Can we Manipulate Bitcoin price? - page 26.

naidray

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Quote from: BitcoinPC on March 22, 2017, 09:52:14 AM

Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

Exactly, big whales does and capable to make the price move like if they sale they hold coins for sure the value will gonna crashed down and so if they purchased and buy coins the value will rises again. We hope big whales continue to hold theirs and buy more.

As you probably heard this before but the bitcoin supply is limited to 21 million bitcoin and this supply was expected to last us for 100 years, right now there is 13 million bitcoin circulating around the internet which leaves us with only 8 million bitcoin to mine for the next 92 years.

You are probably asking yourself what this guy is talking about and what does that have to do with controlling bitcoin, well with the increasing number of people and adoption of bitcoin this leaves the hand of the price of the bitcoin to the ones who are supplying us with the bitcoin which are the miners, so if miners want to hold to make the price go up then they will if they don’t they don’t, and they are the ones who are controlling the flow of transaction and their fees, which makes us just a mere consumers nothing more, so don’t think you are big deal just because you own bitcoin, learn how to generate bitcoin and then you are a big deal.

Adelajda

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Quote from: BitcoinPC on March 22, 2017, 09:52:14 AM

Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

Exactly, big whales does and capable to make the price move like if they sale they hold coins for sure the value will gonna crashed down and so if they purchased and buy coins the value will rises again. We hope big whales continue to hold theirs and buy more.

Big whales does that to every speculative market,not only in bitcoin or alt coin trading but even i stock trading. If you look at the history charts of bitcoin all the price drop and gain are simply because of manipulation and rumors play a big role in this market.

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Quote from: Fatanut on March 22, 2017, 06:26:18 AM

Quote from: hawkins on March 21, 2017, 02:55:29 PM

Well, have a lot of people who manipulate bitcoin, but honestly, it provides many advantages in retaining bitcoin. Well, they can manipulate the bitcoin only those who have a lot of bitcoin, and most likely it can only be done by the exchanger.

It will be a lot wiser if the exchanger just stay away from price manipulation. After all, they are already earning more than enough money from all the transactions that's happening on their website. If they join the manipulation, they can just lose money. Why risk if you already have a goose hatching golden eggs, right?

If they lose money from doing a gamble in the manipulation (pump and dump), then it will require time for them to get back that amount of money from the exchanger site which is kind of a hassle imo because they could've earned much more instead

You seem to be confusing exchanges with exchangers

These are two different notions which refer to different services. In respect to exchanges as such and manipulation they can perform, if done right. it is 100% sure and easy money for them. They cannot possibly lose anything (unless they do something really stupid, of course) simply because they control both sides of the trade. Given that, they can easily earn money by front running the orders of their clients. For example, if they see two big orders (one Sell and one Buy order) coming in at more or less the same time which are basically offsetting each other, the possible negative spread between these orders will be the exchange's pure profit. Exchanges may not place orders immediately but allow some small and almost unnoticeable lapse while waiting in ambush for such orders. They will just place their own orders at a little below and a little above other traders' Sell and Buy orders, respectively. If they weren't front-running orders, they could only earn on the commissions, but with this technique in place they earn on both the commissions and the spread

BitcoinPC

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Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

Exactly, big whales does and capable to make the price move like if they sale they hold coins for sure the value will gonna crashed down and so if they purchased and buy coins the value will rises again. We hope big whales continue to hold theirs and buy more.

NEWGOODOUBLE

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Quote from: szpalata on March 20, 2017, 05:53:47 PM

Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

True, it's a matter of pump and dump that controls the prices and so someone or a group of people who have quite a lot of Bitcoin can manipulate by pumping and dumping.

I think it's about supply and demand but although they have a very large capital though if marketcap in bitcoin market already covers the whole world. This will remain a difficult to manipulate bitcoin price

Fatanut

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Quote from: hawkins on March 21, 2017, 02:55:29 PM

Well, have a lot of people who manipulate bitcoin, but honestly, it provides many advantages in retaining bitcoin. Well, they can manipulate the bitcoin only those who have a lot of bitcoin, and most likely it can only be done by the exchanger.

It will be a lot wiser if the exchanger just stay away from price manipulation. After all, they are already earning more than enough money from all the transactions that's happening on their website. If they join the manipulation, they can just lose money. Why risk if you already have a goose hatching golden eggs, right?

If they lose money from doing a gamble in the manipulation (pump and dump), then it will require time for them to get back that amount of money from the exchanger site which is kind of a hassle imo because they could've earned much more instead.

lionheart78

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Quote from: Xester on March 20, 2017, 04:30:33 AM

Quote from: batang_bitcoin on March 20, 2017, 04:19:53 AM

Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

Yes those big people or should I say people that has big amount of bitcoins are the ones that are capable of manipulating the bitcoins price. And right now, we are seeing on how they are manipulating the price of bitcoin and too bad for us who are just small holders we are just going along with the flow of these whales.

Not only big whales or miners could manipulate the price of bitcoin but also the power of the masses. If a big number of bitcoin holders started to panic and dumped their bitcoins the price will suddenly dropped but if they were convinced that bitcoin is good to go the price will inflate no matter what. At this point of time the power of the masses in the bitcoin community is much stronger than the whales. The whales have dumped bitcoin man times but the large number of bitcoin supporters saw this as an opportunity to get hold of bitcoins and thus the price deflation has turn into price increase.

Masses cannot manipulate the price, the dump is just the reaction of weak hand people who were moved by the FUD this manipulators created. Though I think with the influence of media plus the combined effort of exchanges, just like what happen recently, can manipulate price of BTC to either drop it or increase it. Masses only follow and react.

Dimelord

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Quote from: Wapinter on April 24, 2016, 04:40:31 PM

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

Manipulation can be easily done in altcoins and not in bitcoins.Once, chinese exchanges did that by showing increased trade volume and chinese holders used to create fake buy orders as there was no fees.But now, fees has been implied and PBOC wants each bitcoin holders to give all of their details.So,it would not be easy to manipulate bitcoin price as before.But some big whales sell their huge btc holdings at same time to create a little fall in price and create panic among newbies,thereby making them to sell their bitcoins and make the price drop to buy bitcoins at cheaper rate.

President79

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Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

I think there is not a thing that can change when the transfer transaction fees because of the bitcoin is not significant. If anyone asked if it could be manipulated, of course the answer is can, depending on demand and supply.

hawkins

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Well, have a lot of people who manipulate bitcoin, but honestly, it provides many advantages in retaining bitcoin. Well, they can manipulate the bitcoin only those who have a lot of bitcoin, and most likely it can only be done by the exchanger.

Alesis

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Quote from: stadus on March 20, 2017, 02:37:52 AM

Quote from: wxa7115 on March 20, 2017, 01:18:14 AM

Quote from: megynacuna on March 19, 2017, 04:14:58 PM

Quote from: BlokF4No27 on March 15, 2017, 03:43:02 AM

Of course we can, no secret again if china is the largest owner of the bitcoin, many forums which states they unite for get the benefit of the price of the bitcoin.

Well it's worrying but it's possible China can manipulate the prices single handed due to their stake in the Bitcoin mining network and the amount of Bitcoin owners and bitcoins in their possession. The prices are generally regulated by demand and supply and since they have more in their possession they can either creat a demand (by refusing to sell) or create an abundance of supply.

But that will require the collaboration and coordination of thousands of individuals and organization, I think it it is way more likely that just a few big whales are the ones trying to manipulate the price of bitcoin since that is way easier to coordinate than many individuals.

It's either a small group of whales are manipulating the price because it's hard to make a bigger group that would cooperate in manipulating the price.
Although I don't know who really are manipulating the price but I believe it's happening because the price movement is not normal anymore, one time it will pump and the next thing will happen is dump.

The manipulation of Bitcoin price isn't as extreme now as it has been before though. Bitcoin's market cap being over $20 billion, most of the people with that much money aren't willing to take the risk putting so much money into something as risky as Bitcoin, even in small groups.

yrreg ger

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Quote from: Wapinter on April 24, 2016, 04:40:31 PM

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

Every time many bitcoin user always check the price between exchanges of dollars and btc. But we can't manipulate when it will decrease or increase. Many said that when there's a changes to increases the chances of trading will up. Then others save his btc because the exchanges decreases. In this matter no one will predict or manipulate when did it increase. However it will changes until we think that the price is better to trade to dollar.

kidsuzudn

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you're wrong bro, i don't think the most players hold bitcoin stay in this forum, most of the players who hold the most bitcoin are in China, they can control the price of bitcoin very easily by selling or buying bitcoin. But i think in the future, when the bitcoin more popular so China will lose that power. Cause they make the market so confused .

wxa7115

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Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

Exchanging your bitcoin for any other crypto or fiat changes the price of those two assets but doing a transaction, buying something with bitcoin for a product or service does not change the price of bitcoin at all and helps the bitcoin economy to become self sustaining.

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Quote from: szpalata on March 20, 2017, 05:53:47 PM

Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

True, it's a matter of pump and dump that controls the prices and so someone or a group of people who have quite a lot of Bitcoin can manipulate by pumping and dumping.

that's not enough unless more than 50% do that pumping and dumping ,
it is not that easy to manipulate the market ,
you have to be in the right position otherwise you will just suffering lost ,
so it could be manipulated but really hard to make it happen.

szpalata

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Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

True, it's a matter of pump and dump that controls the prices and so someone or a group of people who have quite a lot of Bitcoin can manipulate by pumping and dumping.

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: Xester on March 20, 2017, 04:30:33 AM

Quote from: batang_bitcoin on March 20, 2017, 04:19:53 AM

Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

Yes those big people or should I say people that has big amount of bitcoins are the ones that are capable of manipulating the bitcoins price. And right now, we are seeing on how they are manipulating the price of bitcoin and too bad for us who are just small holders we are just going along with the flow of these whales.

Not only big whales or miners could manipulate the price of bitcoin but also the power of the masses. If a big number of bitcoin holders started to panic and dumped their bitcoins the price will suddenly dropped but if they were convinced that bitcoin is good to go the price will inflate no matter what. At this point of time the power of the masses in the bitcoin community is much stronger than the whales. The whales have dumped bitcoin man times but the large number of bitcoin supporters saw this as an opportunity to get hold of bitcoins and thus the price deflation has turn into price increase.

Oh yes, the miners too and that's what I'm talking about the power of the masses that you are talking, the whales. Those pump and dump groups are also responsible for helping and contributing for the manipulation of price. Also those whales are using their followers for making a big signal for the price manipulation of the market.

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Quote from: Xester on March 20, 2017, 04:30:33 AM

Quote from: batang_bitcoin on March 20, 2017, 04:19:53 AM

Quote from: tooley on March 20, 2017, 03:38:40 AM

Every transaction moves the price but only the heavy hitters move it to any noticeable amount.

Yes those big people or should I say people that has big amount of bitcoins are the ones that are capable of manipulating the bitcoins price. And right now, we are seeing on how they are manipulating the price of bitcoin and too bad for us who are just small holders we are just going along with the flow of these whales.

Not only big whales or miners could manipulate the price of bitcoin but also the power of the masses. If a big number of bitcoin holders started to panic and dumped their bitcoins the price will suddenly dropped but if they were convinced that bitcoin is good to go the price will inflate no matter what. At this point of time the power of the masses in the bitcoin community is much stronger than the whales. The whales have dumped bitcoin man times but the large number of bitcoin supporters saw this as an opportunity to get hold of bitcoins and thus the price deflation has turn into price increase

Why could we ever call that manipulation?

I strongly suspect that when wide masses of traders move the price, it is the direct opposite of manipulation. This is how free market should move, i.e. this is what makes a market free in the first place and free from manipulation in the second. Manipulation basically means when an individual or a small group of individuals either deceives the majority of trading folk into doing something which brings them profits or just operates directly to move the price in the direction they want and then again deceives the majority

ilovefeetsmell

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Quote from: Darmo Gandoel on September 29, 2016, 01:12:32 AM

If we buy or sell from someone of course we can manipulate bitcoin price, but if we sell or buy from exchanger of course can't

I think we couldn't manipulate the bitcoin price. The bitcoin rose up because of the demand and supply and the fluctuation. Limited supply the higher the demand so the tendency was the price of bitcoin goes up. We can predict the price but we can't assure that it will gonna happen. Be thankful now because some of us own a btc. They start when the bitcoin is not yet popular so they save more bitcoin until now. If I were that, I will buy my money into bitcoin.

Fatanut

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Quote from: whizter on March 20, 2017, 04:12:48 AM

Quote from: Strongkored on March 18, 2017, 08:46:09 AM

Only people who have many Bitcoin can manipulate the Bitcoin price and maybe they join a group to manipulating the price, need a large amount to manipulate the Bitcoin price.

my be it was possible in past but in present time it may not be possible because now the users of bitcoin are increasing more and more and so it is now becoming more difficult for a single person or group of people to manipulate the price of bitcoin.

True. Because it requires more money and bitcoins to manipulate the price. Back then, the price of bitcoin isn't that much yet and the market cap isn't that high so if you invest 1 million dollars in bitcoin, the price will surely sky rocket and you'll have tons of bitcoins as well. Today, 1 million is just a small percentage of the market cap of bitcoins. Although it can pump the market since not all bitcoins are in exchanger, it's still not going to pump as much as it'd pump back then.

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