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Topic: Can one have any expertise in Speculating? - page 6. (Read 1603 times)

legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
December 07, 2019, 12:47:47 AM
#31
I'm a big believer in sentiment analysis, but I'm really skeptical of these automated tools. The eToro project is basically just an analysis of 80 keywords, which alone sounds way too primitive to accurately capture market sentiment.

Thanks for all that info! I actually also, if forced to choose, would probably choose sentiment over anything else, although I rather feel it is a lot more intangible than any system can currently attempt to quantify (for example, all those fear and greed indices). I think almost every boom we've seen at least in Bitcoin is explained less by TA than by sentiment.

BUT what you shared only proves what I suspected. It's hard to derive sentiment from spammers, gamblers and people with vested interest (shillers, devs, paid influencers, etc.). Filter all the motivated noise and there's not much to work on. And perhaps it shouldn't filter those out since they have equal impact on retails users no?

It's hard to know. Social media shills and manipulators seem totally laughable to me, but to a newbie? They probably have a non-zero impact.

At the same time, quantifying that sort of thing from a sentiment point of view is difficult. After all, an altcoin shill (or really anyone hyping up their bags) generally represents supply: they are trying to unload their bags on other investors. They act bullish but really they want to sell. Is that bullish, bearish, or neither?

I think it's all just way too complex to analyze with such simple logic. The problem with algorithmic approaches is they aren't good at distinguishing among truths, half-truths, outright deceptions, being clouded by biases, etc.

In my experience, there is no replacement for looking at how traders are positioning themselves. Commitment of trader data (shorts vs. longs) is one thing to consider. Another thing to consider is what analysts are predicting. When everyone is piled on one side of the market, it's usually informative. When sentiment and TA align on higher time frames, we get very powerful moves.
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 500
December 05, 2019, 10:30:16 AM
#30
Some brief thoughts on this subject:

I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?
well, speculation is sometimes made based on data that already existed before, so it could be right, and it could be wrong. if there is someone who is really accurate in speculating, that person is most likely already to be a rich person. Well, maybe there are people like that, but I think they will only create a special group and not spread the information they have.
but, what I think is that no one has speculated very accurately in every speculation he made. there will definitely be mistakes he made in speculating.
sr. member
Activity: 1540
Merit: 420
www.Artemis.co
December 05, 2019, 09:09:37 AM
#29
is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?
If someone is pro in speculating then probably he had accumulated bunch of experiences speculating. Though we have different impressions and ways on how we interpret the markets so any method we use is acceptable as long as its what you feel or foresee.
hero member
Activity: 1246
Merit: 529
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December 05, 2019, 05:25:30 AM
#28
Some brief thoughts on this subject:

I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?

Lol. Probably an experienced speculator, yes. But expertise? I don't think so. Speculations don't really have any solid, objective basis. It's based on someone's hunch over the possibilities. If you've been speculating for a long time, you're guesses would probably be more reliable than others but of course, they'll only be by your own standards.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 1133
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December 05, 2019, 04:47:42 AM
#27
Some brief thoughts on this subject:

I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?

Whoa! I didn't know someone would ask something like this.

Well, you could be better in it because of reading too much of what people are trying to speculate.
You could jot down how many are doing just the same or how many are going against the flow.
In my case, I go against the flow. I see speculators that are in the same wave and I dont really want to ride it.
It is more risky though considering you don't have much at your side but somehow I think I did quite well.
sr. member
Activity: 2422
Merit: 357
December 04, 2019, 06:51:48 PM
#26
Some brief thoughts on this subject:

I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?
Its possible and it depends on you whether to follow that speculation just know the risk of investing without the right knowledge and you should also know that some speculations are creating FUD. If you want to be better, start working now and do it on your own. Despite of the market condition, we must not stop from learning the best way to speculate.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3684
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December 05, 2019, 03:05:31 AM
#26
That's actually the entire premise of all these prediction-based AI/big data blockchain projects launching since 2017. Just believing that crowd wisdom eventually prevails in speculating, no TA to reverify findings, just picking the ones that have the highest accuracy. In fact, a new tool built by eToro if I recall just a month or two ago? It trawls through the entire Twitter space, just going through every possible speculation and then derives signals for people to trade on.

Crowd intelligence? I don't believe it works actually, or it does until it doesn't.

I'm a big believer in sentiment analysis, but I'm really skeptical of these automated tools. The eToro project is basically just an analysis of 80 keywords, which alone sounds way too primitive to accurately capture market sentiment.

Thanks for all that info! I actually also, if forced to choose, would probably choose sentiment over anything else, although I rather feel it is a lot more intangible than any system can currently attempt to quantify (for example, all those fear and greed indices). I think almost every boom we've seen at least in Bitcoin is explained less by TA than by sentiment.

BUT what you shared only proves what I suspected. It's hard to derive sentiment from spammers, gamblers and people with vested interest (shillers, devs, paid influencers, etc.). Filter all the motivated noise and there's not much to work on. And perhaps it shouldn't filter those out since they have equal impact on retails users no?
hero member
Activity: 2268
Merit: 579
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
December 04, 2019, 06:36:33 PM
#25
Some brief thoughts on this subject:

I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?
Firstly, you need to understand that market speculation are not always right and if you totally have the passion to become a speculator there's chance that you could be better than others but i don't think that should be your goal cause may somehow affect your speculating knowledge. However, reading speculating topics will somehow improve your knowledge but not to the peak cause you still need to do some depth research in other to have unique understanding.
hero member
Activity: 2660
Merit: 651
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December 04, 2019, 06:16:19 PM
#24
It is very possible. A lot of good cryptocurrency speculators are good at it because they have come to master it and be good in it. But they can give exact theory or price, instead they will be closer to it.
If you are asking if one can take a course on it and have it as a certificate, then I can say it's somewhat not necessary. Nobody cares about the certificate you have in it but how true you are to your speculation.
No, he's not talking about having a certificate in speculation but he want to be an expert in market speculation and he thought can make it happen through reading of the speculating topics on this forum which is wrong cause he actually can learn it through some YouTube video and research.

full member
Activity: 1736
Merit: 121
December 04, 2019, 04:42:32 PM
#23
Some brief thoughts on this subject:

I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?

Speculation sometimes is based on analysed indices which are deduced either from the past to make a future guess. Some people are gifted with that no doubt. So base on such gift, they could always or most times be right in giving out speculated outcomes.
hero member
Activity: 1806
Merit: 672
December 04, 2019, 04:03:02 PM
#22
There is no such thing as a "better" speculator as what you are still doing is speculating, you are just simply reading rumor after rumor without backing it up with anything which doesn't make your bet highly likely to happen. If you want a more sensible approach to speculating I think the best thing to do is to do your own analysis not only by doing a background research of the rumor but also reading about the charts through technical analysis and see if it is backing it up as well. Merely speculating won't lead you to anything.
sr. member
Activity: 868
Merit: 267
SecureShift.io | Crypto-Exchange
December 04, 2019, 03:12:12 PM
#21
Some brief thoughts on this subject:

I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?
Speculation is just an attempt to make people believe what they say, and then can benefit themselves. 
Like speculators, traders will always make speculations so that they can get positions to sell or buy what they expect.  But speculators are usually people who have a lot of fans.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
December 04, 2019, 02:15:42 PM
#20
That's actually the entire premise of all these prediction-based AI/big data blockchain projects launching since 2017. Just believing that crowd wisdom eventually prevails in speculating, no TA to reverify findings, just picking the ones that have the highest accuracy. In fact, a new tool built by eToro if I recall just a month or two ago? It trawls through the entire Twitter space, just going through every possible speculation and then derives signals for people to trade on.

Crowd intelligence? I don't believe it works actually, or it does until it doesn't.

I'm a big believer in sentiment analysis, but I'm really skeptical of these automated tools. The eToro project is basically just an analysis of 80 keywords, which alone sounds way too primitive to accurately capture market sentiment. The poor quality of the data makes interpreting it highly subjective too:

Quote
“We’re actually eliminating about 90% of tweets because we think they’re coming from bots or people trying to manipulate the market.”

The portfolio has performed poorly so far, down 25% since launch. No surprise there, especially given what they're investing in:

Quote
At launch, the portfolio included five different crypto assets: 47.24% stake in DASH; 23.92% EOS; 21.86% XRP; 5.01% MIOTA; and 1.97% ETC. It rebalances every month.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
December 04, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
#19
Well, natural born speculators are very rare and they don't have any learned skills about speculation, it's kind of sixth sense. So, we can't speak of any kind of expertise and I don't think that speculation can be learned. Using other peoples' speculation might turn good but still you can't know how good speculator is.

All people are 'natural born' speculators. Cheesy

I think you're reading it a bit too far. Anyone can speculate. All it takes is to buy x/y/z asset and think/hope it will go higher. There you are speculating on the price to increase. It requires no special ability or skill, it's something we apply in more facets of life.

Traders just go by the charts and calculate the probabilities of certain pattern formations to break either up or down. Some patterns tend to break 70% up and 30% down or vice versa. If you take 10 trades speculating on the price to break up you'll be more right than wrong. This doesn't require you to be a top trader, just know the market you are trading.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3684
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December 04, 2019, 01:11:12 PM
#18
That's actually the entire premise of all these prediction-based AI/big data blockchain projects launching since 2017. Just believing that crowd wisdom eventually prevails in speculating, no TA to reverify findings, just picking the ones that have the highest accuracy. In fact, a new tool built by eToro if I recall just a month or two ago? It trawls through the entire Twitter space, just going through every possible speculation and then derives signals for people to trade on.

Crowd intelligence? I don't believe it works actually, or it does until it doesn't.
hero member
Activity: 1750
Merit: 589
December 04, 2019, 11:59:27 AM
#17
Well, I guess you could say everyone started from copying off from another. It's basically stealing knowledge and using it for yourself. It's not bad, but still, it is needed that you yourself have your own strategy, your own style, and your own way of development compared to other. Plus, it is kind of impossible for one to develop without even a simple starting point to go to, and if there's none, then you can't really call it speculation anymore, since the basics are already dead just in the beginning.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1068
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December 04, 2019, 11:14:48 AM
#16
Some brief thoughts on this subject:

I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?

in my observation, natural born speculators have an intuitive sense about market psychology and sentiment. they are generally contrarians---they must be, since the crowd is usually wrong. i definitely improved as a trader when i learned to play against my own fearful/greedy tendencies, and against the prevailing market sentiment. (ie "buy when there is blood in the streets)

in that sense, you could certainly use other peoples' speculations to your advantage, by observing sentiment and playing the contrarian when bullish/bearish sentiment becomes extreme.

Well, natural born speculators are very rare and they don't have any learned skills about speculation, it's kind of sixth sense. So, we can't speak of any kind of expertise and I don't think that speculation can be learned. Using other peoples' speculation might turn good but still you can't know how good speculator is.
sr. member
Activity: 2842
Merit: 326
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
December 04, 2019, 10:09:07 AM
#15
Some brief thoughts on this subject:
I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?
Anyone can form a theory and the meaning of speculation is to form a theory without any evidence and hence everyone can be a speculator and everyone can start their own theory and if millions of people speculate about a certain event, then someone will have a correct prediction.
There is no expertise in speculating as far as i know.
All the speculations are calculated guess formulated to theories some of the speculators would backed it up with some lagging indicators thus relate their speculations with TA while others are mere guessing without any proof, its very difficult to predict the price of cryptos without any sentiments.
hero member
Activity: 1302
Merit: 532
December 04, 2019, 09:33:30 AM
#14
Some brief thoughts on this subject:
I noticed that speculators often do a lot of speculating. With that said, is it possible to focus on speculating only, reading nothing else but all the speculating topics and then somehow becoming better at speculating than others?
Anyone can form a theory and the meaning of speculation is to form a theory without any evidence and hence everyone can be a speculator and everyone can start their own theory and if millions of people speculate about a certain event, then someone will have a correct prediction.
There is no expertise in speculating as far as i know.
full member
Activity: 602
Merit: 102
December 04, 2019, 09:07:06 AM
#13
Speculations are not just made based on assumptions; they are usually made after carrying out some analysis. Speculations are not always precise, and as such you have good speculations and bad ones.
One can actually have an expertise in speculating, if you do your analysis right most of the time.
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