Can BTC exist without Fiat? - page 4.

germsite

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Quote from: Shasha80 on July 21, 2021, 04:33:31 PM

Quote from: Fredomago on July 21, 2021, 04:08:51 PM

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on July 20, 2021, 10:38:25 AM

I think that one day we eventually will move to a fully electronic payments system for fiat, and maybe that's bitcoin and maybe it's not, but I think it's inevitable being that we are already almost there ( credit cards for example ). I however don't think that we will be getting rid of our fiat currency anytime soon. Andreas Antonopoulos stated a year or so ago in one of his talks that he doesn't see bitcoin replacing fiat, but that they are most likely going to work in conjunction with each other. I happen to have the same train of thought. I am not sure exactly how that is going to happen, but it certainly is seemingly the most likely scenario, at least in the short term.

I see that point and yeah it's already happening, most of the time when you do shopping or buying your groceries you don't need to bring fiat with you, with the help of digital methods you can easily use your cards to pay your bills.

Though, like what you have said it takes time if in case that government around the world will consider bitcoin as alternative system, so far with those digital types of currencies crypto/bitcoin is not one of the top priorities.

only time can tell if that will happened, let us enjoy that they are co-existing to benefits more people.

Cashless payments are already running now, because they are considered very effective, and there is no need to carry cash anywhere. For Bitcoin
to be accepted as a payment alternative in all countries in the world it takes a long time, because for now in some countries, Bitcoin is still considered
a threat, because it cannot be controlled. But with time many countries will realize the importance of accepting Bitcoin. The conclusion is that
it is impossible for Bitcoin to exist without fiat, because the government will not allow this to happen. The most reasonable thing is that Bitcoin
and fiat co-existing, if this happens, many people will feel the ease of conducting financial transactions.

Bitcoin's market cap would have to be so huge that it could act as a unit of account, seriously, probably at least 10 or 20x from where we are. If you value stuff in Bitcoin, you are also running into the threat of prices getting manipulated by whales. Bitcoin won't exist alone, there will be other currencies that it somehow relates to, hence there is always room for manipulation.

Shasha80

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Quote from: Fredomago on July 21, 2021, 04:08:51 PM

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on July 20, 2021, 10:38:25 AM

I think that one day we eventually will move to a fully electronic payments system for fiat, and maybe that's bitcoin and maybe it's not, but I think it's inevitable being that we are already almost there ( credit cards for example ). I however don't think that we will be getting rid of our fiat currency anytime soon. Andreas Antonopoulos stated a year or so ago in one of his talks that he doesn't see bitcoin replacing fiat, but that they are most likely going to work in conjunction with each other. I happen to have the same train of thought. I am not sure exactly how that is going to happen, but it certainly is seemingly the most likely scenario, at least in the short term.

I see that point and yeah it's already happening, most of the time when you do shopping or buying your groceries you don't need to bring fiat with you, with the help of digital methods you can easily use your cards to pay your bills.

Though, like what you have said it takes time if in case that government around the world will consider bitcoin as alternative system, so far with those digital types of currencies crypto/bitcoin is not one of the top priorities.

only time can tell if that will happened, let us enjoy that they are co-existing to benefits more people.

Cashless payments are already running now, because they are considered very effective, and there is no need to carry cash anywhere. For Bitcoin
to be accepted as a payment alternative in all countries in the world it takes a long time, because for now in some countries, Bitcoin is still considered
a threat, because it cannot be controlled. But with time many countries will realize the importance of accepting Bitcoin. The conclusion is that
it is impossible for Bitcoin to exist without fiat, because the government will not allow this to happen. The most reasonable thing is that Bitcoin
and fiat co-existing, if this happens, many people will feel the ease of conducting financial transactions.

Fredomago

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Quote from: ChiBitCTy on July 20, 2021, 10:38:25 AM

I think that one day we eventually will move to a fully electronic payments system for fiat, and maybe that's bitcoin and maybe it's not, but I think it's inevitable being that we are already almost there ( credit cards for example ). I however don't think that we will be getting rid of our fiat currency anytime soon. Andreas Antonopoulos stated a year or so ago in one of his talks that he doesn't see bitcoin replacing fiat, but that they are most likely going to work in conjunction with each other. I happen to have the same train of thought. I am not sure exactly how that is going to happen, but it certainly is seemingly the most likely scenario, at least in the short term.

I see that point and yeah it's already happening, most of the time when you do shopping or buying your groceries you don't need to bring fiat with you, with the help of digital methods you can easily use your cards to pay your bills.

Though, like what you have said it takes time if in case that government around the world will consider bitcoin as alternative system, so far with those digital types of currencies crypto/bitcoin is not one of the top priorities.

only time can tell if that will happened, let us enjoy that they are co-existing to benefits more people.

MrcMrc

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Fiant will give you the best option for this kind of transaction as the balance will remain the same at the time of refunds but when you are using bitcoin to make such a deal, you may end up paying high-interest rates as the bitcoin price is not stable and can change at any point in time.

germsite

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Quote from: South Park on July 21, 2021, 01:57:42 PM

Quote from: 20kevin20 on July 19, 2021, 05:33:13 AM

Quote from: cotton ball on July 19, 2021, 05:23:24 AM

it's true what you said comrade, bitcoin can't be controlled by anyone, but bitcoin I think is very dependent on fiat currency, bitcoin was created to complement one another, I think bitcoin will be very difficult to develop if it is not supported by fiat currency, because now we can't buy rice with bitcoin in some countries..

It's actually very independent from fiat. If it existed before without having any USD value, it could easily exist today totally independent from it the same way USD can live without BTC. It's just that it's so much easier to see and find its value based on a stable currency, but that doesn't make it dependent to anything. At the end of the day, if you think a kg of potato is worth .1mBTC, you can sell it for that much as long as there is demand and as long as you think it truly is worth that much. The fact that 1 kg of potato is worth 3.1 USD makes your .1mBTC automatically be worth 3.1 USD, otherwise people'd take advantage of the difference in prices until it goes stable anyway.. so these things are indirectly linked BUT independent!

What is happening is that since the US dollar is the current wold currency then it makes sense that everything Is valued and compared against it, after all it is not as if other currencies are not compared against it all the time, so it is natural the same happens with bitcoin, so this is not something that people should worry about as it is completely natural, however we could come to the point in which the opposite is the truth and the value and the price of everything is compared against bitcoin instead of using the dollar for this.

I think valuing it against Bitcoin probably won't work. Maybe it could be a basket of cryptocurrency, but since Bitcoin is so volatile and we have no tools for monetary policy to stabilize it, valuing things against Bitcoin is unconceivable at the moment. As with gold, I doubt that Bitcoin will ever lose its volatility. It will become less volatile, but still too volatile to be the only crypto that goods and services are valued against.

South Park

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Quote from: 20kevin20 on July 19, 2021, 05:33:13 AM

Quote from: cotton ball on July 19, 2021, 05:23:24 AM

it's true what you said comrade, bitcoin can't be controlled by anyone, but bitcoin I think is very dependent on fiat currency, bitcoin was created to complement one another, I think bitcoin will be very difficult to develop if it is not supported by fiat currency, because now we can't buy rice with bitcoin in some countries..

It's actually very independent from fiat. If it existed before without having any USD value, it could easily exist today totally independent from it the same way USD can live without BTC. It's just that it's so much easier to see and find its value based on a stable currency, but that doesn't make it dependent to anything. At the end of the day, if you think a kg of potato is worth .1mBTC, you can sell it for that much as long as there is demand and as long as you think it truly is worth that much. The fact that 1 kg of potato is worth 3.1 USD makes your .1mBTC automatically be worth 3.1 USD, otherwise people'd take advantage of the difference in prices until it goes stable anyway.. so these things are indirectly linked BUT independent!

What is happening is that since the US dollar is the current wold currency then it makes sense that everything Is valued and compared against it, after all it is not as if other currencies are not compared against it all the time, so it is natural the same happens with bitcoin, so this is not something that people should worry about as it is completely natural, however we could come to the point in which the opposite is the truth and the value and the price of everything is compared against bitcoin instead of using the dollar for this.

ChiBitCTy

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I think that one day we eventually will move to a fully electronic payments system for fiat, and maybe that's bitcoin and maybe it's not, but I think it's inevitable being that we are already almost there ( credit cards for example ). I however don't think that we will be getting rid of our fiat currency anytime soon. Andreas Antonopoulos stated a year or so ago in one of his talks that he doesn't see bitcoin replacing fiat, but that they are most likely going to work in conjunction with each other. I happen to have the same train of thought. I am not sure exactly how that is going to happen, but it certainly is seemingly the most likely scenario, at least in the short term.

seramania

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it seems impossible, because the price of bitcoin goes up and down. maybe now you can pay $ 0.1 but in a few days later it can increase or decrease the nature of bitcoin is volatile or unstable. so maybe fiat is more existent now

fuguebtc

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Without fiat bitcoin still exists but the value of bitcoin probably no longer exists. The value of bitcoin is being valued in fiat ,How can you buy bitcoin when fiat doesn't exist?. Besides,if you use bitcoin to buy goods every day, you have to pay extra blockchain network fee, transactions have to wait for confirmation ..etc. Bitcoin and fiat will both coexist and support each other.

Core.i7

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on July 20, 2021, 05:53:26 AM

Yes it can exist but the problem is that it will have the same role as fiat meaning that it will become stable and somewhat centralized. Plus, bitcoin wouldn't be an asset anymore because it finally turned to be a currency.

Bitcoin was originally created as a currency but we are treating it as a asset or commodity.

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even it would be better for bitcoin, because there is no weight value or estimate anymore. it makes bitcoin the main money in the world. however, it seems difficult, because we are already comfortable with fiat and bitcoin.

CryptoStar19

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on July 20, 2021, 05:53:26 AM

Yes it can exist but the problem is that it will have the same role as fiat meaning that it will become stable and somewhat centralized. Plus, bitcoin wouldn't be an asset anymore because it finally turned to be a currency.

This may be true, but it still won't be under the control of any central government who would just make more of it as they see fit. This is a huge difference with bitcoin.

Lorence.xD

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Yes it can exist but the problem is that it will have the same role as fiat meaning that it will become stable and somewhat centralized. Plus, bitcoin wouldn't be an asset anymore because it finally turned to be a currency.

iTradeChips

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I think the volatility of Bitcoin might pose an obstacle for such payment scheme. I think many people would still prefer fiat currency or any other type of payment method or process other than Bitcoin. The value of the Bitcoins which one should pay should adjust based on the value of the product. And that alone might scare away people from actually using Bitcoin as mode of payment in a world without fiat currency. In my opinion, fiat is definitely needed for now.

mbe48

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I think it could be, but the exchange would happen if BTC prices were stable and there were no Fiats in the world. Because if there is still Fiat, there will be economic paralysis (Inflation). But Fiat is an icon of the founding of a country, so it is better to use BTC only as a digital asset because there is nothing to regulate in terms of price and as a long-term investment it is more than enough.

ropyu1978

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 20, 2021, 03:50:46 AM

I would say, without mass adoption, both must exist. How can we determine the value of Bitcoin without fiat money? Impossible without mass adoption. How can goods and services producers determine the value of their work in Bitcoin without mass adoption? Again impossible. It will take tens of years before BTC can exist without fiat.

I strongly agree with your opinion, friend, the emergence of bitcoin without fiat currency will definitely not last long, because it is supported by fiat currency, so bitcoin can survive until now, fiat currency and bitcoin need each other, they live side by side, if there is no fiat currency, it can be said that it is impossible for bitcoin to survive, because we know bitcoin exchanges must require fiat currency.

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I would say, without mass adoption, both must exist. How can we determine the value of Bitcoin without fiat money? Impossible without mass adoption. How can goods and services producers determine the value of their work in Bitcoin without mass adoption? Again impossible. It will take tens of years before BTC can exist without fiat.

Robinson66

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Bitcoin is a currency used for payment transactions. If there is no legal currency, it can still perform payment transactions and can still exist. Without Bitcoin legal currency, it can still be used by people. The two of them did not say who must rely on whom to exist. Both can exist at the same time,

imstillthebest

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Quote from: GeorgeJohn on July 19, 2021, 05:43:40 AM

Quote from: cotton ball on July 19, 2021, 05:23:24 AM

Quote from: imstillthebest on July 19, 2021, 05:05:08 AM

it's true what you said comrade, bitcoin can't be controlled by anyone, but bitcoin I think is very dependent on fiat currency, bitcoin was created to complement one another, I think bitcoin will be very difficult to develop if it is not supported by fiat currency, because now we can't buy rice with bitcoin in some countries..

This is obvious because cryptocurrency generally can't be controlled by any arms of government even manage by a particular sector, so making it known from my observation, without fiat currency bitcoin can not go a long way, you have said my mind, because their is some certain things bitcoin can not purchase base on the nature of the country with exception of fiat, a fiat currency is like engine room of cryptocurrencies, fiat is bitcoin backbone without it bitcoin can't come in accomplish, because right now you can't go local market and purchase food items with bitcoin, those traders values fiat currency because they are acclimatized it, and which is known to them because of it's visibility than cryptocurrency more especially bitcoin.

if that is the case well we might need to convert our btc first to fiat before we can use it. if our country legalize btc, the local exchangers will also have a support for btc but if not then
we can do this online because theres alot of btc exchangers available now and some of this exchangers now support fiat currencies. there are also shops online that directly accepts a bitcoin payment . we can buy the goods straight and save time or fees .

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Quote from: Saidasun on July 19, 2021, 02:06:01 PM

If bitcoin was to exist without fiat it would have to become the mainstream currency and that is a long way off. I do think we will get there but it will be at least another decade before it becomes the main stream currency. The good news is that some countries have already announced it as legal money which is a step in the right direction.

Lets say that Bitcoin becomes a mainstream currency and billions are transacting it on a daily basis even though it is impossible to have that kind of scaling solutions for Bitcoin right now, lets assume that we can scale like Visa and Master card but what do you do about the high volatility, cryptocurrency market and the fiat market is there to coexist.

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