Can we Manipulate Bitcoin price? - page 38.

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Quote from: webtricks on February 18, 2017, 12:29:16 PM

Quote from: erwin45hacked on February 18, 2017, 12:16:37 PM

Quote from: webtricks on February 18, 2017, 11:41:03 AM

Quote from: Wapinter on April 24, 2016, 04:40:31 PM

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

I fear its possible now! Bitcoin is already too diversified! Now it is nearly impossible for single seller or buyer to influence price of Bitcoin in any way! It moves greatly owing to forces of market i.e. demand and supply! It has nearly reached the state of "Perfect Competition".

You cant but dont forget that there might be someone who can. It is not really a big deal for someone that owned alot of it, afterall the current price is quite cheap for some rich guy so it is easy to actually see someone that has around 500-1000 btc and let that alone , imagine what a group of those bunch could do to the market

I still got a doubt person holding even 500-1000 btc can mobilize the price much! Think if he stock those btc instead of selling them, which in case of normal commodity can make the price rise but in case of btc will not effect price much. Since there is no limit in its supply right now! Moreover, if he go for mass sale, he for sure consider present rate, thus, contribute nothing but neutralising impact on price!
Bitcoin is not an essential commodity. Its an investment item. Holding or selling by single person will not effect the total market unless he is going to do that at insane amount. Example- selling 500 btc now @ $900 each

I think selling 500 BTC will be nowhere near enough

To correctly assess the effect of selling this number of bitcoins at market price you should take into account the total demand across all major exchanges that would equal this figure. If you just start selling these bitcoins at one exchange that will likely cause the price to go down significantly but ultimately you will be selling below the current market price and arbitrageurs won't miss the opportunity to profit off you. On the other hand, though, selling enough bitcoins may instigate panic selling and then you will be able to buy back at lower prices (and thus profit yourself)

blackhawkeye1912

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Quote from: Wapinter on April 24, 2016, 04:40:31 PM

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

If you are asking the community or the individuals, it can't be manipulate. All I know is the big whale investors only can do the manipulation of the price value of bitcoin or the Big exchanges site can that also to manipulate due to they get bitcoin by volume.

olubams

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Quote from: avikz on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 AM

Being an individual, it is almost impossible to manipulate bitcoin price unless you have few millions to trade in crypto currency market. However, if you have a group of traders with you with good numbers of investment, you may try to put some fake trading requests with good volume and you wish may be fulfilled. But the chance is rare.

Check the market cap of bitcoin. So it is not possible for an individual to fake bitcoin price. A million dollar may come handy there. Just a suggestion!

And that is the most important reason why it is very difficult for the manipulation of bitcoin price even going beyond individuals to more than 200 people. Bitcoin is so dispersed to make all of us agree an impossibility starting from the differences in time zone to the changes in offer price in our individual countries, volume is another thing among other factors that will mitigate against our agreement...

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Quote from: xIIImaL on February 18, 2017, 06:01:00 AM

Quote from: avikz on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 AM

Being an individual, it is almost impossible to manipulate bitcoin price unless you have few millions to trade in crypto currency market. However, if you have a group of traders with you with good numbers of investment, you may try to put some fake trading requests with good volume and you wish may be fulfilled. But the chance is rare.

Check the market cap of bitcoin. So it is not possible for an individual to fake bitcoin price. A million dollar may come handy there. Just a suggestion!

Bitcoin is only can manipulate by blocks. Apart from that no any organization or individual person cannot able to control over btc. If it may control by government when the bitcoin become a centralized and when the government take over it.

There is far relation between technical aspect and economic aspect of a coin when it comes to price manipulation. I believe it is the economic / financial aspect that is active in this field. These people are traders, different kind of. These people may use technical issues, news, worldwide economic etc. to affect and influence the price of Bitcoin.

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Quote from: emezh10 on February 17, 2017, 11:11:44 PM

Yes you can manipulate the price of bitcoin if the 50% of the supply is in your hand because the supply is the key to manipulate it. The price of the bitcoin is based on the supply of it. If bitcoin supply is lessen the price will go up and the supply is growing the price will go down because of that the price is selling and buying bitcoin just like trading. If the 50% of the supply is at your wallet you can control it by buying and selling bitcoin.

Holding that big amount of bitcoin is not necessary to manipulate the price, obviously the more coins you have the better to manipulate the price, but it is not necessary, exchanges have shown the ability to manipulate the market and I don’t remember an exchange with that many coins.

Harlot

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Yes we can manipulate Bitcoin price if all members agreed to position themselves to sell there Bitcoin is one price they will kind of build a wall that will help prevent its price to fall down below it or even vice versa. But I don't think it will be a good idea to control the price as it will be messing around with the market's volatility which traders like because ot can be profitable.

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Quote from: erwin45hacked on February 18, 2017, 12:16:37 PM

Quote from: webtricks on February 18, 2017, 11:41:03 AM

Quote from: Wapinter on April 24, 2016, 04:40:31 PM

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

I fear its possible now! Bitcoin is already too diversified! Now it is nearly impossible for single seller or buyer to influence price of Bitcoin in any way! It moves greatly owing to forces of market i.e. demand and supply! It has nearly reached the state of "Perfect Competition".

You cant but dont forget that there might be someone who can. It is not really a big deal for someone that owned alot of it, afterall the current price is quite cheap for some rich guy so it is easy to actually see someone that has around 500-1000 btc and let that alone , imagine what a group of those bunch could do to the market

I still got a doubt person holding even 500-1000 btc can mobilize the price much! Think if he stock those btc instead of selling them, which in case of normal commodity can make the price rise but in case of btc will not effect price much. Since there is no limit in its supply right now! Moreover, if he go for mass sale, he for sure consider present rate, thus, contribute nothing but neutralising impact on price!
Bitcoin is not an essential commodity. Its an investment item. Holding or selling by single person will not effect the total market unless he is going to do that at insane amount. Example- selling 500 btc now @ $900 each.

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Quote from: mrcash02 on February 18, 2017, 11:37:15 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 18, 2017, 05:51:48 AM

Quote from: mrcash02 on February 17, 2017, 11:31:40 PM

Quote from: wizmo on February 17, 2017, 11:16:11 PM

Quote from: emezh10 on February 17, 2017, 11:11:44 PM

Yes you can manipulate the price of bitcoin if the 50% of the supply is in your hand because the supply is the key to manipulate it. The price of the bitcoin is based on the supply of it. If bitcoin supply is lessen the price will go up and the supply is growing the price will go down because of that the price is selling and buying bitcoin just like trading. If the 50% of the supply is at your wallet you can control it by buying and selling bitcoin.

50% thats too much bitcoins one can have. I've yet to seen anyone with 50% of bitcoins in their wallet.

Or... If someone is able to find holders that together have 50% of Bitcoin amount disponible in the world to work together on something they can have advantages over others. It's possible if there is a common sense of group work, but it wouldn't be a good thing for a decentralized currency that wants to run from any kind of centralization and control

This is a big if bordering on impossible

How are you going to find these big holders? Bitcoin is pretty anonymous to effectively bring any such efforts to naught. Even if purely hypothetically you could find these people (or just one of them), what makes you think that they will listen to you in the first place? Warren Buffett is a public figure, but does it mean you could come up to him and ask him to do something which you think is advantageous?

Bitcoin isn't so anonymous as people says. With a deep investigation it's possible to know personal informations about the Bitcoin users. Maybe the rich guys use stooges at front. If I was hypothetically one of those rich guys I could find anothers and say: hey, let's manipulate Bitcoin price? (Like a secret party, order). Each one of those fellows would control the currency, making more profit than any other person

As I said, Bitcoin is anonymous enough

I didn't say that it is absolutely anonymous. What deep investigation are you going to carry out and what personal information are you going to extract? Unless you are a governmental secret service (and not of some third world country at that), there is basically nothing that you can do. Okay, you can find a few wallets that hold a lot of bitcoins (say, you see around 1M bitcoins in one of them) and what's next? Even if you know that a wallet belongs to someone, what can you do? Why do you think anyone is going to discuss such things with you at all even if you yourself consider yourself a Bitcoin whale?

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Quote from: webtricks on February 18, 2017, 11:41:03 AM

Quote from: Wapinter on April 24, 2016, 04:40:31 PM

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

I fear its possible now! Bitcoin is already too diversified! Now it is nearly impossible for single seller or buyer to influence price of Bitcoin in any way! It moves greatly owing to forces of market i.e. demand and supply! It has nearly reached the state of "Perfect Competition".

You cant but dont forget that there might be someone who can. It is not really a big deal for someone that owned alot of it, afterall the current price is quite cheap for some rich guy so it is easy to actually see someone that has around 500-1000 btc and let that alone , imagine what a group of those bunch could do to the market

webtricks

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Quote from: Wapinter on April 24, 2016, 04:40:31 PM

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

I fear its possible now! Bitcoin is already too diversified! Now it is nearly impossible for single seller or buyer to influence price of Bitcoin in any way! It moves greatly owing to forces of market i.e. demand and supply! It has nearly reached the state of "Perfect Competition".

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Quote from: deisik on February 18, 2017, 05:51:48 AM

Quote from: mrcash02 on February 17, 2017, 11:31:40 PM

Quote from: wizmo on February 17, 2017, 11:16:11 PM

Quote from: emezh10 on February 17, 2017, 11:11:44 PM

Yes you can manipulate the price of bitcoin if the 50% of the supply is in your hand because the supply is the key to manipulate it. The price of the bitcoin is based on the supply of it. If bitcoin supply is lessen the price will go up and the supply is growing the price will go down because of that the price is selling and buying bitcoin just like trading. If the 50% of the supply is at your wallet you can control it by buying and selling bitcoin.

50% thats too much bitcoins one can have. I've yet to seen anyone with 50% of bitcoins in their wallet.

Or... If someone is able to find holders that together have 50% of Bitcoin amount disponible in the world to work together on something they can have advantages over others. It's possible if there is a common sense of group work, but it wouldn't be a good thing for a decentralized currency that wants to run from any kind of centralization and control

This is a big if bordering on impossible

How are you going to find these big holders? Bitcoin is pretty anonymous to effectively bring any such efforts to naught. Even if purely hypothetically you could find these people (or just one of them), what makes you think that they will listen to you in the first place? Warren Buffett is a public figure, but does it mean you could come up to him and ask him to do something which you think is advantageous?

Bitcoin isn't so anonymous as people says. With a deep investigation it's possible to know personal informations about the Bitcoin users. Maybe the rich guys use stooges at front. If I was hypothetically one of those rich guys I could find anothers and say: hey, let's manipulate Bitcoin price? (Like a secret party, order). Each one of those fellows would control the currency, making more profit than any other person.

But surely at some point greedy would make them fight against themselves, and each one of them would try to be the most powerful one to rule the currency alone.

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Quote from: Natalim on February 17, 2017, 08:14:39 AM

Quote from: boyptc on February 17, 2017, 04:48:55 AM

Quote from: wizmo on February 17, 2017, 04:35:35 AM

I don't think we can manipulate bitcoin price it all about supply and demand even if we all try to there will be only little difference is price as bitcoin users are many.

We really can't manipulate bitcoin's price because it's something that is automatically increasing and decreasing base on the supply and demand of it in the market. And if you wanted to do some manipulation you should be one of those people or group that holds a lot of it in able to contribute some movements of its price.

That is the basic way to determine the price movement, however, volume of demand could come from a group of people who are whales or holding a good volume of bitcoin, with that, they can create a fake demand which will increase the price and since that was just a manipulated demand, the price will eventually back to normal or could fall as some people loses some trust when the price is unstable or so volatile.
Maybe in the near future when there's a close to equal distribution of bitcoin we can see that the price movement was due to legitimate demand of the majority. This is just my opinion since I really cannot confirm if this whales still has power to manipulate.

It is why there are some groups that are being called as pump and dump group. And they are also responsible for making the price of bitcoin increase and decrease. Yes that's their main goal, to make the demand of bitcoin as fake one that is reflecting to the whole bitcoin economy that cause the price to pump or dump.

robocop3

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cryptocurrencies may be manipulated so that the price could be increased. recent events once again confirm the fact that China sets price for Bitcoin. The rest of the people to influence the Bitcoin can not.only you are a very very big Bitcoin player I would imagine you could.

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Quote from: avikz on February 18, 2017, 05:27:57 AM

Being an individual, it is almost impossible to manipulate bitcoin price unless you have few millions to trade in crypto currency market. However, if you have a group of traders with you with good numbers of investment, you may try to put some fake trading requests with good volume and you wish may be fulfilled. But the chance is rare.

Check the market cap of bitcoin. So it is not possible for an individual to fake bitcoin price. A million dollar may come handy there. Just a suggestion!

Bitcoin is only can manipulate by blocks. Apart from that no any organization or individual person cannot able to control over btc. If it may control by government when the bitcoin become a centralized and when the government take over it.

robocop3

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cryptocurrencies may be manipulated so that the price could be increased. recent events once again confirm the fact that China sets price for Bitcoin. The rest of the people to influence the Bitcoin can not.only you are a very very big Bitcoin player I would imagine you could.

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Quote from: mrcash02 on February 17, 2017, 11:31:40 PM

Quote from: wizmo on February 17, 2017, 11:16:11 PM

Quote from: emezh10 on February 17, 2017, 11:11:44 PM

Yes you can manipulate the price of bitcoin if the 50% of the supply is in your hand because the supply is the key to manipulate it. The price of the bitcoin is based on the supply of it. If bitcoin supply is lessen the price will go up and the supply is growing the price will go down because of that the price is selling and buying bitcoin just like trading. If the 50% of the supply is at your wallet you can control it by buying and selling bitcoin.

50% thats too much bitcoins one can have. I've yet to seen anyone with 50% of bitcoins in their wallet.

Or... If someone is able to find holders that together have 50% of Bitcoin amount disponible in the world to work together on something they can have advantages over others. It's possible if there is a common sense of group work, but it wouldn't be a good thing for a decentralized currency that wants to run from any kind of centralization and control

This is a big if bordering on impossible

How are you going to find these big holders? Bitcoin is pretty anonymous to effectively bring any such efforts to naught. Even if purely hypothetically you could find these people (or just one of them), what makes you think that they will listen to you in the first place? Warren Buffett is a public figure, but does it mean you could come up to him and ask him to do something which you think is advantageous?

Fatanut

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Quote from: mrcash02 on February 17, 2017, 11:31:40 PM

Quote from: wizmo on February 17, 2017, 11:16:11 PM

Quote from: emezh10 on February 17, 2017, 11:11:44 PM

Yes you can manipulate the price of bitcoin if the 50% of the supply is in your hand because the supply is the key to manipulate it. The price of the bitcoin is based on the supply of it. If bitcoin supply is lessen the price will go up and the supply is growing the price will go down because of that the price is selling and buying bitcoin just like trading. If the 50% of the supply is at your wallet you can control it by buying and selling bitcoin.

50% thats too much bitcoins one can have. I've yet to seen anyone with 50% of bitcoins in their wallet.

Or... If someone is able to find holders that together have 50% of Bitcoin amount disponible in the world to work together on something they can have advantages over others. It's possible if there is a common sense of group work, but it wouldn't be a good thing for a decentralized currency that wants to run from any kind of centralization and control.

I doubt that. I can barely list 10 individuals that I know personally that are using bitcoins. Unless you have an agent working for you, you'll never find out who are the other people that have 50% of the bitcoins. You'll be able to find a website that has the list of the wallet addresses that holds the most bitcoins but how are you going to contact them with that information? We're all anonymous/pseudonymous here so..

Actually, people that holds bitcoin can only sell their coins to manipulate the bitcoin price. They are not going to be buying (unless they chose to) since they already have a huge amount of bitcoins. What you should do is find rich people in the world and encourage them to save their money in bitcoin form. That would surely increase the price.

avikz

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Being an individual, it is almost impossible to manipulate bitcoin price unless you have few millions to trade in crypto currency market. However, if you have a group of traders with you with good numbers of investment, you may try to put some fake trading requests with good volume and you wish may be fulfilled. But the chance is rare.

Check the market cap of bitcoin. So it is not possible for an individual to fake bitcoin price. A million dollar may come handy there. Just a suggestion!

Przemax

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In my opinion ordinary joe can manipulate the price but mostly it works against the group of average joes. Hows that work as Ive noticed? After the price increase there is a flock of Joes that have compulsion to buy more bitcoin just because they made some money on it and its not enough for them. Its never enough so when the price is relativly stable with upward trend with no correction its the average joes that makes the price go up. Not average joes waits for correction mostly.

So yes average joe manipulate the price but only after some whale buy their bitcoins and wait for average joes to increase the price of the bitcoins that whales had bought and then the whale sell . Rinse and repeat every 2 months.

Eodguy149

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You should set up an email list like a few people have done with penny stocks. I'm sure with enough leg work you could get it going! Also, there's a lot less regulatory issues to worry about with crypto Grin

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