Topic: Can we avoid crypto taxes with other users assistance? - page 2. (Read 381 times)

What do you mean by "collaboration with other individuals"? Do you want to send your crypto to somebody, who lives in a "tax heaven" country with the promise that he will return you the crypto when you need it? Yeah, I can't see what could go wrong here. There's zero chance for you getting scammed. If you really want to get involved into tax evasion schemes, I suggest you to never trust anyone and to do you own research. If you are too afraid about paying capitals gains tax just don't sell big amounts of crypto. Just HODL until the next bull run.

What I can see in the worries of higher crypto taxes is that there's going to be more people that's going to not give the government what they want and crypto can be used as it is, a p2p electronic cash so it's not really that difficult for crypto users to use that as a means of payment although it's a matter of how many people there are in an area that uses cryptocurrency for their transactions. There's also the loophole of P2P trade, you sell your crypto in person and that person that will buy your crypto with their fiat, that way, there's no transaction that can trace you that you did receive some payment, it will look like you gave someone a gift and I think that it's legal so there's no way that you're going to be prosecuted by it, I'm not a lawyer but this is what I do and so far, there's nothing that has happened to me, legally speaking.

The only downside to this is you're going to show your face or something like that, doing P2P trade online is going to be a problem since there's a receipt that you did receive money in that crypto transactions.

I know a lot of rich people who go through different hoops just to pay a little less tax than they normally would. It makes me think why not just pay it? If you’re so rich, just pay it like any other citizen in the country. Well anyway I am sure those people have groups of experts such as lawyers and financial advisors.

I think depending on your country, the taxes with relation to cryptocurrency can be vague. In my country, there is really no definitive law that specifies anything about crypto and taxes for that matter.

So, I think you need to check your country’s laws about taxes and surely you’ll find a loophole in there.

Definitely, I think people should know crypto activities that are taxable and the ones that aren't taxable and from there they can choose means to avoid taxes and still achieve the same results.

I believe tasks are applied to your profits from any transaction and the percentage might differ from country to country. The profits that are taxable might include:

• Selling digital assets for fiat
• funds  generated as payment for  gods and services rendered
• money generated from selling your coins
  
• Gains Accumulated from trading

You may be informed that your capital isn't taxable, you're tasked on your gains from the time of purchase. Also if you receive  funds for your company services, you should write it down as income so that it can be taxed accurately

Well there are other ways to avoid tax

• purchasing crypto with fiat
• transferring funds between wallets
• donating crypto to charity organizations
  
  

Its up to you yo know which patterns you feel like applying to avoid taxes on the digital assets that you own.

https://www.investopedia.com/tech/taxes-and-crypto/

Exactly, for my country, we don't pay taxes or file an income tax return as long as our income don't go higher than or triple if not quadruple the minimum wage which is pretty low but if you're not going to have that problem with your salary, taxation is pretty lax in the country, I have a friend that doesn't pay the taxes but he's got the money to be able to buy a house and some luxury car but there's no taxes that he's talked about. I think that the moment that your bank account is seeing a lot of activities that involves large amounts of money, that's probably the time that the BIR (IRS of my country) will do some probing but so far, it's going smoothly for everyone of us.

To OP, I'm saying this with objective purpose of answering you, no other reason. Yes you can have an assistance but the caveat here is you're going to need a friend that you can really trust through thick and thin because when you do this, you're going to relinquish control of your money at some point in the process and if that friend isn't trustworthy, you're going to get scammed or duped by that friend, always remember that money can make someone do unthinkable things and break friendships, it's just a matter of amount that they're going to betray you.

I can understand a lot of crypto users are avoiding the taxes by all means. Because it is crypto, and we don't want the government to meddle our crypto dealings. But as the government is getting acquainted with crypto market, and so their taxation protocols or regulations, thus, they are slowly implementing how taxation works on this market.

I think we can't totally avoid this from happening. Time is coming for this taxation protocols as they are clearing out what the market is.

you think billgates, zuckerburg, clintons, trump pay 30% instead of 40%
no, they learn* tax law and pay under 5% (use accountants to file their self assessments instead of physically self assessing themselves)
and they pay this lower 5% just as a gratuity to say they pay something. but they could get that number to 0%

its not a fact that there is a progressive tax.. it is however a fact that there is a progressive tax for those that dont even try to learn their tax adjustable's, tax exemptions and tax avoidance's.. so its the average joe that gets affected by just paying the rate they get told rather then work out the most efficient economics of their value to pay the minimums

When you make such comparisons, there is often a misunderstanding. These are not just taxes, but in many countries also include insurance for pensions, health and long-term care insurance, which guarantee a certain level of protection.

For example. In Germany, crypto profits are completely tax-free for a holding period of 1+ year (as far as I know, there is no other country where this is the case). If you sell them within the one year, then the personal tax rate on the profits applies, and this can be between 0% and 45%, with only around 22% of the 45% being pure income tax. The remaining 23% are various obligatory insurances as mentioned above.

It’s possible but then you’d have to take your money out in bits, not necessarily small bits but a decent amount you don’t have to prove you own. And one can use this money for payment that’s needed in fiat. While using the other cryptocurrency on platforms that accept it as a form of payment. And I don’t think it is illegal or is it? Or what if you have someone outside who send the money as fiat often? Could be family who’s giving you money.

That tax percentage is unjust, even if its annual or even if it's quarterly, how much more if its per transaction of what. Although its unlawful for tax evasion, i guess it's more reasonable if its the case. Crypto is just any money, tax someone if someone bought goods and service with it.
But if authorities are that greedy, expect their people will avoid those tax. Lol.

Seeking for means to invade tax is not appropriate because it is a crime to invade tax. However, tax avoidance is an ideal means it bypassing tax legitimately.  In my country using P2P for Bitcoin transactions is an appropriate means of avoiding tax because our country's laws on cryptocurrency have not covered such kind of tax. You would be taxed when you use centralized platforms for crypto transactions. I also know that super-rich people avoid taxes by registering companies in tax havens which they can use for tax avoidance. It is not a bad idea to collaborate to avoid taxes but how can we locate trustworthy people? People might use this chance to scam people.  

It seems they almost charge 50% tax on crypto earnings, which is pretty high. That's the reason why most citizens are discouraged from paying taxes legally. However, if you reside there, there is no way to avoid crypto tax if you have been using a centralised platform. They have to submit a tax report if authorities ask them to. So it's better to comply with the rules where you are living right now. If you want to skip or avoid tax, then you have to use a decentralised platform to handle your assets and deal p2p when you want to cash out. But it's always better to get advice from a tax lawyer. They could advise you on a on a better way to solve the tax issues. 

Seeing this, I felt a little relieved, because the TX here is not that big. Really, I think, that's a very high amount, isn't it? However, we still don't really understand how tax is determined and calculated in each country.

Because indeed, the more the government looks at Bitcoin and crypto as a whole, the more eager they are to make various regulations. the end of which, again, is taxes. For this reason, it cannot be denied that there are many parties who hide or manipulate their assets as much as possible in order to avoid taxes. And is this possible?

Sometimes it's easier to move to another country than fight and use loopholes to get 10% reduction on your 40% tax. When all dust settles you'll still have to pay 30% or 20% which is a lot if you have a few million in profit.
I've been avoiding taxes all my life because I believe that progressive tax is unjust and it's a remnant of communism and socialism that we used to criticize so much. For those who don't know what progressive taxation is, you have to pay higher tax if you make what the government considers too much. This means that you have to be average, or you'll get punished for being too good at what you're doing. If you make $100k a year, or more you won't have to pay the rate everybody else pay, but double that, so the government will often steal more than half of your profit just because it can.
Bottom line, if you live in a country where there's tax higher than 20% regardless of how much you're making, leave and go somewhere else. They can't stop you. It's either this or enjoy being treated like a slave.

 

Maybe he wants to do illegal activities or criminal activities that's why he doesn't want to pay taxes. Taxes helps government build something like new building for school, fixing road and many more. I think I'll wait for a little bit for OP to clarify his intention of not wanting to pay taxes. I can't imagine what will happen to a country where the citizens doesn't pay taxes. I am sure there are people who will do bad things.

If you don’t want to pay taxes, move to one of those tax-free countries you mentioned. But then you will quickly find out that these tax-free countries aren’t as good as the high tax countries. If you try to cheat the IRS or whatever tax agency in your country, they will throw you in a jail cell if you get caught.

You want to enjoy the benefits of a developed country which are low crime rate, good healthcare, public schools etc but you don’t want to pay for it. That’s just another form of stealing imo.

there are many things to look into
such as trusts and foundations (look at how the clintons/gates do things)
things like "personal loans" from your business/trust, to your personal human self
(how politicians get paid from their sidegig businesses they own, out side of the political earnings)
(loans are non taxible. and if you are as a business/trustee the loan provider.. and you are as a person the recipient.. whos gonna complain about the relaxed terms you set for yourself(you wont take yourself to court for non payment))

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those small tax % we in the UK call things like 'stamp duty' which is imposed on the portfolio manager/exchange service to charge per trade.. not much can be done on that.. plus those amounts are small so you just wait for markets to move by 0.22%(in your case) higher than the sell off price you want, to ensure you get after these small charges, the amount you want.

but on capital gains and income tax of the whole sell of assets. there are some tax efficient avenues to consider

Because in our place Bitcoin and Crypto are not legal tender but the assets of the commodity that are allowed to be traded, tax cuts are directly imposed when on the exchange.

The two crypto taxes imposed are Value Added Tax (PPN) and Income Tax (PPH) with a magnitude of 0.11% for Value Added Tax (PPN) and 0.1% for Income Tax (PPH) of each transaction.
I do not want to avoid every tax holes because of the tax from the people for the people.

exactly.

In the US:

- long term 0% capital gains bracket goes up to the $40,000s, so if you make less then whatever that exact number is in a year in total (including every dollar you've made from wages, trading, selling, whatever), and if you sold some bitcoin in profit that you've been holding for more than a year as part of that, then you are still in the 0% tax bracket for long term capital gains and so you don't pay taxes on that profit

- If you have bought low and high, and the price is in between when you sell some bitcoin, you can sell some of the lower bitcoin in profit, and some of the higher bitcoin for a loss, and if the average profit of all of those sales is less than $0 you don't pay any taxes.

- If you have a Roth IRA or Roth 401k that you contribute to and you buy the BTC ETFs with those, those are tax-advantage accounts so you won't owe any taxes on those when you pass the withdrawal age later in life


Those are the only ones I know of.


As an example of not paying taxes, I sold all the shit altcoins I bought in 2021 for huge losses in 2022 on the crash cuz I was like why did I even buy this crap haha. So now I've got tons of tax losses to use to offset my taxes that I owe each year, until these tax losses from 2022 run out. So in 2022 that cancelled out most of my taxes (I paid $353 in taxes that year), its cancelling out all my taxes in 2023 so I owe nothing. And unless Bitcoin is already peaking by end of this year (in which case I'll be selling some bitcoin) I'll again pay no taxes this year. But of course this is all only because I stupidly thought in 2021 altcoins were gonna start gaining traction long term and I ended up taking a 6 figure loss on that assumption just to get out of that crap. But that mistake allows me to not pay taxes for a few years until I've made back in profit all that I lost.

If the amount levied on tax payment is affordable to the people, i don't think they will like to make moves in finding an alternative to wave away the incident of paying for task, the same issues we had when the fiat transaction cost is unbearable that led to the development of a new and alternative means of making payment with bitcoin, so i don't see it a bad idea if we have a means to avoid such but legitimately.