Can Conditioned Response Cure Gambling Addiction

coin-investor

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Quote from: Fiatless on August 14, 2024, 05:31:05 AM

Quote from: Oshosondy on August 12, 2024, 10:28:09 AM

This reminds me of the psychology course our department borrowed when I was in school that condition stimulus was talked about in which ringing of a bell and feeding of dog after was used for the explanation. If the bell is later rang, the dog will salivates as the dog get use to it. But this is different from what we can associate with gambling in a way someone can stop gambling because of condition stimulus. That is not possible and I do not know how these can be associated together.

I also remember this theory of learning by Russian physiologist, Ivan Pavlov, who discussed Conditioning in dogs. Replacing conditioned stimulus with something else so that the unconditioned stimulus and unconditioned response will change is the main purpose of the thread. An example is if a hangout with friends gamblers (conditioned stimulus) triggers the urge (unconditioned stimulus) to gamble (unconditioned response). The individual can change this conditioned response by maybe changing his friends to those who play video games so that that urge to gamble will be replaced by the drive to play video games.

Quote from: coin-investor on August 12, 2024, 10:06:51 AM

Do you believe another stimulus [Conditioned Response] can replace the stimuli from gambling? So my question is, what is an effective stimulus [Conditioned Response] that can replace gambling addiction?

Yeah, I believe that gambling can be substituted for other forms of entertainment. For me, movies, computer games, playing football and online trading can reduce my gambling habit

Thanks for mentioning Pavlov. That is why I created this thread to discuss Pavlov's work, which, for me, is an excellent help to relatives because there is hope. All they need is to supersede the existing stimuli with another stimulus to fight the addiction; of course, help from professionals is a must because they are the ones who can set up an effective replacement of the existing stimuli.

I'm locking this thread. Thank you to those who participated in this discussion. We'll go on another discussion

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Quote from: Sim_card on August 12, 2024, 11:34:56 AM

Quote from: crwth on August 12, 2024, 11:23:21 AM

I think once this is established in your head it wouldn’t be as effective as it would be In replacing a bad response or conditioning in the brain. It is not as replaceable in my opinion, especially if the person is addicted already. maybe a different therapy or something could be done.

Yea the urge for gambling cannot be replaceable because what causes the urge to gamble is when you think that you want to use it to double your money. Profit is the reason why people gets addicted to gambling and I don't think that there is anything one can use to replace gambling that is also possible for it to bring you profit. Because no matter how discipline a gambler is, if he makes profit he will be excited. Self control and discipline is the only way to avoid gambling addiction.

Yeah nothing can replace the urge for gambling, people that claim to distract themselves with other things later find themselves relapsing because that urge to double your money always comes either when you spend or need money, only two things can help decision and discipline, these are very difficult attributes to inculcate but with time and consistency you would overcome.. stopping an habit can't happen in one day you will definitely go back and forth but if you keep putting in effort to stop you definitely will

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I believe it would be possible to threat gambling addiction with conditions responses, but the tricky part about it would be to trick the person being treated to associate gambling with some negative feelings.
I have read about these techniques but under different names: like unconscious programming, widely used in developing nations to try to make homosexual people not longer be homosexual.
It is concerned to be a technique is goes against human rights of those who are forcibly treated.
An experiment which comes to mind to combat gambling addiction thought these techniques would make the whole experience unforcomfotable for the gambler and it it could possibly make the gambler to quit in the long term from wagering money in any shape or form.

Here are further references to what people call "conversion therapy".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

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Quote from: Hirose UK on August 12, 2024, 10:58:28 PM

Quote from: Text on August 12, 2024, 06:56:22 PM

Engaging in activities that provide a sense of achievement, such as learning a new skill, exercising, or pursuing creative outlets, could serve as new stimuli that gradually reduce the urge to gamble. It’s not an easy process, but with consistent effort, it might be possible to rewire those responses.

I agree with you because that way gambling addict will feel that they have other activities that are more enjoyable and can be done anytime without having to involve things like betting money, gradually all of this will lead gambling addicts to really reduce gambling activities.
In addition, there are many more positive activities or activities that can provide special stimulation for gambling addicts so that they can consider if what they do is much better than the gambling activities they have previously done.
But these various activities can only be done by people who really think about being able to cure themselves because basically healing and stopping gambling addiction must begin with the desires and intentions of each addict themselves.

He said that 'it was not an easy process' . That can have a double meaning. Not easy if our goal is to gamble less or quit it permanently because for sure the strong urge is still there especially if we are only getting started on combating it.

Another one that is not easy is to do some activities that he listed like learning a new skill and exercising. They are still very rewarding once we achieve them. He did not gave an easy example there but the one that I can think of right now is playing a video game. It is rewarding but can be dangerous like gambling if not controlled. Other acts are not gambling where we place our money as a form of bets but we still can spend money on them, like for example we buy a video game, we buy healthy foods, shoes, and others when we are exercising.

We buy a course (if it's about learning a new skill). I can say that it was still better than in gambling because we still can have the items that we bought, while in gambling, our money can only last a short period of time. I think that even the gambler has no intention to stop his habits, they can still be able to do the other activities that we talk above, and for those who are addicts, they won't say or do the steps to cure their selves if they are not serious about it.

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The general principles of treating any addiction are the same. What are these principles? Firstly, it is deprivation from the factor causing the addiction. If you smoke, do not buy cigarettes; if you are a drug addict, make sure that drugs do not reach you. And if you are a gambler, make sure that you do not have the opportunity to visit gambling sites. Secondly, you should come up with some kind of hobby that would distract you from thoughts about gambling. It does not matter what kind of hobby it is. The main thing is that it distracts you, develops you and brings you pleasure. And the level of this pleasure should be comparable to the one you had when you were gambling.

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I think distracting to other things can help us to cure our gambling addiction. But that will need more effort to distract our minds from thinking about gambling. Not many people can leave gambling although they try harder because they can control their minds from leaving the gambling.

If addicted person to gambling doesn't have a big effort to cure his gambling addiction, he will not have a chance to cure his gambling addiction. We can not say that one thing can be effective for many people because that will depends on what his level of gambling addiction and what can makes him distract his minds from gambling. Maybe it needs observation to know how deep he is in the gambling games so professional can determine what therapy that person will do.

But he can try to cure himself by the help from other people without asking for professional help. But that will not easy as he can return to casino if he doesn't have a strong minds to control himself. If he can do something that different than playing gambling continuously, maybe he can be able to distract his minds from thinking about gambling.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on August 12, 2024, 10:28:09 AM

This reminds me of the psychology course our department borrowed when I was in school that condition stimulus was talked about in which ringing of a bell and feeding of dog after was used for the explanation. If the bell is later rang, the dog will salivates as the dog get use to it. But this is different from what we can associate with gambling in a way someone can stop gambling because of condition stimulus. That is not possible and I do not know how these can be associated together.

I also remember this theory of learning by Russian physiologist, Ivan Pavlov, who discussed Conditioning in dogs. Replacing conditioned stimulus with something else so that the unconditioned stimulus and unconditioned response will change is the main purpose of the thread. An example is if a hangout with friends gamblers (conditioned stimulus) triggers the urge (unconditioned stimulus) to gamble (unconditioned response). The individual can change this conditioned response by maybe changing his friends to those who play video games so that that urge to gamble will be replaced by the drive to play video games.

Quote from: coin-investor on August 12, 2024, 10:06:51 AM

Do you believe another stimulus [Conditioned Response] can replace the stimuli from gambling? So my question is, what is an effective stimulus [Conditioned Response] that can replace gambling addiction?

Yeah, I believe that gambling can be substituted for other forms of entertainment. For me, movies, computer games, playing football and online trading can reduce my gambling habit

Lida93

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Quote from: Sandra_hakeem on August 12, 2024, 10:57:51 AM

Quote from: coin-investor on August 12, 2024, 10:06:51 AM

Gambling addiction develops through continuous repetition of habit, which is another word for Conditioned response, and this habit develops through stimuli, so a gambler who repeatedly gets excited through gambling develops an addiction.

It's doesn't even rely solely on how repetitive a gambler can be, but how hungry and passionate they are towards whatever games that it... The urge that makes addiction to thrive fast is GREED.

If gamblers who repeated get excited with gambling develops an addiction does getting sad and moody while gambling becomes an antidote against gambling addiction? Am asking because I don't get it how repeatedly gambling should be hooked on as a condition to addiction. It is not in the repetitions basically, but in the approach of the gambler.

I could repeatedly gamble and don't attach any form of value to it, taking it as something less to grow feelings about order than just a means to enjoy my time while standing a chance to make some cash. The next man's approach may be different from mine, his could be that of a means to an end, and that's where the GREED (as Sandra_hakeem said) comes in, and a lack of discipline is displayed leading to compulsive addiction.

Quote from: Sandra_hakeem on August 12, 2024, 10:57:51 AM

Quote from: coin-investor on August 12, 2024, 10:06:51 AM

Do you believe another stimulus [Conditioned Response] can replace the stimuli from gambling? So my question is, what is an effective stimulus [Conditioned Response] that can replace gambling addiction?

You don't have to suppress the urge by getting addicted to something else... Its not an ailment but definitely, it's a disorder. The best antidote for correction is allowing it to LEAVE YOU. Distract yourself with things that could also be of good to you instead - hit the gym!!!

Absolutely true about suppressive means of distraction to tame oneself away from gambling addiction. You could just be making the condition worse without knowing that that's where you're headed to. Occupying oneself with activities that brighten your mood and at same time makes you feel fulfilled afterwards without you struggling with yourself to engage in it, such practice can be helpful as it occupies the time you would have spent on feeding your gambling addiction.

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Quote from: Docnaster on August 12, 2024, 11:49:18 AM

Quote from: aioc on August 12, 2024, 11:35:52 AM

Since repeated stimuli were brought about by the conditioned response, it can be replaced by another repeated stimulus. The best person to think of a replacement is a professional expert who deals with gambling; he knows the best replacement that can equal the gambling stimulus.
I don't think another hobby or playing sports can replace the strong stimuli brought about by gambling addiction it should be something that will bring a dramatic effect.

In as much as I agree with your opinion that applying Conditioned Response as a measure to stop cure gambling addiction might not be effective enough on gambling addicts, I think we should also put in consideration that different people have different reactions to mental exercises. Since the gambling addiction was caused by constant engagement in gambling, the addiction can also be erased by engaging the gambling addict in other fun activities that can go to serve as the addict's hobby. So it might be possible depending on the individual.

Since the conditioned response of gambling can lead to addiction, if a gambler finds himself in this caged situation, I think that the best option would be to channel the response to another interesting activity. It's not easy but I believe that it's not impossible, what the addicted gambler needs is patience and practice The person can seek the help of a professional so that the process can be easier but with strong will and determination the addict can triumph and replace the conditioned response with another thing to respond to.

The human mind is adaptive, when it's in a comfort zone of where you want it to operate, you'll think that it doesn't have the capacity to adjust in another zone. But you'll be surprised that if it leaves that comfort, with time it'll adjust and find comfort in a new space.

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It's ethical use this approach for cure gambling addiction? DId we have any evidence is something that could be really be used?
Even the answer of this question is "YES" or "NOT" this can't be assessed here on paper but must be validated with a trial or an experiment in a defined setting. There are many variants and bias that must be taken into account.
I would have a small search also on pubmed. Maybe there is already some literature on that argument.

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Quote from: coin-investor on August 12, 2024, 10:06:51 AM

Do you believe another stimulus [Conditioned Response] can replace the stimuli from gambling? So my question is, what is an effective stimulus [Conditioned Response] that can replace gambling addiction?

It can be observed by everyone that when a person is really immersed into doing something, they don't remember their addictions, so do things which can make you forget your addictions. Now which ones? Depends on individual and intensity of their addictions.

For some people, merely replacing gambling with video games (which was their hobby) was enough to rise above their moderate addiction.

Some may argue, it's creating another addiction, that may be correct but IMO replacing dangerous addiction with less dangerous one is wise choice.

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Quote from: Julien_Olynpic on August 13, 2024, 06:12:28 AM

I don't think that a person can be cured of gambling addiction with a "stimulus", at least not always. You know, sometimes a person unwittingly creates an addiction for himself because of a so-called viral idea. Let's say a person is obsessed with a viral idea, also known as an idée fixe, that he can get rich by playing roulette using the Martingale method. And the person will experiment with roulette and Martingale for a very long time and persistently until he is convinced of the absurdity of this idea. And it is impossible to "cure" him as long as the person believes in his viral idea. Any obstacles on the way to realizing his idea will only irritate the person.

I personally agree with this statement. More likely, a gambling addiction is too complex to be overcome by a trigger or some other short-term intervention, if I were to based the concept of "Addiction". Like what's in the statement the Martingale technique of roulette, a person deeply committed to some particular belief or ideology may find it hard to get over the attraction until they realize with absolute certainty that their belief is completely wrong. This very certainty will then hold their gambling behavior in an even more negative way. Simply adding other stimulus or other solutions is insufficient because, if the root cause is strong enough. True development typically requires working with these fundamental beliefs, seeking means to alter his attitudes and feelings about gambling, which requires more support and self-examination than initial intervention.

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Quote from: Text on August 12, 2024, 06:56:22 PM

Engaging in activities that provide a sense of achievement, such as learning a new skill, exercising, or pursuing creative outlets, could serve as new stimuli that gradually reduce the urge to gamble. It’s not an easy process, but with consistent effort, it might be possible to rewire those responses.

The best is when the gambler realizes that he can not make money from gambling. The problem most gamblers that are spending too much on gambling. The fact is that they are looking for money while gambling. Once they start seeing gambling as entertainment, wasting money on gambling will not come to their mind. I have spoken with some addicted gamblers before, if they are truthful to tell you about gambling and earning money, you will notice this fact about them.

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Quote from: coin-investor on August 12, 2024, 10:06:51 AM

Why I created this thread: I am interested to know if the conditioned response is a cure for gambling addiction.

As far as I know, conditioned or unconditioned response stimuli have not been applied to those who are addicted to gambling, this stimulus system has only been developed for general patients, such as mental disorders, fear or excessive trauma.

However, from some data that I have read, if the stimulus in the form of an association can lead to something like what I have quoted below.

Quote

Conditioned responses can be a good thing, but they can also be problematic. Associations can lead to desirable behaviors, but they can lead to undesirable or maladaptive behaviors such as phobias. Fortunately, the same behavioral learning processes that led to the formation of a conditioned response can also be used to teach new behaviors or change old ones.

In my understanding, conditioned response stimuli can be the best alternative to use for those who are addicted to gambling, because they can shape or change the behavior of each individual.

Sample case:

Quote

Phobias: If you witness a terrible car accident, you might develop a fear of driving. Many phobias begin after a person has had a negative experience with the fear object.

Meaning: it can be concluded that if a conditioned response stimulus is applied to those who are addicted to gambling, it may be effective in stopping gambling because of the negative impacts that often occur in the gambling arena, From some of the data above, I believe that conditioned responses are very effective in overcoming gambling addiction.

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Quote from: Apocollapse on August 13, 2024, 09:43:10 AM

Nothing can replace gambling.

~

That is certainly not true. It's just for different persons different conditioned responses can be applied. I'm pretty sure gambling addiction can be cured(I witnessed the examples of that myself), but it's not always that simple. It takes a good professional in his field.

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Nothing can replace gambling.

Because itself require money and has opportunity to earn money, in this case there are no other activity that can replace gambling.

Unlike painting, you can replace it with playing music, you can replace travelling with staycation, you can replace playing games with watching movies.

While gambling, you can only replace it with gambling lol.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on August 12, 2024, 03:46:33 PM

Quote from: coin-investor on August 12, 2024, 10:06:51 AM

Do you believe another stimulus [Conditioned Response] can replace the stimuli from gambling? So my question is, what is an effective stimulus [Conditioned Response] that can replace gambling addiction?

Ivan Pavlov would be curious to know the responses to this discussion - let's make him proud. Any effective stimulus that would replace gambling addiction is a very high valued activity in which the gambler is interested in or will be interested in and that generates as much excitement as gambling doesn't. It is not a one size fits all activity. It differs from person to person. As for me such stimuli would be football.

Ivan failed to be specific about whether the gambling was online or offline, because I believe the conditioned response or stimulus will vary.
Also, speaking about your idea on the kind of conditioned response of which football is your preference, you didn't say if it was online football games or it's going all boss out on a pitch with a football singly or with other sweaty bros.

Whichever is anyone's preferred stimulus, I think I would prefer writing or painting/drawing or doodling on rough pieces of paper when such urge to gamble arises, as my stimulus of choice to cure gambling addiction.

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It won't work although simulated cases may say so I think that in a long run gambling addiction can only be cured by enough self determination to want to achieve such thing and nothing else can help.I say so because temporary cure can be found by such conditional approach but one can never know what to expect from gambling emotions,not everyone responds the same to such emotions,some take it easy and stop gambling after massive lost amount of money,many others burn in rage and others even break things.It is relative but overall I doubt anything except huge self determination can help in curing gambling addiction in a definitive way.

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Quote from: coin-investor on August 12, 2024, 10:06:51 AM

Why I created this thread: I am interested to know if the conditioned response is a cure for gambling addiction.

Gambling addiction develops through continuous repetition of habit, which is another word for Conditioned response, and this habit develops through stimuli, so a gambler who repeatedly gets excited through gambling develops an addiction.

Do you believe another stimulus [Conditioned Response] can replace the stimuli from gambling? So my question is, what is an effective stimulus [Conditioned Response] that can replace gambling addiction?

I will lock this thread after 4 days or 40 responses, whatever comes first

Doing something else to keep your mind distracted might not help every gambler, I think making a decision and standing on it is the only way out of gambling because you can try to replace your addiction with other hobbies but it still doesn't restrict your access to it , gambling addiction is caused by the rush of dopamine in the brain conditioning you to always engage in it whether you are winning or losing, you do it just to satisfy the urge..only way to stop is to make that hard decision and try to restrict yourself

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It's mostly our emotions that are affected, leading to a shift in mindset. When addiction becomes severe, that's when professional help is necessary. Psychologists are likely the ones who can offer assistance. While I don't know the exact methods they use, they are trained professionals who are there for a reason. Their services come at a cost, but this also means that you're likely to receive effective treatment, almost guaranteeing recovery once you're in rehab.

I experienced addiction in the past, but it wasn't too serious, and I was able to manage and overcome it on my own.

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