just read this post. this is the main reason why crypto currency will be accepted worldwide in the future.
- no need to wait on a long queue
- less transaction feed specially for fund transfers
- no need to go to a bank physically.
just need to develop more secure way or even if it was developed people will always find ways to do something evil. Just be mindful of the transactions and all is good.
welcome to the future...
Topic: Cash is King? I don't think so. (Read 2970 times)
Last April 1, 2014 I decided to compare cash to bitcoin. I did not post that day, because people might think it's a joke, but this is serious.
Fiat / Cash:
1. I went to a bank.
2. The drive was about 20 minutes going there.
3. Paid toll and gas too.
4. Had to write a check to myself to withdraw the cash.
5. Bank had to count the money.
Proof of the money in pictures:
https://i.imgur.com/EAjbQz4.jpg
That's 10 stacks of one thousand Philippine Peso bills.
https://i.imgur.com/gRqEyYV.jpg
That's the buying rate of that particular bank at that day for the USD, so if you want to know the dollar value of the cash I had it was 21,555.55 USD.
6. Stuffed it all in an envelope.
7. Went to the car.
8. Drove to another bank, that took about 15 minutes.
9. Lined up and waited for an available teller. Waited about 30 minutes. Standing. In line.
10. Filled up a cash deposit slip.
11. Waited for the teller to validate the transaction. This means she had to unpack the envelope and look at each individual bill to make sure the money is not counterfeit. This took another 20 minutes.
12. Got the validated deposit slip, transaction is confirmed.
Total time: About 2 hours.
Transaction fee: Gas, Toll, and my rate for 2 hours. Bank also requires a minimum maintaining balance, but let's not count that.
Okay, now, to send my friend in another country 21,555.55 USD worth of bitcoins:
1. Turn on computer. Wait 1 minute.
2. Launch bitcoin-qt. Wait 1 minute.
3. Click "Send". Type details. 1 minute.
4. Enter 64 character alpha numeric special character password to authorize transaction. From memory. 30 seconds.
5. Broadcast. 2 seconds later, 50% of the network knows about it. 10 seconds later, everyone knows about it.
6. Wait for some miner to pick it up and stuff it in his next block. 10 minutes.
Okay, now, my friend, please send back my money. Thanks!
*transaction details have been altered to protect my friend's identity.
Fiat / Cash:
1. I went to a bank.
2. The drive was about 20 minutes going there.
3. Paid toll and gas too.
4. Had to write a check to myself to withdraw the cash.
5. Bank had to count the money.
Proof of the money in pictures:
https://i.imgur.com/EAjbQz4.jpg
That's 10 stacks of one thousand Philippine Peso bills.
https://i.imgur.com/gRqEyYV.jpg
That's the buying rate of that particular bank at that day for the USD, so if you want to know the dollar value of the cash I had it was 21,555.55 USD.
6. Stuffed it all in an envelope.
7. Went to the car.
8. Drove to another bank, that took about 15 minutes.
9. Lined up and waited for an available teller. Waited about 30 minutes. Standing. In line.
10. Filled up a cash deposit slip.
11. Waited for the teller to validate the transaction. This means she had to unpack the envelope and look at each individual bill to make sure the money is not counterfeit. This took another 20 minutes.
12. Got the validated deposit slip, transaction is confirmed.
Total time: About 2 hours.
Transaction fee: Gas, Toll, and my rate for 2 hours. Bank also requires a minimum maintaining balance, but let's not count that.
Okay, now, to send my friend in another country 21,555.55 USD worth of bitcoins:
1. Turn on computer. Wait 1 minute.
2. Launch bitcoin-qt. Wait 1 minute.
3. Click "Send". Type details. 1 minute.
4. Enter 64 character alpha numeric special character password to authorize transaction. From memory. 30 seconds.
5. Broadcast. 2 seconds later, 50% of the network knows about it. 10 seconds later, everyone knows about it.
6. Wait for some miner to pick it up and stuff it in his next block. 10 minutes.
Quote
Status: 398 confirmations
Date: 2014-04-01 09:47
To: Mr Friend In Another Country 1somebitcoinaddress
Debit: -50.24775095 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0001 BTC
Net amount: -50.24785095 BTC
Transaction ID: x8e43axdd9663cdxe81a709ebx5ac7801xb2da18x6bb4ax551a7x2a90exa8ec2
Date: 2014-04-01 09:47
To: Mr Friend In Another Country 1somebitcoinaddress
Debit: -50.24775095 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0001 BTC
Net amount: -50.24785095 BTC
Transaction ID: x8e43axdd9663cdxe81a709ebx5ac7801xb2da18x6bb4ax551a7x2a90exa8ec2
Okay, now, my friend, please send back my money. Thanks!
*transaction details have been altered to protect my friend's identity.
It is PESO so take for such a long time.
I think Bank is more safe, like mtgox, where will be my Bitcoin
Last April 1, 2014 I decided to compare cash to bitcoin. I did not post that day, because people might think it's a joke, but this is serious.
Fiat / Cash:
1. I went to a bank.
2. The drive was about 20 minutes going there.
3. Paid toll and gas too.
4. Had to write a check to myself to withdraw the cash.
5. Bank had to count the money.
Proof of the money in pictures:
That's 10 stacks of one thousand Philippine Peso bills.
That's the buying rate of that particular bank at that day for the USD, so if you want to know the dollar value of the cash I had it was 21,555.55 USD.
6. Stuffed it all in an envelope.
7. Went to the car.
8. Drove to another bank, that took about 15 minutes.
9. Lined up and waited for an available teller. Waited about 30 minutes. Standing. In line.
10. Filled up a cash deposit slip.
11. Waited for the teller to validate the transaction. This means she had to unpack the envelope and look at each individual bill to make sure the money is not counterfeit. This took another 20 minutes.
12. Got the validated deposit slip, transaction is confirmed.
Total time: About 2 hours.
Transaction fee: Gas, Toll, and my rate for 2 hours. Bank also requires a minimum maintaining balance, but let's not count that.
Okay, now, to send my friend in another country 21,555.55 USD worth of bitcoins:
1. Turn on computer. Wait 1 minute.
2. Launch bitcoin-qt. Wait 1 minute.
3. Click "Send". Type details. 1 minute.
4. Enter 64 character alpha numeric special character password to authorize transaction. From memory. 30 seconds.
5. Broadcast. 2 seconds later, 50% of the network knows about it. 10 seconds later, everyone knows about it.
6. Wait for some miner to pick it up and stuff it in his next block. 10 minutes.
Okay, now, my friend, please send back my money. Thanks!
*transaction details have been altered to protect my friend's identity.
Fiat / Cash:
1. I went to a bank.
2. The drive was about 20 minutes going there.
3. Paid toll and gas too.
4. Had to write a check to myself to withdraw the cash.
5. Bank had to count the money.
Proof of the money in pictures:
That's 10 stacks of one thousand Philippine Peso bills.
That's the buying rate of that particular bank at that day for the USD, so if you want to know the dollar value of the cash I had it was 21,555.55 USD.
6. Stuffed it all in an envelope.
7. Went to the car.
8. Drove to another bank, that took about 15 minutes.
9. Lined up and waited for an available teller. Waited about 30 minutes. Standing. In line.
10. Filled up a cash deposit slip.
11. Waited for the teller to validate the transaction. This means she had to unpack the envelope and look at each individual bill to make sure the money is not counterfeit. This took another 20 minutes.
12. Got the validated deposit slip, transaction is confirmed.
Total time: About 2 hours.
Transaction fee: Gas, Toll, and my rate for 2 hours. Bank also requires a minimum maintaining balance, but let's not count that.
Okay, now, to send my friend in another country 21,555.55 USD worth of bitcoins:
1. Turn on computer. Wait 1 minute.
2. Launch bitcoin-qt. Wait 1 minute.
3. Click "Send". Type details. 1 minute.
4. Enter 64 character alpha numeric special character password to authorize transaction. From memory. 30 seconds.
5. Broadcast. 2 seconds later, 50% of the network knows about it. 10 seconds later, everyone knows about it.
6. Wait for some miner to pick it up and stuff it in his next block. 10 minutes.
Quote
Status: 398 confirmations
Date: 2014-04-01 09:47
To: Mr Friend In Another Country 1somebitcoinaddress
Debit: -50.24775095 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0001 BTC
Net amount: -50.24785095 BTC
Transaction ID: x8e43axdd9663cdxe81a709ebx5ac7801xb2da18x6bb4ax551a7x2a90exa8ec2
Date: 2014-04-01 09:47
To: Mr Friend In Another Country 1somebitcoinaddress
Debit: -50.24775095 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0001 BTC
Net amount: -50.24785095 BTC
Transaction ID: x8e43axdd9663cdxe81a709ebx5ac7801xb2da18x6bb4ax551a7x2a90exa8ec2
Okay, now, my friend, please send back my money. Thanks!
*transaction details have been altered to protect my friend's identity.
This is truly dumb and pathetic
You can write transfer money to your friend online via bank or third party online remittance service it only takes few hours
Also you conviently removed the part where u had to convert your fiat to bitcoin which can take days if your using exchange and u lose alot on exchange fees and your friend loses when Bitcoin prices goes down by the time he received it
May I ask what currency that is? Never seen before.
(Can't find the symbol to google it either)
(Can't find the symbol to google it either)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_peso
May I ask what currency that is? Never seen before.
(Can't find the symbol to google it either)
(Can't find the symbol to google it either)
You have nice handwriting, Dabs.
I like what your saying just giving answers to what I do compared to your situation.
I use a debit card.
I've never waited that long in my life again debit go to ATM to withdraw or deposit.
I understand things are different everywhere when it comes to banking but in the US it's kinds convenient.
I use a debit card.
I've never waited that long in my life again debit go to ATM to withdraw or deposit.
I understand things are different everywhere when it comes to banking but in the US it's kinds convenient.
I'd use the debit card, if it did not limit me to 25,000 PHP per transaction. The account where I was getting the money from did not have a debit card though.
The ATM machines in my country have limits, unfortunately.
These thing are too different to compare!
Finnaly good insight and comparsion, gotta agree with you bitcoin transaction is safer, simplier and cheaper.
Last April 1, 2014 I decided to compare cash to bitcoin. I did not post that day, because people might think it's a joke, but this is serious.
Fiat / Cash:
1. I went to a bank.
2. The drive was about 20 minutes going there.
3. Paid toll and gas too.
4. Had to write a check to myself to withdraw the cash.
5. Bank had to count the money.
Proof of the money in pictures:
That's 10 stacks of one thousand Philippine Peso bills.
That's the buying rate of that particular bank at that day for the USD, so if you want to know the dollar value of the cash I had it was 21,555.55 USD.
6. Stuffed it all in an envelope.
7. Went to the car.
8. Drove to another bank, that took about 15 minutes.
9. Lined up and waited for an available teller. Waited about 30 minutes. Standing. In line.
10. Filled up a cash deposit slip.
11. Waited for the teller to validate the transaction. This means she had to unpack the envelope and look at each individual bill to make sure the money is not counterfeit. This took another 20 minutes.
12. Got the validated deposit slip, transaction is confirmed.
Total time: About 2 hours.
Transaction fee: Gas, Toll, and my rate for 2 hours. Bank also requires a minimum maintaining balance, but let's not count that.
Okay, now, to send my friend in another country 21,555.55 USD worth of bitcoins:
1. Turn on computer. Wait 1 minute.
2. Launch bitcoin-qt. Wait 1 minute.
3. Click "Send". Type details. 1 minute.
4. Enter 64 character alpha numeric special character password to authorize transaction. From memory. 30 seconds.
5. Broadcast. 2 seconds later, 50% of the network knows about it. 10 seconds later, everyone knows about it.
6. Wait for some miner to pick it up and stuff it in his next block. 10 minutes.
Okay, now, my friend, please send back my money. Thanks!
*transaction details have been altered to protect my friend's identity.
Fiat / Cash:
1. I went to a bank.
2. The drive was about 20 minutes going there.
3. Paid toll and gas too.
4. Had to write a check to myself to withdraw the cash.
5. Bank had to count the money.
Proof of the money in pictures:
That's 10 stacks of one thousand Philippine Peso bills.
That's the buying rate of that particular bank at that day for the USD, so if you want to know the dollar value of the cash I had it was 21,555.55 USD.
6. Stuffed it all in an envelope.
7. Went to the car.
8. Drove to another bank, that took about 15 minutes.
9. Lined up and waited for an available teller. Waited about 30 minutes. Standing. In line.
10. Filled up a cash deposit slip.
11. Waited for the teller to validate the transaction. This means she had to unpack the envelope and look at each individual bill to make sure the money is not counterfeit. This took another 20 minutes.
12. Got the validated deposit slip, transaction is confirmed.
Total time: About 2 hours.
Transaction fee: Gas, Toll, and my rate for 2 hours. Bank also requires a minimum maintaining balance, but let's not count that.
Okay, now, to send my friend in another country 21,555.55 USD worth of bitcoins:
1. Turn on computer. Wait 1 minute.
2. Launch bitcoin-qt. Wait 1 minute.
3. Click "Send". Type details. 1 minute.
4. Enter 64 character alpha numeric special character password to authorize transaction. From memory. 30 seconds.
5. Broadcast. 2 seconds later, 50% of the network knows about it. 10 seconds later, everyone knows about it.
6. Wait for some miner to pick it up and stuff it in his next block. 10 minutes.
Quote
Status: 398 confirmations
Date: 2014-04-01 09:47
To: Mr Friend In Another Country 1somebitcoinaddress
Debit: -50.24775095 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0001 BTC
Net amount: -50.24785095 BTC
Transaction ID: x8e43axdd9663cdxe81a709ebx5ac7801xb2da18x6bb4ax551a7x2a90exa8ec2
Date: 2014-04-01 09:47
To: Mr Friend In Another Country 1somebitcoinaddress
Debit: -50.24775095 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0001 BTC
Net amount: -50.24785095 BTC
Transaction ID: x8e43axdd9663cdxe81a709ebx5ac7801xb2da18x6bb4ax551a7x2a90exa8ec2
Okay, now, my friend, please send back my money. Thanks!
*transaction details have been altered to protect my friend's identity.
I like what your saying just giving answers to what I do compared to your situation.
4. Had to write a check to myself to withdraw the cash.
I use a debit card.
9. Lined up and waited for an available teller. Waited about 30 minutes. Standing. In line
I've never waited that long in my life again debit go to ATM to withdraw or deposit.
I understand things are different everywhere when it comes to banking but in the US it's kinds convenient.
One of the things everyone here is missing is that what he did (sending money internationally) is basically getting to be impossible if you try to do it from the US.
US banks (See Chase) are shutting down international wire transfers for individuals and small businesses.
So, you can't even compare really...
1. Send bitcoin in minutes to anyone, anywhere, any time without filling out paperwork or having your transfer delayed, reversed, or denied.
2. Use a banking system that will charge you up to 10%, make you fill out invasive paperwork, take several days, and probably get declined due to the amount, or where it is going as they nanny you and tell you it is "too much of a risk".
US banks (See Chase) are shutting down international wire transfers for individuals and small businesses.
So, you can't even compare really...
1. Send bitcoin in minutes to anyone, anywhere, any time without filling out paperwork or having your transfer delayed, reversed, or denied.
2. Use a banking system that will charge you up to 10%, make you fill out invasive paperwork, take several days, and probably get declined due to the amount, or where it is going as they nanny you and tell you it is "too much of a risk".
and for bitcoin you already got charged with 2 exchange fees. (govt. money -> bitcoin -> govt. money)
Definitely not. I will be paid in BTC. And I'll use those BTCs for my day-to-day expenses. There is no need for any currency exchange.
Excahnge rates = death of fiat
For people living in the US, it is not a problem. But consider my example.
I work at Freelancer.com and is paid £100 for my work. They deduct a fee of £10 and I am left with £90.
Now I deposit this to my Paypal account and they immediately deduct £3 as fee and £3 in exchange rates (My PP account is in USD, as most of the payments which I receive is in that currency).
I need to convert the money in to local currency, so that I can deposit it my bank. Biased exchange rate means that I lose another £3. So... out of £100, now I am left with £81.
Here is the comparison:
Paypal: £ 100 ==> £ 81
Bitcoin £ 100 ==> £ 88-89
and for bitcoin you already got charged with 2 exchange fees. (govt. money -> bitcoin -> govt. money)
If bitcoin has enough liquidity to be used directly for everything (including paying you), you'll end up owning ~ 99.5 pounds after transfer
Excahnge rates = death of fiat
For people living in the US, it is not a problem. But consider my example.
I work at Freelancer.com and is paid £100 for my work. They deduct a fee of £10 and I am left with £90.
Now I deposit this to my Paypal account and they immediately deduct £3 as fee and £3 in exchange rates (My PP account is in USD, as most of the payments which I receive is in that currency).
I need to convert the money in to local currency, so that I can deposit it my bank. Biased exchange rate means that I lose another £3. So... out of £100, now I am left with £81.
Here is the comparison:
Paypal: £ 100 ==> £ 81
Bitcoin £ 100 ==> £ 88-89
I remember Checks was king, before Cash was king. Then 90s was having the platinum American express CC was king also.
Excahnge rates = death of fiat
http://bitcoinstats.com/network/propagation/
http://bitcoinstats.com/network/propagation/2014/04/03
So, basically, wait 1 second to 5 seconds, after you've seen the transaction. In a little bit more than half a minute, all nodes would have seen your transaction. No funny stuff? Treat as good, it probably is.
Notice that BitPay processes almost instantly without waiting for a block.
You'll find out in the next few blocks.
Quote
Block 50th, Block 90th, Transaction 50th, Transaction 90th
2014/04/03 3.7 seconds 12.8 seconds 1.3 seconds 3.0 seconds
2014/04/03 3.7 seconds 12.8 seconds 1.3 seconds 3.0 seconds
http://bitcoinstats.com/network/propagation/2014/04/03
Quote
Block Percentiles
50th 3.7 seconds
75th 6.6 seconds
90th 12.8 seconds
95th 22.0 seconds
99th 80.538 seconds
Transaction Percentiles
50th 1.3 seconds
75th 1.9 seconds
90th 3.0 seconds
95th 4.1 seconds
99th 33.6 seconds
50th 3.7 seconds
75th 6.6 seconds
90th 12.8 seconds
95th 22.0 seconds
99th 80.538 seconds
Transaction Percentiles
50th 1.3 seconds
75th 1.9 seconds
90th 3.0 seconds
95th 4.1 seconds
99th 33.6 seconds
So, basically, wait 1 second to 5 seconds, after you've seen the transaction. In a little bit more than half a minute, all nodes would have seen your transaction. No funny stuff? Treat as good, it probably is.
Notice that BitPay processes almost instantly without waiting for a block.
You'll find out in the next few blocks.
Well whole point of bitcoin is that transactions and daily payments are much easier.
The time required for confirming a transaction is worrying me.
Blockchain can detect double-spends almost instantaneously.
Wait 2 seconds = 50% of network has the transaction.
Wait 10 seconds = 99% of the network has the transaction.
Check transaction if it has a fee, and it will likely be included in a block soon.
Check if a double-spend is detected, if none, it will likely be included in a block, but maybe later if no fee or low fee.
No need to wait for a confirmation.
Only worry if any of the following conditions are met:
1. double-spend detected.
2. no fee or low fee, and blockchain says it might take awhile to confirm.
Personally, I've had a transaction take a day to confirm, but I was not worried because there were no double spends. It took that long because the blocks ran out of space for free transactions.
Now I include a minimum fee in all my spends even if it is not required.
For most use cases where you have the option to pay by bank wire or check, that means the merchant or other party can wait 10 minutes. It may not work as well for instant purchases or very small transactions without some sort of third-party processor that "guarantees" the transaction. Or some dice site that accepts the risk of zero confirmations.
I just pretend that I paid using a check that clears in an hour.
As a merchant, I would accept as payment any bitcoin transaction that:
1. Does not seem to have any problems after 30 seconds.
2. Includes at least 0.0001 as a transaction fee.
Well whole point of bitcoin is that transactions and daily payments are much easier.
The time required for confirming a transaction is worrying me.
Blockchain can detect double-spends almost instantaneously.
Well whole point of bitcoin is that transactions and daily payments are much easier.
The time required for confirming a transaction is worrying me.
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