Topic: Can Israeli - Palestinian conflict worsen the crisis? (Read 647 times)

An stable region means countries with vast amount of resources would be able to advance in different fields. For example see what China has done to US industries, imagine if an entire continent did that.

The best example to understand what I mean is comparing the situation with Europe pre World War 2, we can see how very little development happened during that time and how the economy was during the time when the entire region was destabilized by annual wars. Then look at what happened in post-WW2 Europe after the Union was formed and the wars stopped, bringing back stability.
For example the Germany we see today as the biggest economy of the bloc was once struggling with millions of people in absolute poverty with high unemployment rate.

Roughly 20 years ago they started a war with Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. That cost them about $10 trillion.
If they can pull a soft-colonization on Saudi Arabia, etc. without shooting a single bullet, obviously they'd choose that!

I'm not sure what you mean by "modern infrastructure". A country like Saudi Arabia is riddled with poverty and is far behind in development for basic infrastructure in majority of the country.
Don't just look at Mecca that is basically a "tourist" place they've developed because that is the picture that would be broadcast to the world. If you go a couple of blocks over, people are living in ruins.
Not to mention that Saudi regime is a dictatorship that doesn't even allow basic statistic about the situation in the country from coming out and nobody dares report on it either after what they did to the Washington Post reporter (chopped him up into little pieces).

Of course. In this world there are only hegemonies that exert control and dominance then there are other countries that accept being dominated by the hegemony to try and seek their personal or national interests under its shadow.
For example United States is a hegemony and Saudi Arabia is basically its colony. US dictates its policies and Saudi regime obeys and fulfills them while trying to seek their own personal interest since they run a dictatorship.

It's the same with Syria, a war torn country that is still struggling with terrorism, separatism, US occupation, food and energy crisis has to try and get close to a hegemony and play their big geopolitical game. So they play in favor of Russia and in return Russia is providing aid to Syria to for example fight ISIS and US. Gives some air defense to defend against Israeli terrorist attacks such as the one today that hit two civilian airfields in Aleppo and Damascus. Helps rebuild the infrastructure US and its proxies destroyed. and so on.

There are so many Jews in Russia that you can speak in Russian language in Israel without a problem.

I don't understand why does America needs "guard dog" in middle east and why does it want destabilization there? Why isn't there a war between America and Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc? Why didn't America destroy them and steal oil instead of paying them billions of dollars and letting them to build one of the greatest countries with modern infrastructure and modern everything? Couldn't America and Iran, Syria, Palestine and some other countries befriend with America and develop as beautiful countries as Saudi Arabia is? I don't understand this part, why is there a war between them instead of partnership where both benefits?


Btw do you know why does Syria and Hamas recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Oseti? Is that because these countries want a good relationship with Russia and do things in their favor? That's not fair to be honest, they shouldn't be recognizing the independence of Abkhazia and South Oseti because that's not true and everyone knows that. That territory has been a part of Georgia for more than a thousand year and Russians forced Georgian people during the war to leave these two places. Russia started a war to stop our process of joining a NATO because if some parts of your country is occupied, you can't join it.

Holocaust survivor Gina Smyatich, 90, was murdered on October 7 by a Hamas terrorist shot in the back of the head. Her body was discovered in her home in Kibbutz Kisufim, near the very border with Gaza. Based on the angle of the gunshot, it is assumed that the terrorists brought her to her knees and then shot her in the back of the head.



https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1712375565863322012
https://t.me/veraafanasyeva/26695

Hamas must die. Every last one of them. They are not human beings, they have no place on this earth.

Ok, now things are starting to look ugly:


He is not saying this just to let everyone know, right? I guess shit is really going to hit the fan this time.... 

We can analyze this from different perspectives.
-From the Western (mostly American) perspective:
In the post World War 2 era when the winners were "dividing the loot", one place with all the resources was West Asia. To exert power and control they needed a "guard dog" there hence Israel was created. The policy was to give all the help they can to create a strong military force there that stays stronger than everyone else so that they can always have that as a "dog" that attacks them and keeps them weak while also destabilizes the region that would then warrant foreign intervention and presence.
To create this rabid dog, they used the worst of the worst. Despite Israel sometimes being referred to as a "Jewish state" it is actually a "Zionist state". Zionists are the extremists of the Jews with extremely radical ideology.

-From the Zionist perspective:
It's all about Armageddon, end of the world and world domination with these extremists. They had a 3 stage plan throughout history (2000+ years). They've tried this a couple of times and they've always failed, interestingly before they reach their 80'th year. Israel is now 75 years old!
Stage 1: Build Israel, the promised land (anywhere) and gather strength.
Stage 2: Expand. The "between two waters" thing (Nile and Euphrates). Although the coins they made decades ago, maps they released and other intelligence talked about a much bigger plan of expansion that started by occupying Palestine and continued by annexing Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, parts of Turkey, Iraq, parts of Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, ...
Stage 3: "Cleansing the earth". You see the Zionists believe something along the lines of having a pure bloodline (from Jacob, grandson of Abraham) and IIRC they trace it back to Adam and Eve and say that everyone else (that's the entire world that is not a born Zionist) is a demon spawn and needs to either be put down or used as you would use an animal in the farm.
This plan was going well into stage two as they kept defeating the lauded Arab armies quickly and easily.

So this war was never with Palestine. It was between the Zionists and most of West Asia. However, at some point in about 40 years ago the Zionists stopped being able to advance in their neighbors soil and their defeats started piling on. That limited their atrocities to Palestine. For example they had once occupied a couple of their neighbors, like half of Lebanon and the capital was about to fall but as the tables turned (thanks to Iran creating a copy of itself which today the West likes to call it "Iran's proxy" aka Hezbollah) the Zionists were defeated and kicked out.

The recent conflict is only one in a serious of 7.5 decade long genocide against Palestinians and when any people are presented with the choice between elimination or resistance they will chose the later.

Now if we want to look at the most recent history we can see that in the past 4 years the Israeli structure is falling apart as they are getting more radical. For example the cabinet that keeps changing as the prime minister fails and keeps swapping between the worst extremists that not only have been threatening the region's super power, Iran, but also have been increasing their attacks on Palestinians. For example the number of raids on the Al-Aqsa mosque which is a very important Islamic holy place has significantly increased. Their bombings of Gaza and other Palestinian houses in the West Bank has also significantly increased. So was the Palestinian casualties.
This type of "explosion of anger" was expected. All of the members of Hamas that you see have had their family members brutally murdered by Israel, either in their air raids where they bomb their homes or by the hands of their armed soldiers or just by the settlers around Gaza that like shooting them from afar for fun!

Palestinians have tried everything over the years. They tried resisting, then they tried accepting to live side by side and even normalize relations to reach peace. That is the part where some of them sell their lands but it is estimated to be less than 2% of the lands that Israel is now illegally occupying.
As I said the Zionist plan was never to live side by side, their plan was genocide, expansion and world domination. So Palestinians, realizing that went back reality and resisting. Specially after they saw that despite them not fighting anymore, they were still getting killed every day.

As for Jews, they've always lived in the region. After all West Asia is the birthplace of all religions. For example Iran has all religions and each group (eg. Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, etc.) each have a seat in Iran's parliament. All these problems in the post-WW2 era started the day the "foreign Jews" were kicked out of Europe when the war ended and were shipped to West Asia creating the extremist regime of Israel.

Joseph Stalin was georgian but he hasn't done anything in favour of Georgians. And we aren't afraid of Russians, I am just saying that we don't want to become part of their Soviet Union, we prefer to be on our own at best but no one gives us possibility to be on our own but if we have to choose between two bad, Russia and America, we prefer later one because we have been with Russia and don't want to return there.

To be honest, that part of history doesn't matter much today. People forgot that, don't really care about that and I think it's good but our recent past has been with Russia and people can't forget that.
Btw if that part of history looks interesting for you, you can google Battle of Krtsanisi (Georgia vs Qajar Iran) and Battle of Didgori (there are many more but these two are very famous).

Btw you seem to be very educated about the recent history of middle east. I will be really glad and feel respected if you find a time to write down your opinion and situational analyze of why is there a war between Palestine and Israel, just talk about recent history. There are so many rumors, I don't really understand who is guily. As far as I know, historically, jerusalem has been a territory of jewish people and centuries later they managed to buy lands from Arab people and built their country on that land. Now, what's the problem between two?

I don't have much info on the history but I believe those wars were with the radicals who are not particularly Muslims, they just bear the name. The same radicals that Iran fought for centuries too. The same radicals that Iran is still fighting today such as of ISIS aka Da'esh that share their ideology with the al-Saud family ruling over Arabia.

Things would be unpredictable but I believe that if US were to declare war on Iran, the Iran's initial response would targeting the biggest and most significant US bases in a 2000 km radius which are all in the South of Iran (eg. Qatar, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia). The response would also be so massive and harsh that people and governments of any other country in that radius would rush to kick US out of their country themselves.

We witnessed a tiny version of it after January 8, 2020 when Iran dropped a little over a dozen hypersonic ballistic missiles with heavy warheads on two US bases in Iraq and how angry Arab regimes of other countries started contacting US demanding their evacuation in case US wanted to respond, which they couldn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfjxHjs0hKo
https://imadl.ir/Satellite%20imagery/2022/01%20-%20January/Jenuary%208,%202021%20--%20Satellite%20imagery%20and%20Geo-Location%20of%20ballistic%20missiles%20strike%20on%20Ain-al-assad%20base%20EN.jpg

Why are you afraid of Russians, not too long ago single Georgian killed 100 million Russians

Probably also mortars as the Iron Dome reacts to them as well. Mortar shells are very cheap and can easily overwhelm the defensive system.



They must be stupid because it's obviously better the Nazi Germany did not win. The perfect situation for these countries would be liberation by Allied forces and no annexation to the Soviet Union, but out of 2 possible outcomes, I'm pretty sure being part of the CCCP was better than being sent to concentration camps, locked in ghettos and murdered in gas chambers.
Had Stalin died in 1945, Russia would be in a state of chaos and fight for leadership and wouldn't have enough dominance in Potsdam to force its desired borders upon other countries.
Unfortunately, that ideal outcome did not happen.

Historically, Georgia had war with muslims for centuries because they wanted us to change our religion and Georgians were strictly sticking with Christianity. Btw we have good relationships right now with every muslim nation and they don't attack us too.
We have normal relationship with Iran, we import pharmaceuticals, milk powder and some other things from them but the problem is that we and America are strategic partners and there is no way this country is going to give up on NATO, we want to join it to protect ourselves from Russia.

If there is a war between America and Iran, we will be dragged in it. It's true that we aren't their neighbors but the distance between our borders is only 300KM and distance from our capital to Tabriz is 735KM. Since Georgia and America are strategic partners, there is a very high chance that America will store its soldiers or weapons in Georgia and this country will become Iran's target. USA failed to gain control on Armenia and Azerbaijan sticks with Turkey. Turkey is not America's puppet. Georgians purely stick with America, Europe and many Georgians will be more than happy to somehow join Germany I know this sounds funny

Yeah, but what a surprise: nobody gives a damn. It turns out some humans are more worth sympathy than others.


After carpet-bombing Palestine and turning significant part of it into ashes, Israel also shelled Syria:



So, it appears that as long as you suck Uncle Sam's d*ck you can do whatever you want.  

“The violations we documented were committed against the backdrop of Israel's ongoing illegal blockade of Gaza; this blockade is a key component of the apartheid regime established by the Israeli authorities. Palestinians in Gaza are under constant pressure, repressed, oppressed and segregated. Throughout the long 15 years during which the population of Gaza has been practically trapped, illegal attacks have been repeated over and over again, exacerbating the humanitarian crisis. In addition to investigating war crimes committed in Gaza, the ICC must, as part of its ongoing investigation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, also consider the crime of apartheid, which is a crime against humanity,” Agnes Callamard emphasized.

Quote from the Amnesty International report on war crimes by the Israeli army during the Gaza operation in August 2022.

And right now the whole world is watching as Israel has completely blocked off the Gaza Strip, turning it into a death camp for two million people and launching indiscriminate bombing attacks. This is the most massive genocide of the 21st century. What a shame.

It seems like we agree on more than I imagined except this part.
Georgia is far from Iran and doesn't even have any border with it to be able to start any wars, and Georgia  is already struggling with Russian intervention and the internal multipolarity that exists among the people and domestic power houses.
I'm also not aware of any major issues between the two countries that could lead to any sort of serious conflict.

The proxy wars the West wished to start with Iran was from all 4 sides: with Taliban in the east, Baku+Turkey(NATO) in the North, ISIS in the West, Arabs in the South.

• After Taliban took control they had to actually govern a country, people needed food, infrastructure was destroyed, they needed electricity, etc. So these cavemen realized they could no longer be "crazy" people like before so they betrayed United States and instead of destabilizing the region started an inhouse cleansing to remove the most extreme and are slowly becoming "normal". They've even been fighting with ISIS!
• Baku is too tiny and too insignificant on its own (30 to 50 precision strikes would end its entire military; one base alone in North Western Iranian border with Baku stores 150k loitering munitions) and since NATO is busy with Russia they can't do anything but be a nuisance. Turkey is also still struggling with hyper inflation, a massive budget and foreign reserve deficit and an energy crisis to be able to be a geopolitical player let alone a proxy
• ISIS was dismantled by Iran in Syria and Iraq as it was created so that plan is already failed. Other subsequent revivals and smaller groups were nipped in the bud.
• Arab dictatorships were whipped into submission after Iran started supporting the country they'd invaded 9 years ago and have been committing genocide there (I'm talking about Yemen) so now there is an extremely strong army right at their doorstep from the south east with an unlimited reach that has an unbreakable bond with Iran.

BTW this would all tie together with Israel as this terrorist organization was supposed to attack Iranian infrastructure as all these proxy wars were going on.

I don't know if we agree or disagree but let me tell you my honest opinion that is not just an opinion but the actual truth about Russia's war between Ukraine and my country.
Georgia and Ukraine are just puppet countries, the war is between Russia and the United States, I think we both agree on that. Georgia and Ukraine have been a part of Soviet Union, led by Russia and believe me, people in Soviet Union didn't have access to modern technology that was available during that moment, you couldn't buy good clothes without some connections, you couldn't buy a car or TV if you weren't an authoritative man or weren't a close relative of such one. People and school students were forced to work or they would face jail. I won't continue long, I hope you understand how bad life was there. Then, after the fall of soviet union, borders opened again and people started migration in Europe. Out of curiosity, our people saw that in Europe citizens live amazingly, have great life, modern technology, fun, etc, so, people of Georgia and Ukraine want to leave Russia forever and join the Europe and America for better life.
Now, the problem is that EU and America have their own interests. They want Ukraine to defeat Russia and Georgia to have a proxy war with Iran. Russia wants to build its soviet empire again. Do you understand how bad is the situation for both countries? These two countries have no other choice, being left with Russia means corruption and terrible life while there is a hope of light if we stay with west.

I think I would rather give credit to the Taliban than demeaning the capabilities of USA to achieve their objectives. The withdrawal from Afghanistan was something many were demanding in USA and it was becoming a taxing war which the people was not willing to continue to fund, specially since there was no apparent will of the previous Afghanistan government to secure themselves from Taliban.

It must be said that weapons of mass destruction as those held by United States and other superpowers around the world may not be effective against guerrilla combatants, if anything was taught by the tragedy of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, was their effectiveness against civil settlements and innocent population.

But you do realize that there were actually more wars in the past than in the present. In a big reset though maybe the world can recharge its lost energy since there will be fewer humans remaining and let's say everything goes totally back to the past; no electricity, internet, the use of fuel, etc. But there will be wars once against since humans are born greedy, dominating, and power-seeking. Not saying they are perfect because there are some that are even worse but without governments, the UN, etc. there will be more bloodshed and injustices.

Muahaha... you are delusional! Remember what happened in Afghanistan? They can't even defeat a bunch of Afghans armed with sticks and stones and you're talking about a nuclear superpower?  

Meanwhile, a US aircraft carrier strike group has arrived in the eastern Mediterranean Sea. The Pentagon had previously announced that it was moving the carrier Gerald R Ford to Israel to reassure Israelis.

A statement by Gen Michael “Erik” Kurilla of the US central command said:

If by Muslim nations you mean their regimes, then no. Almost all of them have been on the side of the terrorist organization (Israel) instead of Palestine. If you mean their people, then yes. We saw what people think of Zionists in Qatar FIFA World Cup 2022.
Even their regimes' statements in the past couple of days is in a way that they are still standing in the middle instead of showing any support for Palestine even in empty words.

Russia has always been a supporter of Israel, there are large number of Zionist immigrants occupying Palestine that came from Russia. There has been large number of cooperations between Israel and Russia in technology, weapons manufacturing, economy, etc. and Israel has many lobbies and infiltration inside Russia.
The fact that Russian statements are different now is only because Israel has sent help to Ukraine over the past year. Otherwise there is no actual support.

I didn't mean to belittle what's been happening in Ukraine but you have to admit that there is a big leap from war crimes committed by some Russian soldiers and 75 years of systematic genocide by Israel itself.

I can tell that we disagree on some matters like who started the war in Ukraine and why but let me tell you that I am well aware of the brutality of Russians. As a nation we bear that wound too. In WW2 despite being neutral and thousands of kilometers away from their fight, Soviets+Brits+Americans killed more people in my country than Germany lost (~9 million versus 4.8 ) just because we were weak at the time and we had a lot of resources they needed to steal.
Regime change hasn't changed their secular military tactics either. In our fight against ISIS inside Syria when United States was giving air support to ISIS, we needed to tip the balance so we brought Russian air force in, during that time we had countless "frictions" with Russia over their brutal ways as they wanted to simply raise entire villages and cities to the ground just because there may have been a single target to eliminate there.

I'm just quoting this for the future (after "matter of weeks") to laugh another time at this keyboard warrior who has no understanding of the world

In my opinion all the leaders, presidents, kings, prime ministers, government officials of all the nations should go through "a walk of shame" and put in jail for the rest of their lives. This world needs a restart, something along the lines of Noa's flood and the event which killed dinosaurs. If you think about it, things are wrong from the root,  the tree of humanity needs correction, only way to achieve that is to terminate the population and rebuild the civilization  again.

This kind of restart is required every 10 to 12 thousand years. Nothing will change until the source of all evil is dead.

US, ISIS, RU, UK, Israel, Mullas, Nazis, Hitler, Trump, Satoshi, they all are the same ( evil humans ), except the last name.😂

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While you are at it, don't forget to watch 2 kids a day, by David Wachsmann.

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A world where we treat our children like that and nobody says anything about it, yeah it'd be better to restart this world. Starting with goliaths.🤔

Currently, Chuck Schumer, leader of the Democratic majority in the US Senate, is on an official visit to China; yesterday he met with Xi. Came to arrange for Xi to visit San Francisco in November. Relatively recently, Blinken also was in China. By your logic, does this mean that China supports the US and that the US supports China?

Russia does not support either side of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, but has diplomatic contacts with representatives of both sides. This is normal. When Zelensky wants to end the conflict with Russia, taking into account the real state of affairs, Russia will be ready to listen to him carefully. Or does Ukraine still hope to win?