Can Satoshi Nakamoto remove the 21 million BTC limit? - page 3.

vjudeu

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But is there a point from satoshi's post that he'd already told about that it won't be changed and it will stay to the same supply limit?

https://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2009-January/014994.html

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Code:

Total circulation will be 21,000,000 coins. It'll be distributed
to network nodes when they make blocks, with the amount cut in half
every 4 years.

first 4 years: 10,500,000 coins
next 4 years: 5,250,000 coins
next 4 years: 2,625,000 coins
next 4 years: 1,312,500 coins
etc...

When that runs out, the system can support transaction fees if
needed. It's based on open market competition, and there will
probably always be nodes willing to process transactions for free.

iBaba

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Satoshi Nakomoto have already made himself out of the bitcoin space and does not want to attach himself to the advancement and future of the bitcoin technology. I know there's this curiosity that have been created in the minds of bitcoin users about the Bitcoin founder's influence in the future of the bitcoin technology.

I have been as curious as any other person about Satoshi Nakomoto and Bitcoin. However, I know he has gone and gone for the good so the bitcoin future is right in our own hands and we have the ability to determine, to a very large extent, the future of the bitcoin technology.

pooya87

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon

To be critic of something, one must first understand that thing!
A criminal like Jamie Dimon neither understands Bitcoin nor wants to. He is a FUD spreader when it comes to Bitcoin.

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made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

It's not even worth discussing here and wasting our time. His FUD about "bitcoin is fraud" is not forgotten and this new FUD is also the continuation of his FUD campaign against Bitcoin.

Z_MBFM

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Quote from: leonair on January 19, 2024, 10:15:40 PM

Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

Quote from: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-says-satashi-may-erase-bitcoin-supply-limit-backs-tokenizing

Referring to the limited supply of Bitcoin, which is to mirror the properties of gold, Dimon said he doubted the finality of the 21 million Bitcoin supply maximum, saying: "I think there's a good chance, when we get to that 20 million bitcoins...Satashi [sic] is going to come on there, laugh hysterically, go quiet, and all Bitcoins [are] going to be erased. How the hell [do] you know it’s going to stop at 21?"

Bitcoin is fully decentralized and it is fundamentally created so that only 21 million Bitcoins will ever be created. I don't know if this is possible and on the other hand if the person or group named Sotoshi is still alive. And do they have the ability to edit Bitcoin since it is built to be decentralized. And all Bitcoin users know that the supply of Bitcoin is limited, so if the limit is increased, it is a big question whether people will have such confidence in Bitcoin.

I agree with one of your statements that if the Bitcoin supply limit is increased then many people will lose faith in Bitcoin. Because people are more attracted to Bitcoin because of its limited supply limit and its popularity, many people hold Bitcoin in the belief that the price of Bitcoin will increase a lot in the future. So if it is now announced that the supply limit of Bitcoin has been increased then people's confidence in Bitcoin will go away. So I don't agree with increasing the supply of Bitcoin either. It should remain as it is so that Bitcoin does not lose its value

0t3p0t

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Quote from: roller33 on January 19, 2024, 05:55:49 PM

Well, the 21 million BTC is a fundamental aspect of Bitcoin's design. Changing this limit would require a consensus from the network participants, which I believe it is unlikely given the strong commitment to Bitcoin's original protocol.

It also would alter Bitcoin's scarcity value and economic model.

Dimon's comment might be speculative or aimed at provoking thought, but it's good to remember the decentralized nature of Bitcoin that makes such changes pretty hard to make.

I believe that making such a change could mean a huge decrease on BTC value and even the loss of trust on the coin.

Yeah and Mr. Trump is not a fan of this as he wanted it to remain decentralized and of course we all wanted the same. Whales and institutions will surely dump huge amount of their Bitcoins if it will happen no doubt about that and that would be very disastrous to the crypto community and market.

gunhell16

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With the price Bitcoin has now and the potential it can reach in the future, I doubt what Dimon "The Demon" is saying. This is what I called him because everything he said is not true and most people know that.

Like, if I were the one who made or created Bitcoin, why would I remove that total supply when I see that it has already helped many people with financial problems around the world and that Bitcoin has become a way to solve the problems of most people around the world? So the purpose of creating Bitcoin is to provide a solution to the institution's financial problems. Right?

Poker Player

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Quote from: SilverCryptoBullet on January 19, 2024, 09:34:19 PM

Satoshi Nakamoto can not and we can not.

JP Morgan CEO, Jamie must do his research and learn about basics. His statement like this means he did not do any research and did not find any basic about Bitcoin.

Dimon has a way of making a fool of himself, it's normal for him to go wandering around with the things he says about Bitcoin if he doesn't know the basics. You don't have to have great technical knowledge to know that and that the only way there would be to do it is to make a fork to which the majority of the community would change, as adaseb says. I didn't pay much attention to what he says already, but after seeing this, less so.

hitsnorth

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Quote from: adaseb on January 19, 2024, 11:59:24 PM

Satoshi himself can’t really do much anymore. He can update the code but you need to have the majority accept it and run the nodes and miners to switch over.

This is the reason why it took forever to get segwit activated, it was very controversial at the time and many refused to signal that they allow the segwit fork to happen.

So I doubt he will be able to double the supply, the chain would die pretty much. No miner would mine a chain that they knew would dump in value.

And we don't even know if he's still alive. Besides all down if increasing the supply, most likely it won't ever be possible to be made.

adaseb

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Satoshi himself can’t really do much anymore. He can update the code but you need to have the majority accept it and run the nodes and miners to switch over.

This is the reason why it took forever to get segwit activated, it was very controversial at the time and many refused to signal that they allow the segwit fork to happen.

So I doubt he will be able to double the supply, the chain would die pretty much. No miner would mine a chain that they knew would dump in value.

mamesso

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Many aspects have been taken into account by the originator of Bitcoin including its anonymous identity, basic aspects that are only available in 21 million Bitcoins including its decentralized nature. When Satoshi introduced Bitcoin to the public, at that time he was 100% sure that his creation was perfect. lifting the limit on the number of bitcoins could increase miners' income in the short term, but it would highlight one of the main arguments for investing in Bitcoin, namely its scarcity.

One of the attractions of investors starting to come to the Bitcoin industry is because of its fixed supply, lifting the limit on the number of bitcoins could remove a fundamental driver of Bitcoin's value proposition. In theory this change would increase miner income in Bitcoin, but this change would cause a huge price drop resulting in miner losses in fiat.

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The hard cap on Bitcoin is secured from alteration by its incentive structure and governance mechanism. The entities that govern Bitcoin's ruleset have significant incentives to fight a change to the hard cap because of the network's architecture, but those who wish to change it have no power over the network.

Source: Can Bitcoin's hard cap of 21 million be changed?

bobbybkk

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I think there are far more bitcoins:

OK, not exactly bitcoins but units of bitcoins that can be used. Each Bitcoin can be split into Satoshies, 100 millionst of a Bitcoin.

So the total amount of available Bitcoins units (Satoshies) is 21 million x 100 million. So plenty of units.....

So maybe in the far future we are discussing the value of Satoshies instead of the value of a single Bitcoin.....

Just saying

fuguebtc

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Quote from: leonair on January 19, 2024, 10:15:40 PM

Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

Quote from: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-says-satashi-may-erase-bitcoin-supply-limit-backs-tokenizing

Referring to the limited supply of Bitcoin, which is to mirror the properties of gold, Dimon said he doubted the finality of the 21 million Bitcoin supply maximum, saying: "I think there's a good chance, when we get to that 20 million bitcoins...Satashi [sic] is going to come on there, laugh hysterically, go quiet, and all Bitcoins [are] going to be erased. How the hell [do] you know it’s going to stop at 21?"

Bitcoin is fully decentralized and it is fundamentally created so that only 21 million Bitcoins will ever be created. I don't know if this is possible and on the other hand if the person or group named Sotoshi is still alive. And do they have the ability to edit Bitcoin since it is built to be decentralized. And all Bitcoin users know that the supply of Bitcoin is limited, so if the limit is increased, it is a big question whether people will have such confidence in Bitcoin.

Basically, we don't need Satoshi but need community consensus if we want to change the bitcoin supply limit. But you're right, if this happens then people will no longer trust bitcoin because if they can change it once they can do it many times. So I think that even if it was proposed by Satoshi, not too many people would agree because it would reduce the credibility of bitcoin.

Personally, I would not support the idea of increasing the supply of bitcoin, the scarcity of bitcoin is the beauty that makes it completely different from the rest of the assets. If we break that, we are destroying bitcoin.

CODE200

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on January 19, 2024, 06:43:46 PM

All that statement does is proving that Dimon understands nothing about Bitcoin. Satoshi hasn't been active for over a decade, but even if he returned, he wouldn't be able to make any changes in Bitcoin, he could only propose them. In fact everyone can only propose changes, even Jamie Dimon can, but it's up to us users to decide whether we want them or not.

The problem with that proposition is that all the people that's worshipping Satoshi will just blindly allow and agree on the things that he's going to happen, there will be people that's going to ask questions that will challenge the propositions but his army of blind believers will defend him to the end. I don't think that he's ever going to do that though, it's more than a decade already and I don't think that he'll be able to remember all the stuff that he's done on that and he's going to need a lot of catching up to do with the updates on bitcoin and it would be counterintuitive for Satoshi to do that because he's the richest bitcoin hodler in history and adding an additional to the 21 million total supply is gong to be problematic for him, it's unlikely what Dimon says will be done by Satoshi, he's a greedy asshole that worships money and so that's what he thinks of Satoshi, he's an apathetic asshole that can never put his feet on other people's shoes, he will die as a money hungry asshole.

leonair

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

Quote from: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-says-satashi-may-erase-bitcoin-supply-limit-backs-tokenizing

Referring to the limited supply of Bitcoin, which is to mirror the properties of gold, Dimon said he doubted the finality of the 21 million Bitcoin supply maximum, saying: "I think there's a good chance, when we get to that 20 million bitcoins...Satashi [sic] is going to come on there, laugh hysterically, go quiet, and all Bitcoins [are] going to be erased. How the hell [do] you know it’s going to stop at 21?"

Bitcoin is fully decentralized and it is fundamentally created so that only 21 million Bitcoins will ever be created. I don't know if this is possible and on the other hand if the person or group named Sotoshi is still alive. And do they have the ability to edit Bitcoin since it is built to be decentralized. And all Bitcoin users know that the supply of Bitcoin is limited, so if the limit is increased, it is a big question whether people will have such confidence in Bitcoin.

Fundamentals Of

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One shouldn't anymore mind Jamie Dimon's ignorant suspicions and statements. He has already mentioned about this several times in national television. Such ignorant statements, but he doesn't seem to show interest about Bitcoin, so he can never understand the absurdity of his statements.

A lot of people have already corrected him, provided him explanations how it is impossible to happen, but since he doesn't mind about their answers, he continues saying false things about Bitcoin. So we should just ignore him. It's just unfortunate that he's actually globally influential in finance.

EarnOnVictor

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

I don't think Satoshi Nakamoto will make him/their self available about anything Bitcoin again, he/they have done what he/they needed to do, and nothing else should be expected of him/them again. If he/they had wanted to influence Bitcoin further, he/they would have done enough to the issues that caused the high fees, but since he/they have done his/their part and left the rest to everyone to decide, he/they would not do such a thing again.

However, nothing is impossible, but if he/they did that, that would be the beginning of the scalability of Bitcoin, once the core structure is altered, anything else could be altered. I believe Satoshi Nakamoto enforced the limit to help Bitcoin scarcity when the time comes which will still make it rice in price due to less supply. Though it is a huge issue for the coin itself, time will tell on this, but still, it has been done, I believe Satoshi Nakamoto will leave it be that way.

This kind of belief can only be spat out by critics and those who do not have an understanding of Bitcoin.

Richbased

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Quote from: Adbitco on January 19, 2024, 06:12:40 PM

Do you know that sometimes I do think about this as well, with the halving Bitcoin will be scarce in time to come and what is the essence of halving to remove some of the supply right?
Okay come to think of this, do you think if the halving continues we would have bitcoin for our 3 to 4 generation? So why halving meaning bitcoin is not singly operating as it was created as peer to peer nature so there's every possibility to be scarcity of bitcoin either the supply should be increased or halving should be extended to every 10 years or more to enable bitcoin Last for generations to come just as we are using cash currently and it has been in existence for centuries so why bitcoin can't be created as that.

You have some points here but I put it to you that Bitcoin becoming scarce will make it increase in it's value and the quest for people who wants to acquire it will increase as well as it takes an asset like Bitcoin to be scarce in other for the demand to be high and Bitcoin being a decentralized currency cannot be altered at this point that 19 millions of it has been mined already out of the 21 million so even if it's gonna be altered then it will be after the remaining 2 million has been mined then miners can reach an agreement to either continue it's mining or leave it at the projected 21 million by Satoshi Nakamoto.
Any attempt to maneuver the stipulated 21 million Bitcoin that ought to be mined will rather result to Bitcoin suffering some trust issues which may not really be a welcome idea for the sustainability of the digital asset.

ObscurePen

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Yes Bitcoins 21mil cap can be removed. In a hard fork, we would essentially have Bitcoin and another coin branch off. Bitcoin will continue with the 21 mil cap but the new coin will have a new cap or no cap. I am sure there must have been a fork in the past where this was done. One coin will continue being used while the other dies off.

It’s a good question to think about actually. What happens when the 21 mil cap is reached and miners get no more block reward. What will incentivise the miners to continue mining. Will transactions fees have to compensate for the loss of block reward? In that case wouldn’t tx fees be incredibly high? So where is the utility as a currency at that point? I don’t know the answers to these. They should be another thread all together to be honest.

SilverCryptoBullet

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Quote from: Xal0lex on January 19, 2024, 05:48:02 PM

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?

Satoshi Nakamoto can not and we can not.

JP Morgan CEO, Jamie must do his research and learn about basics. His statement like this means he did not do any research and did not find any basic about Bitcoin.

How is the 21 million bitcoin cap defined and enforced?

DanWalker

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Quote from: Churchillvv on January 19, 2024, 07:17:50 PM

I wouldn't say it's not possible, Yeah because before JP Morgan made such statement he must have done some research and found the possibility rate to be high, so he wouldn't just say things for saying sake.

But IMO, I don't believe it's gonna ever happen because of the trust it have already gain and investors believe that in less than no time BTC will be so scarce that the ones that has been held already will now become so expensive then their profits will be so guaranteed. So if this 21 million feature of bitcoin is lost the value will drop hence investors will loss interest gradually everything that has been working well will now be like every other Altcoins. Which is a major reason it won't be possible.

I think on the contrary, he just says what he thinks, he has never done any research on bitcoin. Because if he researched carefully, he would know that Satoshi is only the creator of bitcoin, not the person who will have full authority to change everything about bitcoin. Bitcoin is decentralized and controlled by the community, and if we want to change anything, we need consensus from everyone. To do that is extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Although bitcoin scarcity is not the only factor causing bitcoin prices to skyrocket, it is one of the important factors and everyone knows it. So I believe no one wants to change the bitcoin supply.

Topic: Can Satoshi Nakamoto remove the 21 million BTC limit? - page 3. (Read 725 times)