually exchange their cryptocurrency with and vice-versa. That is why I think crypto will not exist without fiat since depositing and withdrawing in crypto is usually bridged by fiat. Cryptocurrency still also needs a lot of upgrades of features and improvements of services offered. It has still a lot of loopholes IMO in terms of transacting (long transaction time, higher processing fees, etc), so the moment fiat will not be available, people will have a hard time.

Regarding your question, I think it's impossible to happen in bitcoin. I understood the scenario you provided as an installment payment. You'll give a half downpayment, and then you will pay the remaining balance in the next few months depending on the contract you signed. This is unlikely to happen in bitcoin unless the seller is very much open to the risks it possesses. The seller will just either profit higher or lose his money. The situation will depend on the market status and bitcoin's price value the moment you bought something via installment by giving the first half and then the remaining balance.

I think it can exist, what it can't exist without is electricity. To prove that, just a simple look back at the 10k bitcoin pizza is enough proof that it can be used as a means of trading like a currency, but the problem is that we don't know yet if bitcoin can do the work in macroeconomics since there's seven billion people and it needs a really fast money circulation if we want bitcoin to be like fiat.

The real question is whether or not world governments would allow for such a scenario. Kleptocracy is more common than one might think, and sometimes comes in tandem with plutocracy. What's unique about the most powerful government, the United States, is that it is a very different form of kleptocracy than history has ever seen. Look at every store of value/means of transacting and we see that governments have always seized the predominant technology for this at one point or another. Think the 1930s, the US gov't seized mass amount of gold and silver, also Prodrazvyorstka in the Soviet Union.

In theory BTC could exist without fiat, but then government would lose control. Unless they owned a 51% interest in mining that is, which is technically feasible given the resources available although not likely because they know what would happen in that case.

Technologically speaking, BTC would be better off as an underlying store of value for a much speedier system layered on top. Kind of how gold backed the paper dollar, even though most of it was in vaults in New York/Kentucky, not in hand. BTC is digitally "heavy", just how gold is physically heavy and not easily moved en masse. The problem is, that requires trusting a third party. So someone would have to come up with a trustless way to implement that scenario. Ideally, this system would be cryptographically secure, but so speedy that the security of payment is as fast as a Visa transaction, or even better, like me handing you cash.

Financially speaking, Bitcoin would have to reach such maturity that the price of goods in BTC would not wildly fluctuate on a regular basis. We see this over long periods of time in fiat, which is kind of like a frog in boiling water effect. Somehow it all works out though because in real terms nobody is paying that much more for goods. Overnight price swings of 10% like we regularly see would not be acceptable in a crypto-only world though. I think we can get to this point once society as a whole realizes that instead of trusting that governments honor their obligations we could just hand that duty over to immutable mathematics and algorithms.  

So the answer is yes. But would it be allowed?

Leaving FIAT and crypto side by side is a very appropriate choice, where one is given the freedom to choose one or both at once. We can all determine according to our needs by paying attention to the shortcomings and also the advantages of each instrument.
FIAT is more universal, but crypto mobility is better here. In some countries crypto is not accepted, but for transactions between countries FIAT is not flexible.
BTC without fiat, of course you can't. But fiat without BTC, makes something incomplete.

When the direct usage of bitcoin increases automatically the dependence over the fiat will drop down. In reality such a scenario won't happen soon, it needs a big transition time. People need to get educated about the usage of bitcoin. If it has got some material like the paper money then it is an easy-to-use thing for all people. Now specific group of people are into bitcoin. This makes bitcoin to stay as an alternate to fiat and always have its dependence over fiat.

true as you said, for now we can't say bitcoin is better than fiat, because we all know that fiat currency doesn't need bitcoin, but bitcoin definitely needs fiat currency, to exchange, and buy our needs..