Can Satoshi Nakamoto remove the 21 million BTC limit? - page 2.

bettercrypto

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Quote from: JayTrain on January 20, 2024, 12:30:58 PM

I think this is just the opinion of one person and also a criticism of Bitcoin about the possible lifting of restrictions on the number of Bitcoins. And this opinion does not pose any threat to the principles of Bitcoin itself, including its limited supply. On the other hand, this may provoke uncertainty in the market...in any case, I think that over such a long period of Bitcoin’s existence, many have not yet doubted its main properties. So let me emphasize, this is just one person's opinion.

You're right, that's just an assessment by OP where a question like that might just pop up because for others it doesn't make sense. Then, for me, it is also impossible to remove the 21 million bitcoin supply again. Do you believe the OP's opinion?

That's why most of the people who commented here also don't believe and agree with what Op said, to be honest. Then it's right that it doesn't pose a threat to us, actually.

MFahad

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

Quote from: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-says-satashi-may-erase-bitcoin-supply-limit-backs-tokenizing

Referring to the limited supply of Bitcoin, which is to mirror the properties of gold, Dimon said he doubted the finality of the 21 million Bitcoin supply maximum, saying: "I think there's a good chance, when we get to that 20 million bitcoins...Satashi [sic] is going to come on there, laugh hysterically, go quiet, and all Bitcoins [are] going to be erased. How the hell [do] you know it’s going to stop at 21?"

I would say they are making no sense with their remarks. First off, Satoshi is not coming back, and even if he did, he wouldn't come back and spoil what his creation has achieved so far by removing the limit on the supply and increasing it which would affect the value of the coin significantly, of course. Secondly, the whole cryptocurrency industry will start having doubts and lose trust in Bitcoin if something like that happens, I can't even think about it theoretically.

Satoshi created Bitcoin as a decentralized cryptocurrency that would be running on a public chain that would be controlled by miners who would use their computing power to mine blocks. He can't just come out of nowhere and make changes in the network when all the miners have been helping the blockchain work since the beginning.

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I think this is just the opinion of one person and also a criticism of Bitcoin about the possible lifting of restrictions on the number of Bitcoins. And this opinion does not pose any threat to the principles of Bitcoin itself, including its limited supply. On the other hand, this may provoke uncertainty in the market...in any case, I think that over such a long period of Bitcoin’s existence, many have not yet doubted its main properties. So let me emphasize, this is just one person's opinion.

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Quote from: Natsuu on January 20, 2024, 09:10:13 AM

Quote from: Z-tight on January 20, 2024, 08:47:37 AM

Satoshi created BTC, but does not control BTC; that is the beauty of the network, freedom, permissionless and censorship resistant. Satoshi didn't create the network in such a way that he could come back at any time and take an arbitrary decision, if it were created in that way, so many people would not have bothered to use BTC or have any interest in it.

Sometimes people say what they do not understand because they want to criticize, or maybe they even understand it but they just want to elicit some kind of reaction from people. I'll advise that if people want to get good information about BTC they should not listen to Jamie Dimon.

It's important we seek information from reliable sources when learning about BTC, rather than relying on criticisms from those who may not fully understand its principles, like Jamie Dimon i think?

The fact that anyone can criticise in any way will not change anything in Bitcoin. A comment from Jamie Dimon made me wonder how he views Bitcoin. The total supply of Bitcoin is already said to be 21 million. If Satoshi Nakamoto takes any decision to increase or decrease this supply, BTC's grave will be written. It will be clear that he has been anonymous for a long time. But I consider these things to be fictional stories. Any such attempt will fail completely. Moreover, if any such action is implemented, how can we call it decentralised? I think Jamie Dimon has no basis for such words.

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

Quote from: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-says-satashi-may-erase-bitcoin-supply-limit-backs-tokenizing

Referring to the limited supply of Bitcoin, which is to mirror the properties of gold, Dimon said he doubted the finality of the 21 million Bitcoin supply maximum, saying: "I think there's a good chance, when we get to that 20 million bitcoins...Satashi [sic] is going to come on there, laugh hysterically, go quiet, and all Bitcoins [are] going to be erased. How the hell [do] you know it’s going to stop at 21?"

He should understand that even if Satoshi reappears today, he will be like any other developer maintaining bitcoin or like any other decision maker. His decision will not be the ultimate. This alone should negate the type of question an acclaimed CEO asked. Does he understand the power of open source? Now, let's assume that Satoshi has reappeared and has the power to change the 21 million cap, how will that benefit Satoshi as a person?
I don't know if it is better to be a full member in bitcointalk forum than to be a CEO of what one does not understand.

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How dumb the crypto community is becoming to give someone with no knowledge of basics as critique of cryptocurrency.

If Satoshi came and hard fork to bring more coins off a new branch it will be just another coin not just bitcoin and people won't use that coin but why Satoshi will do that? Roll Eyes

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

Quote from: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-says-satashi-may-erase-bitcoin-supply-limit-backs-tokenizing

Referring to the limited supply of Bitcoin, which is to mirror the properties of gold, Dimon said he doubted the finality of the 21 million Bitcoin supply maximum, saying: "I think there's a good chance, when we get to that 20 million bitcoins...Satashi [sic] is going to come on there, laugh hysterically, go quiet, and all Bitcoins [are] going to be erased. How the hell [do] you know it’s going to stop at 21?"

Janie Dimon only knows about fiat, and thinks that because he is successful means that he knows about bitcoin technology. I wouldn't blame him for such thinking and speech because this is how the government manipulate fiat by printing more money and he has brought that thought into his head, forgetting that bitcoin has a protocol and it is design to follow such protocol. He has shown the public that he doesn't understand anything about bitcoin and that there is no back door to bitcoin manipulation. It is because of the way that bitcoin was designed that made it more valuable and impossible for anyone to change anything in its design. The nodes are programmed to to make their own decisions and all nodes decisions are the same, this makes it difficult for anyone to change anything because bitcoin network gives complete decentralization.

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The thought of Bitcoin increasing more than its initial 21 million cap is a fright to start with. Everyone knows that will kill Bitcoin and inversely, the crypto industry. I've yet to see any project whose initial cap got increased and it retained its performance before tokens were added. It has always been the near death of such a project. A few projects I invested in that did that actually couldn't recover from such action. They rebranded and moved to other chains, yet it ended in futility. Those where even projects said to be centralized. If such happens to a decentralized project like Bitcoin the community's confident level will nosedive immediately. I wouldn't put a cent on it, myself.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on January 19, 2024, 05:54:22 PM

That limited amount that makes bitcoin deflationary can not just be added to or erased. What that will cause the supply to be altered will means that miners will all agree to that and nobody will agree to that. People want it to stay at 21 million BTC. I speculate that any attempt to do anything to alter the 21 million supply will only be a failed attempt.

Never expect anything good about bitcoin from bitcoin critics.

Jamie Dimon, expressed his personal opinion and that is what it is, he can not speak for the multitude of adopters that have accepted Bitcoin the way Satoshi Nakamoto, designed it, Bitcoin ETF has happened, bull run is building up in top gear, and investors are increasing, there's nothing to worry about. I believe that nothing can alter the 21million Bitcoin limit, he is a Bitcoin hater so we shouldn't expect anything good about Bitcoin from him and other critics.

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Quote from: Z-tight on January 20, 2024, 08:47:37 AM

Satoshi created BTC, but does not control BTC; that is the beauty of the network, freedom, permissionless and censorship resistant. Satoshi didn't create the network in such a way that he could come back at any time and take an arbitrary decision, if it were created in that way, so many people would not have bothered to use BTC or have any interest in it.

Sometimes people say what they do not understand because they want to criticize, or maybe they even understand it but they just want to elicit some kind of reaction from people. I'll advise that if people want to get good information about BTC they should not listen to Jamie Dimon.

I think so too. The decentralized nature of BTC is a key feature that sets it apart.. It's important we seek information from reliable sources when learning about BTC, rather than relying on criticisms from those who may not fully understand its principles, like Jamie Dimon i think?

Z-tight

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Satoshi created BTC, but does not control BTC; that is the beauty of the network, freedom, permissionless and censorship resistant. Satoshi didn't create the network in such a way that he could come back at any time and take an arbitrary decision, if it were created in that way, so many people would not have bothered to use BTC or have any interest in it.

Sometimes people say what they do not understand because they want to criticize, or maybe they even understand it but they just want to elicit some kind of reaction from people. I'll advise that if people want to get good information about BTC they should not listen to Jamie Dimon.

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 19, 2024, 07:27:29 PM

I don't know about the code behind bitcoin but 21 million is what everyone believes to this day. If bitcoin exceeds 21 million then trust in bitcoin will collapse overnight and bitcoin will be considered a scam

It's not about opinions or beliefs here; there's a hard-coded cap in Bitcoin's protocol that tops out at 21 million coins. But many people forget that Bitcoin is open source. Anyone can poke around the code, do the math themselves, and see that hard stop.

So when some people claim that developers or insiders could change the 21 million mark if they wanted, they're showing that they obviously don't know what they're talking about. No such 'limit per se actually exists. You've got block rewards that keep halving on a set schedule and past that it's just simple multiplication - the protocol handles the rest. So if somebody says otherwise, take it with a grain of salt. The coin count itself might be abstract, but the logic governing it is carved in stone.

thecodebear

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I'm guessing, after years of bashing bitcoin, Dimon has at least done basic research on what Bitcoin is enough to know why the 21 million limit can never be changed. As a banker, I doubt he would hate Bitcoin so much if he didn't have a clue how it worked and how powerful it is, otherwise he would have no reason to be afraid of it and no reason to hate it.

But, being a bitcoin hater, he understands that the vast majority of people have essentially zero knowledge of how bitcoin works and so most people don't actually understand why the supply cap can't be changed, and he is trying to attack bitcoin by sowing doubt in their minds. He's hoping to turn off potential future bitcoiners by seeding lies about Bitcoin in their minds.

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

The amount of bitcoin to be in supply must have been really considered before bitcoins were limited to 21 million. And also, with many things that has happened to bitcoins and all the milestones it has reached, Satoshi has remained silent and still anonymous. I do not see a situation that the amount of bitcoin be increased when the 21 million and decimals have been mined. Bitcoins will also still in circulation, there will still be buying and selling ongoing, and also use as currency, so there will not be a need to try to increase the amount available.

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

Quote from: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-says-satashi-may-erase-bitcoin-supply-limit-backs-tokenizing

Referring to the limited supply of Bitcoin, which is to mirror the properties of gold, Dimon said he doubted the finality of the 21 million Bitcoin supply maximum, saying: "I think there's a good chance, when we get to that 20 million bitcoins...Satashi [sic] is going to come on there, laugh hysterically, go quiet, and all Bitcoins [are] going to be erased. How the hell [do] you know it’s going to stop at 21?"

First of all let's loot at the possibility for that, this is something that had already been programmed to only exist under the limit of 21 millions bitcoin to be mined, after this, the miners will have no reason to get stranded because they will depend on transaction fees, accepting this also will mean that bitcoin doesn't have a fix supply which we have already been preaching about and that equally makes no difference with fiat with unlimited supply, having this alone could make some believed it could be manipulated and untrusted.

JP Morgan and Jamie Dimon might have only suggested this as the way they feel and not bringing it as an idea to see come through, this is more of an interrogation through the media and everyone speaking his own opinion, which could really be something entirely different from the way bitcoin is or can be, but that doesn't suggest the things we should also expect to be in the same direction on what they are thinking about, the bitcoin network was set, it's working perfectly as it has been created for and there's no more to add or deduct irrespective of the people's opinions except the developers shift ground which is likely most impossible.

moneystery

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the limited supply of 21 million bitcoins is an advantage that differentiates bitcoin compared to other banking products. with a limited supply, it makes bitcoin more valuable (limited supply will make the value increase in line with increasing demand).

any attempt to increase the supply of bitcoin is a stupid thing done by stupid people who want to destroy the credibility of bitcoin. because forever there will be 21 million bitcoins and it will not increase or decrease.

so instead of wasting energy trying to intervene in bitcoin, it would be better for jamie to develop his own coin and try to offer it to other people who want it.

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My question would be.... Why would anyone be stupid enough to accept this? When you increase the supply ...you decrease the value of your current coins.

So network participants will not run that code and it will have to go to a Hard fork that almost nobody would support. It will be interesting to do this and to see what the response would be, just to prove to Jamie Dimon and the other haters that they are clueless. (Bitcoin is not like Fiat currency, you cannot simply switch on the money printers and increase the supply... you need consensus from the participants in that network) Cool

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

Quote from: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-says-satashi-may-erase-bitcoin-supply-limit-backs-tokenizing

Referring to the limited supply of Bitcoin, which is to mirror the properties of gold, Dimon said he doubted the finality of the 21 million Bitcoin supply maximum, saying: "I think there's a good chance, when we get to that 20 million bitcoins...Satashi [sic] is going to come on there, laugh hysterically, go quiet, and all Bitcoins [are] going to be erased. How the hell [do] you know it’s going to stop at 21?"

Not enough bitcoins for a bitcoin critic?

Whatever they say, this is all pure speculation on this topic. All the words spoken by Bitcoin critics are aimed at highlighting the shortcomings of bitcoin and demonizing it.

In theory, anything is possible, but in practice, the probability of this is about zero.

In one of his posts here @satoshi said:

Quote from: satoshi on June 21, 2010, 12:48:26 PM

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.

This statement goes against what Jamie Dimon said, which makes Jamie Dimon’s words meaningless and far from reality.

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It is somewhat understandable that a senior citizen has a poor understanding of how Bitcoin works. Unfortunately, this is how a lot of anti-Bitcoin people think. The ones who are the loudest about wanting to see Bitcoin banned often lack enough comprehension to even know what they are opposing.

Dimon’s statement is reminiscent of Elizabeth Warren’s “shadowy super coders” comment. It is fine to be ignorant on certain subjects but these politicians and banking elites who have shown ineptitude in regard to Bitcoin should not be the ones influencing policy on this matter.

Topic: Can Satoshi Nakamoto remove the 21 million BTC limit? - page 2. (Read 725 times)