A btc derivatives market is not going to be the same. There is no QE/ZIRP to feed it.
Still, it opens the door for greed and massive imbalances.
Topic: Can wallstreet really get (invest) into bitcoin? (Read 2235 times)
A btc derivatives market is not going to be the same. There is no QE/ZIRP to feed it.
Still, it opens the door for greed and massive imbalances.
If BTC gives the banksters the same tools they have been operating with in the last decades to bring down our financial system, I will be very disappointed.
One of the great things of BTC for me always was/is - no BTC on credit (in organised, institutional form)!
For anybody who doesn't know, the tower of derivatives about to collapse down onto the world is many times higher then the entire world's total GDP...
One of the great things of BTC for me always was/is - no BTC on credit (in organised, institutional form)!
For anybody who doesn't know, the tower of derivatives about to collapse down onto the world is many times higher then the entire world's total GDP...
A btc derivatives market is not going to be the same. There is no QE/ZIRP to feed it.
If BTC gives the banksters the same tools they have been operating with in the last decades to bring down our financial system, I will be very disappointed.
One of the great things of BTC for me always was/is - no BTC on credit (in organised, institutional form)!
For anybody who doesn't know, the tower of derivatives about to collapse down onto the world is many times higher then the entire world's total GDP...
One of the great things of BTC for me always was/is - no BTC on credit (in organised, institutional form)!
For anybody who doesn't know, the tower of derivatives about to collapse down onto the world is many times higher then the entire world's total GDP...
Wall Street is for profit and would love to get into BTC, as soon as they start to realize its huge potential (which hasn't happened yet, mostly just misinformation and fearmongering). The question is - will the politicians allow it? I don't know.
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Wall Street is in the beginning stages of finding its potential.
Politicians are beginning to take sides. Texas Representative running a primary soon. Wants to introduce a bill. LONG way out. But a start.
No derivatives? LOL! Trust me, if this becomes mainstream, they will find a way to create them.
Derivatives is coming. It is necessary. It is good. Here is why:
Someone asks to buy a lamborghini, and ask for a price in bitcoin. Danger! It can crash right after the sale. You want USD10000 for it. That is 100BTC at the current exhange rate. So you turn to the options market. There is for sale an option to sell 100 BTC for 100000 within a month. Price is 2BTC. You turn back to the customer and say 102BTC is the price. If that is OK, you buy the option first, then do the paperwork for the car. You receive the BTC. Then you sell the BTC and then the option. If the price went down in the mean time, the option should cover the loss.
Note: The crash was about BTC. Not the car.
If a robust options market existed, I would consider being on the other side of the option trade, being a bull. If it plays out as I expect, the 2 BTC would be free money.
That's the first thing I think we'll see should the legalities ever get worked out, an options market. Someone will figure out they can make money running an exchange and will set one up. Legally it will difficult. But I think it will it will benefit everyone. And again, make it more and more mainstream.
Wall Street is for profit and would love to get into BTC, as soon as they start to realize its huge potential (which hasn't happened yet, mostly just misinformation and fearmongering). The question is - will the politicians allow it? I don't know.
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Wall Street is in the beginning stages of finding its potential.
Politicians are beginning to take sides. Texas Representative running a primary soon. Wants to introduce a bill. LONG way out. But a start.
No derivatives? LOL! Trust me, if this becomes mainstream, they will find a way to create them.
Derivatives is coming. It is necessary. It is good. Here is why:
Someone asks to buy a lamborghini, and ask for a price in bitcoin. Danger! It can crash right after the sale. You want USD10000 for it. That is 100BTC at the current exhange rate. So you turn to the options market. There is for sale an option to sell 100 BTC for 100000 within a month. Price is 2BTC. You turn back to the customer and say 102BTC is the price. If that is OK, you buy the option first, then do the paperwork for the car. You receive the BTC. Then you sell the BTC and then the option. If the price went down in the mean time, the option should cover the loss.
Note: The crash was about BTC. Not the car.
If a robust options market existed, I would consider being on the other side of the option trade, being a bull. If it plays out as I expect, the 2 BTC would be free money.
Derivatives are a big reason of what brought us into the current mess. Also, it's so tempting to use them for manipulation...
BTC will be more stable once the price rises. A small exchange risk is always there, just when I buy something with my euros that's sold in dollars.
Yes, they can be used as insurance but also to take hughe risks.
Wall Street is for profit and would love to get into BTC, as soon as they start to realize its huge potential (which hasn't happened yet, mostly just misinformation and fearmongering). The question is - will the politicians allow it? I don't know.
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Wall Street is in the beginning stages of finding its potential.
Politicians are beginning to take sides. Texas Representative running a primary soon. Wants to introduce a bill. LONG way out. But a start.
No derivatives? LOL! Trust me, if this becomes mainstream, they will find a way to create them.
Derivatives is coming. It is necessary. It is good. Here is why:
Someone asks to buy a lamborghini, and ask for a price in bitcoin. Danger! It can crash right after the sale. You want USD10000 for it. That is 100BTC at the current exhange rate. So you turn to the options market. There is for sale an option to sell 100 BTC for 100000 within a month. Price is 2BTC. You turn back to the customer and say 102BTC is the price. If that is OK, you buy the option first, then do the paperwork for the car. You receive the BTC. Then you sell the BTC and then the option. If the price went down in the mean time, the option should cover the loss.
Note: The crash was about BTC. Not the car.
If a robust options market existed, I would consider being on the other side of the option trade, being a bull. If it plays out as I expect, the 2 BTC would be free money.
Derivatives are a big reason of what brought us into the current mess. Also, it's so tempting to use them for manipulation...
BTC will be more stable once the price rises. A small exchange risk is always there, just when I buy something with my euros that's sold in dollars.
Wall Street is for profit and would love to get into BTC, as soon as they start to realize its huge potential (which hasn't happened yet, mostly just misinformation and fearmongering). The question is - will the politicians allow it? I don't know.
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
No derivatives? LOL! Trust me, if this becomes mainstream, they will find a way to create them.
Yeah, I was shooting on that one too quickly... I'm just investigating this topic by having started another thread about it...
Wall Street is for profit and would love to get into BTC, as soon as they start to realize its huge potential (which hasn't happened yet, mostly just misinformation and fearmongering). The question is - will the politicians allow it? I don't know.
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Wall Street is in the beginning stages of finding its potential.
Politicians are beginning to take sides. Texas Representative running a primary soon. Wants to introduce a bill. LONG way out. But a start.
No derivatives? LOL! Trust me, if this becomes mainstream, they will find a way to create them.
Derivatives is coming. It is necessary. It is good. Here is why:
Someone asks to buy a lamborghini, and ask for a price in bitcoin. Danger! It can crash right after the sale. You want USD10000 for it. That is 100BTC at the current exhange rate. So you turn to the options market. There is for sale an option to sell 100 BTC for 100000 within a month. Price is 2BTC. You turn back to the customer and say 102BTC is the price. If that is OK, you buy the option first, then do the paperwork for the car. You receive the BTC. Then you sell the BTC and then the option. If the price went down in the mean time, the option should cover the loss.
Note: The crash was about BTC. Not the car.
If a robust options market existed, I would consider being on the other side of the option trade, being a bull. If it plays out as I expect, the 2 BTC would be free money.
Wall Street is for profit and would love to get into BTC, as soon as they start to realize its huge potential (which hasn't happened yet, mostly just misinformation and fearmongering). The question is - will the politicians allow it? I don't know.
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivates are possible with BTC...
Wall Street is in the beginning stages of finding its potential.
Politicians are beginning to take sides. Texas Representative running a primary soon. Wants to introduce a bill. LONG way out. But a start.
No derivatives? LOL! Trust me, if this becomes mainstream, they will find a way to create them.
I personally see bitcoin as an investment and not a currency.
I don't think bitcoin has the reliability to be a currency.
I personally think altcoins that has major modification will fill in as currency while bitcoin will continue to be an investment.
I really don't know which altcoin will end up fulfilling that role, but I'm on the Quark coin boat. A lot of people might have different views and even think Quark is a scam, but Quark to me right now seem like the most promising one that can eventually be stable enough to be used as a currency.
I urge people to do more research and find the one that you think will be able to become a currency and not just follow blindly.
This is just my personal opinion.
I don't think bitcoin has the reliability to be a currency.
I personally think altcoins that has major modification will fill in as currency while bitcoin will continue to be an investment.
I really don't know which altcoin will end up fulfilling that role, but I'm on the Quark coin boat. A lot of people might have different views and even think Quark is a scam, but Quark to me right now seem like the most promising one that can eventually be stable enough to be used as a currency.
I urge people to do more research and find the one that you think will be able to become a currency and not just follow blindly.
This is just my personal opinion.
Well you contradict yourself... thats a problem... if you really dont belive in BTC as a currency, than you really cant belive in BTC as an investment (at least not in the long run), because the price of BTC is mainly driven by the future expectations of it being used as a currency, other then that its really useless, even stupid gold has more use than BTC. When BTC is a not a currency and people would realize it, the price would fell a lot i belive.
GreenWins post makes a lot of sense, no contradiction there. BTC used only as a store of value is absolutely possible, in the long run. Doesn't mean it has to go kaputt.
Wall Street is for profit and would love to get into BTC, as soon as they start to realize its huge potential (which hasn't happened yet, mostly just misinformation and fearmongering). The question is - will the politicians allow it? I don't know.
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivatives are possible with BTC...
Btw, when Wall Street gets into BTC (if ever), THAT'S when you will see the real bubble...
Luckily, no bullshit derivatives are possible with BTC...
Bitcoin is only for hobbyist sheep like ourselves.
After 10kUSD/BTC, it is for wall street. Here is the commercial:
Normal people should only invest in bitcoin through ETF's. It is volatile you know. Danger, danger. Look we do this all day you know. We are professionals. Trust us. And we take only 50% of the appreciation. If it it depreciates, we will forgo the fees. You can only win.
After 10kUSD/BTC, it is for wall street. Here is the commercial:
Normal people should only invest in bitcoin through ETF's. It is volatile you know. Danger, danger. Look we do this all day you know. We are professionals. Trust us. And we take only 50% of the appreciation. If it it depreciates, we will forgo the fees. You can only win.
Is this a "real" commercial from a website promoting a particular product or service?
Quote
Why would Wall Street wait until $10k? I am almost positive certain hedge funds are already involved.
That was not sarcasm. Because they are slow, always follow the stream.
Bitcoin is only for hobbyist sheep like ourselves.
After 10kUSD/BTC, it is for wall street. Here is the commercial:
Normal people should only invest in bitcoin through ETF's. It is volatile you know. Danger, danger. Look we do this all day you know. We are professionals. Trust us. And we take only 50% of the appreciation. If it it depreciates, we will forgo the fees. You can only win.
After 10kUSD/BTC, it is for wall street. Here is the commercial:
Normal people should only invest in bitcoin through ETF's. It is volatile you know. Danger, danger. Look we do this all day you know. We are professionals. Trust us. And we take only 50% of the appreciation. If it it depreciates, we will forgo the fees. You can only win.
Is this a "real" commercial from a website promoting a particular product or service?
Why would Wall Street wait until $10k? I am almost positive certain hedge funds are already involved.
a better question is can wallstreet survive bitcoin / DAC's?
imho, wall street and friends, not in their current form,
because we now have a decentralized clearing house
imho, wall street and friends, not in their current form,
because we now have a decentralized clearing house
People have been organizing to take down Wall Street since the 1840's.
You can't kill an idea.
you can with a better idea...
eg, cassette tapes or vhs, long gone, thermodynamically more efficient always wins out, memetic competition.
(that's thermomemetica for you)
and when I say wall st, I don't mean just was street I mean that whole trading system.
I am *not* saying they wont survive, but if they do, it won't be in their current form
I hope you're right.
Actually that's my point of fixation with bitcoin. How it integrates into a disintegrating system. Most see the current structure as an omnipotent force, I see it as precariously perched on a cliff, an edifice created by those long gone now, inherited by those who don't fully even understand the machine they now control.
It's scary business to me, I hope tech saves us, because if it fails, ain't nothin else going to save us.
That said I've watched wall street transform into a tech hub already in my young-ish career. I went to Chicago to be a floor trader ten years ago, right about the time the floor died.
Point being it is human nature for the financially powerful to organize themselves in a certain way, we shorthand it as wall street, if bitcoin flies the elements will move to bitcoin and do what we do.
Bitcoin is only for hobbyist sheep like ourselves.
After 10kUSD/BTC, it is for wall street. Here is the commercial:
Normal people should only invest in bitcoin through ETF's. It is volatile you know. Danger, danger. Look we do this all day you know. We are professionals. Trust us. And we take only 50% of the appreciation. If it it depreciates, we will forgo the fees. You can only win.
After 10kUSD/BTC, it is for wall street. Here is the commercial:
Normal people should only invest in bitcoin through ETF's. It is volatile you know. Danger, danger. Look we do this all day you know. We are professionals. Trust us. And we take only 50% of the appreciation. If it it depreciates, we will forgo the fees. You can only win.
a better question is can wallstreet survive bitcoin / DAC's?
imho, wall street and friends, not in their current form,
because we now have a decentralized clearing house
imho, wall street and friends, not in their current form,
because we now have a decentralized clearing house
People have been organizing to take down Wall Street since the 1840's.
You can't kill an idea.
you can with a better idea...
eg, cassette tapes or vhs, long gone, thermodynamically more efficient always wins out, memetic competition.
(that's thermomemetica for you)
and when I say wall st, I don't mean just was street I mean that whole trading system.
I am *not* saying they wont survive, but if they do, it won't be in their current form
a better question is can wallstreet survive bitcoin / DAC's?
imho, wall street and friends, not in their current form,
because we now have a decentralized clearing house
imho, wall street and friends, not in their current form,
because we now have a decentralized clearing house
People have been organizing to take down Wall Street since the 1840's.
You can't kill an idea.
Wall Street already IS in Bitcoin.
http://www.bitcointrust.co/
http://www.businessinsider.com/fortress-launches-bitcoin-fund-2013-12
These are accredited investors, net worth $1MM+ and/or AGI of $300k/year. While many of these people are individual investors who are rich, word is some hedge funds are are ready very actively in Bitcoins.
http://www.bitcointrust.co/
http://www.businessinsider.com/fortress-launches-bitcoin-fund-2013-12
These are accredited investors, net worth $1MM+ and/or AGI of $300k/year. While many of these people are individual investors who are rich, word is some hedge funds are are ready very actively in Bitcoins.
a better question is can wallstreet survive bitcoin / DAC's?
imho, wall street and friends, not in their current form,
because we now have a decentralized clearing house
imho, wall street and friends, not in their current form,
because we now have a decentralized clearing house
It's Wall Streets whole ethos to make money and bitcoin could potentially be worth A LOT more money than it is already. THere is that job advert that has been posted around for bitcoin traders so it looks pretty certain going off that. Also, with these massive industrial size mining complexs opening like the one in Sweden (i think), there are people now with vast amounts of fiat money invested in bitcoins' increasing value and future.
Yes if there is money to be made and they can do it without disrupting the market too much, they will be there. Right now though the bitcoin market isn't big enough to get in and out easily enough. You see that even a $1 million trade on Mt Gox moves the price quite a bit.
Once the big players get into it there will be erratic price adjustments to reflect the larger trades but it'll be in an upwards trend. A single bitcoin can be divided by 8 decimal places so i'd say there is plenty of scope to accommodate a rising value without people being priced out. Bitcoin is unlike anything before it so its hard to say what will really happen if everyone gets involved, but to me the logical outcome is a huge price rise, but that's just my opinion.
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