Cash is King? I don't think so. - page 2.

Dabs

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Quote from: pening on April 03, 2014, 01:48:38 PM

The point is, if you are expecting Bitcoin to become common usage to solve the matter of money transfers, i'm afraid there is limited scope. One tweak to existing business model and agreements and the advantage disappears for Bitcoin.

If bitcoin forces banks to become "better", that's a good thing isn't it? It's essentially competition.

However, banks are still centralized and controlled by governments. That's not likely to change.

pening

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As much as i admire the effort of the OP research, and for his case it is no doubt correct, it misses a crucial point: not all banks work like that.

If i want to transfer fund in the UK from my bank to another UK account, there's no fee and its near instant (never actually time tested, but when i've transferred funds recipient has report it there at their next login). If i want to transfer anywhere in EU its near instant and theres a flat fee £15 though some banks vary. That's 0.075% fee on £20k. Its the same or similar across Europe.

The only limitation is the bank's infrastructure or business model that relies on fees. A multi-lateral agreement to ditch fees between banks (as has occurred within the UK) and we'd have completely free intercontinental transfers.

The point is, if you are expecting Bitcoin to become common usage to solve the matter of money transfers, i'm afraid there is limited scope. One tweak to existing business model and agreements and the advantage disappears for Bitcoin.

skooter

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on April 03, 2014, 03:48:15 AM

BTC has extremely low fees (for any large transaction) and is pretty fast.
For smaller amounts, you can get virtually no fees and super-fast times, with alt coins.

BTC > Wiring money.

And again, you're ignoring the costs and time to transfer money into BTC, and transfer BTC back into money.

beatljuice

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I don't think the point of the demonstration was understood.

If we have a Bitcoin (or cryptocurrency) based world economy we don't need to deal with all these expensive and time consuming transfer issues, we can spend that time and money making more money, or having sex.

Bit_Happy

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Quote from: BitOnyx on April 03, 2014, 07:03:35 AM

Well whole point of bitcoin is that transactions and daily payments are much easier.

What about a limited money supply,
Not controlled by the Feds?

ChuckBuck

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Quote from: Keyser Soze on April 03, 2014, 11:11:17 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 03, 2014, 10:54:52 AM

Sorry $76 wire charged from Wells Fargo to Bank of America in St Louis. Just checked my checking acct:

Quote

12/30/13
ONLINE TRANSFER FROM WAY2SAVE SAVINGS 2 BLACK ARROW PROSPERO X1 BITCOIN MINERS
$780.33

The wire was for 2 Black Arrow X-1 miners at $704, so the rest is the wire charge.

To be honest, $76 for a domestic wire is a total rip off. I can't imagine it being 2.5x higher then what the brochure I linked states. If the $45 or so is important to you, I would inquire as to why the fee was so high.

Not sure, they said it was standard fees for bank to bank(non Wells Fargo).

It is what it is, maybe they don't play nice with Bank of America.

Keyser Soze

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Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 03, 2014, 10:54:52 AM

Sorry $76 wire charged from Wells Fargo to Bank of America in St Louis. Just checked my checking acct:

Quote

12/30/13
ONLINE TRANSFER FROM WAY2SAVE SAVINGS 2 BLACK ARROW PROSPERO X1 BITCOIN MINERS
$780.33

The wire was for 2 Black Arrow X-1 miners at $704, so the rest is the wire charge.

To be honest, $76 for a domestic wire is a total rip off. I can't imagine it being 2.5x higher then what the brochure I linked states. If the $45 or so is important to you, I would inquire as to why the fee was so high.

ChuckBuck

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Quote from: Keyser Soze on April 03, 2014, 10:44:32 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 03, 2014, 08:56:36 AM

As much as I don't love banking, I don't think Wells Fargo is a scam bank. $80 is standard there.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

$80 sounds high unless maybe you were wiring a small amount in a foreign currency. The normal fee for domestic wires at wells is $30*. $25-$35 is pretty common for domestic and maybe $35-$50 for international. International wires in a foreign currency may be more expensive depending on the exchange fees being charged.

*See https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/downloads/pdf/online_disclosures/FEE/EN/FII.pdf page 49.

Sorry $76 wire charged from Wells Fargo to Bank of America in St Louis. Just checked my checking acct:

Quote

12/30/13
ONLINE TRANSFER FROM WAY2SAVE SAVINGS 2 BLACK ARROW PROSPERO X1 BITCOIN MINERS
$780.33

The wire was for 2 Black Arrow X-1 miners at $704, so the rest is the wire charge.

Keyser Soze

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Activity: 470

Merit: 250

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 03, 2014, 08:56:36 AM

As much as I don't love banking, I don't think Wells Fargo is a scam bank. $80 is standard there.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

$80 sounds high unless maybe you were wiring a small amount in a foreign currency. The normal fee for domestic wires at wells is $30*. $25-$35 is pretty common for domestic and maybe $35-$50 for international. International wires in a foreign currency may be more expensive depending on the exchange fees being charged.

*See https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/downloads/pdf/online_disclosures/FEE/EN/FII.pdf page 49.

ChuckBuck

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better everyday ♥

Quote from: skooter on April 03, 2014, 12:59:56 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 03, 2014, 12:50:45 AM

Quote from: skooter on April 03, 2014, 12:44:37 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 03, 2014, 12:14:45 AM

Quote from: skooter on April 03, 2014, 12:07:30 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 02, 2014, 11:50:12 PM

Quote from: skooter on April 02, 2014, 11:20:36 PM

You can wire transfer people money much easier then that.

You can even do it for free if you have certain business bank accounts (100K+ min balance ofc)

Did a wire transfer from one bank to another bank a few months back, the charge was like $80 or something and took 3-5 days.

Nope, don't share your sentiment.

I did a wire transfer once. Wired like 25K, the charge was $25 and took < 1 hour.

Bitcoin isn't fee free.

You have to convert $$ into bitcoin, send bitcoin, then the receiver has to convert bitcoin into $$.

That process can take weeks.

Coinbase has instant buys. As soon as I click buy, I get Bitcoin.

Transferring to another wallet address takes a few minutes, maybe an hour or so.

Depending on how the other person wants to convert BTC to fiat and their institution, it could take minutes, hours, or days tops.

It doesn't take weeks, not sure if you've ever done a Bitcoin transaction before.

Ok, coinbase charges a huge 1% fee (that's big in the currency transaction world. Trading between USD/EUR for instance, costs you a few pips at most). That's on top of the bid-ask spread . So if you're sending 10K, that's $100 for their fee alone. And I don't think you can instant buy that much.

$1 for $100 is huge now? That's nothing compared to a Wire Transfer fee. I paid $80 just to wire $800. By my math that's 10%.

Not a Mickey mouse bank either, Wells Fargo, the biggest bank in the US.

By the way my daily buy limit on Coinbase is $50,000.

Yeah, well, I would only wire transfer money if it's a large amount. Like > 10K.

And you got scammed if you paid $80 to wire transfer money. Typical outgoing wire tx fee in the US is around $25 for domestic, $40 for international. $25 out of 10K is .25%.

There's other ways to move money around that has less fees. Like you could use chase quickpay, which is free. People use wire transfers because they are very hard to reverse. If the recipient trusts the sender there's plenty of low cost ways to move money around.

The OP was talking about moving around a fairly large amount of money.

As much as I don't love banking, I don't think Wells Fargo is a scam bank. $80 is standard there.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

counter

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Time is on our side, yes it is!

great experiment Dabs. This is the thing with bitcoins that I love so much...
I can send coins all over the world and in a few minutes it's been verified and both parties can see this in real time. I don't have to worry about a money order being stolen or crazy fees and wait times...

BitOnyx

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Cryptocurrencies Exchange

Well whole point of bitcoin is that transactions and daily payments are much easier.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Dabs on April 03, 2014, 03:40:11 AM

Sir, that's Philippine Peso. Not RUR.

Oops... made a mistake. The symbols are so similar. Grin

zolace

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Yeah and you dont have to waste time and gas to get to the bank and spend more on gas just to do so, Banks are a joke when it comes to exchaning peper currency

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

BTC has extremely low fees (for any large transaction) and is pretty fast.
For smaller amounts, you can get virtually no fees and super-fast times, with alt coins.

BTC > Wiring money.

Dabs

legendary

Activity: 3416

Merit: 1912

The Concierge of Crypto

Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 03, 2014, 12:23:32 AM

I don't understand this. The current exchange rate for RUR vs USD is 1 USD = 35.67 RUR.

Then why the selling rate is given as 1 USD = 45 RUR? That's daylight robbery!

Sir, that's Philippine Peso. Not RUR.

Quote from: n3lz0n on April 03, 2014, 12:30:14 AM

note: lining up in the Philippines is a normal they double / triple check BEFORE they let you withdraw money, on top of that the teller have to ask the manager to sign the withdrawal slip... ONLY in the Philippines such a SLOW system.

+ the FEAR of getting rob as you go OUT of the bank as there's WAY TOO many eyes watching...

Only in the Philippines

Yes. Scary. I have another post here on this forum about 3 million pesos (60k USD). In those cases, I take a non-standard route that goes through armed security, as well as keep my 1911 (Armscor GI model) fully loaded.

Quote from: Meuh6879 on April 03, 2014, 02:51:23 AM

Quote from: BorderBits on April 03, 2014, 12:50:36 AM

wow, op, you suck at money

if you have 10-20 years of economy ... not a big deal.

And, how do I suck for money? That's the deal, it had to be done.

On other days, the money transfer is from one bank to another and the other bank is literally next door. Between the two doors, there are 6 armed security guards. The counting and lining up still takes time. I have someone line up for me in the second bank while I'm in the first bank waiting.

Meuh6879

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Quote from: BorderBits on April 03, 2014, 12:50:36 AM

wow, op, you suck at money

if you have 10-20 years of economy ... not a big deal.

stokecrypto

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youve just got to withdraw the bitcoin into fiat and transfer to your bank account. still takes days!!

skooter

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Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 03, 2014, 12:50:45 AM

Quote from: skooter on April 03, 2014, 12:44:37 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 03, 2014, 12:14:45 AM

Quote from: skooter on April 03, 2014, 12:07:30 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 02, 2014, 11:50:12 PM

Quote from: skooter on April 02, 2014, 11:20:36 PM

You can wire transfer people money much easier then that.

You can even do it for free if you have certain business bank accounts (100K+ min balance ofc)

Did a wire transfer from one bank to another bank a few months back, the charge was like $80 or something and took 3-5 days.

Nope, don't share your sentiment.

I did a wire transfer once. Wired like 25K, the charge was $25 and took < 1 hour.

Bitcoin isn't fee free.

You have to convert $$ into bitcoin, send bitcoin, then the receiver has to convert bitcoin into $$.

That process can take weeks.

Coinbase has instant buys. As soon as I click buy, I get Bitcoin.

Transferring to another wallet address takes a few minutes, maybe an hour or so.

Depending on how the other person wants to convert BTC to fiat and their institution, it could take minutes, hours, or days tops.

It doesn't take weeks, not sure if you've ever done a Bitcoin transaction before.

Ok, coinbase charges a huge 1% fee (that's big in the currency transaction world. Trading between USD/EUR for instance, costs you a few pips at most). That's on top of the bid-ask spread . So if you're sending 10K, that's $100 for their fee alone. And I don't think you can instant buy that much.

$1 for $100 is huge now? That's nothing compared to a Wire Transfer fee. I paid $80 just to wire $800. By my math that's 10%.

Not a Mickey mouse bank either, Wells Fargo, the biggest bank in the US.

By the way my daily buy limit on Coinbase is $50,000.

Yeah, well, I would only wire transfer money if it's a large amount. Like > 10K.

And you got scammed if you paid $80 to wire transfer money. Typical outgoing wire tx fee in the US is around $25 for domestic, $40 for international. $25 out of 10K is .25%.

There's other ways to move money around that has less fees. Like you could use chase quickpay, which is free. People use wire transfers because they are very hard to reverse. If the recipient trusts the sender there's plenty of low cost ways to move money around.

The OP was talking about moving around a fairly large amount of money.

ChuckBuck

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Activity: 1372

Merit: 783

better everyday ♥

Quote from: skooter on April 03, 2014, 12:44:37 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 03, 2014, 12:14:45 AM

Quote from: skooter on April 03, 2014, 12:07:30 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 02, 2014, 11:50:12 PM

Quote from: skooter on April 02, 2014, 11:20:36 PM

You can wire transfer people money much easier then that.

You can even do it for free if you have certain business bank accounts (100K+ min balance ofc)

Did a wire transfer from one bank to another bank a few months back, the charge was like $80 or something and took 3-5 days.

Nope, don't share your sentiment.

I did a wire transfer once. Wired like 25K, the charge was $25 and took < 1 hour.

Bitcoin isn't fee free.

You have to convert $$ into bitcoin, send bitcoin, then the receiver has to convert bitcoin into $$.

That process can take weeks.

Coinbase has instant buys. As soon as I click buy, I get Bitcoin.

Transferring to another wallet address takes a few minutes, maybe an hour or so.

Depending on how the other person wants to convert BTC to fiat and their institution, it could take minutes, hours, or days tops.

It doesn't take weeks, not sure if you've ever done a Bitcoin transaction before.

Ok, coinbase charges a huge 1% fee (that's big in the currency transaction world. Trading between USD/EUR for instance, costs you a few pips at most). That's on top of the bid-ask spread . So if you're sending 10K, that's $100 for their fee alone. And I don't think you can instant buy that much.

$1 for $100 is huge now? That's nothing compared to a Wire Transfer fee. I paid $80 just to wire $800. By my math that's 10%.

Not a Mickey mouse bank either, Wells Fargo, the biggest bank in the US.

By the way my daily buy limit on Coinbase is $50,000.

Topic: Cash is King? I don't think so. - page 2. (Read 2970 times)