CCminer(SP-MOD) Modded NVIDIA Maxwell / Pascal kernels. - page 740.

pallas

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Quote from: Grim on March 14, 2016, 05:22:26 AM

Quote from: pallas on March 14, 2016, 05:16:31 AM

you don't need to be "memory hard", you need a "changing" algo so a fixed chip design is more difficult.
that's not the case of monero and hodl.

so how is that done? any example already out there?

not that I know of.
but I don't understand all that "asic resistant" hype.
as people has been saying for years: if it's worth, asics will come.
worth = high market cap: if you invested in the coin, you should be happy, not sad ;-)

Grim

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Quote from: pallas on March 14, 2016, 05:16:31 AM

you don't need to be "memory hard", you need a "changing" algo so a fixed chip design is more difficult.
that's not the case of monero and hodl.

so how is that done? any example already out there?

pallas

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Quote from: Ayers on March 14, 2016, 05:12:50 AM

Quote from: Grim on March 14, 2016, 05:01:29 AM

@ Wolf

So what is your idea of an ASIC resistant algo?
The most extreme algo in that direction is probably Burst.

But since anything can be calculated on the fly ... this is a losing battle?

I'm sorry but fpgas and asics are VERY much against a decentralized distribution.
You guys think to much about how to milk a coin and forget on the other hand that nobody cares for a coin which gets milked. Like shooting in your own foot.

(Yes I know you can make a shitton of money that way, but it essentially is against EVERYTHING cryptocoins stand for)

monero is a good candidate, since not even gpu are efficient there, so asic will not be efficient too, hodlcoin use an evolution of monero algo, so that is the way to go

gpus are no more efficient than cpus on monero and hodl because cpus use the aes extension.
if the gpu had the same, they'd be much more efficient than cpus.
still the post by wolf0 is valid.
you don't need to be "memory hard", you need a "changing" algo so a fixed chip design is more difficult.
that's not the case of monero and hodl.

Ayers

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Quote from: Grim on March 14, 2016, 05:01:29 AM

@ Wolf

So what is your idea of an ASIC resistant algo?
The most extreme algo in that direction is probably Burst.

But since anything can be calculated on the fly ... this is a losing battle?

I'm sorry but fpgas and asics are VERY much against a decentralized distribution.
You guys think to much about how to milk a coin and forget on the other hand that nobody cares for a coin which gets milked. Like shooting in your own foot.

(Yes I know you can make a shitton of money that way, but it essentially is against EVERYTHING cryptocoins stand for)

monero is a good candidate, since not even gpu are efficient there, so asic will not be efficient too, hodlcoin use an evolution of monero algo, so that is the way to go

Ayers

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Quote from: Grim on March 14, 2016, 04:19:59 AM

Quote from: Ayers on March 14, 2016, 02:28:33 AM

also if ethereum go pos, another big coin will emerge, probably decred, so a pump there is not so unexpected in the near future
the money will always move in way or another and diff will follow

one HUGE flaw ...

Decred will have ASIC's in a matter of months. Easy to implement compute only algo. (kindergarten)

And ETH actually has a VERY hard memory algo which has pretty much the best ASIC resistance in existence.
Yet exactly that coin gos POS ... (strange world we live in, ain't it) Roll Eyes

If the algos were the other way around you would be right ...

it may be right but decred can always be forked for a better algo, there is an evolution of ethereum algo, the one used by HODL coin, i'm not sure, they could use that for the future if decred get big
or maybe a new strong currency will emerge with that algo or a new one, you will never know, like decred emerged from nothing, another altcoin can do the same

Grim

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@ Wolf

So what is your idea of an ASIC resistant algo?
The most extreme algo in that direction is probably Burst.

But since anything can be calculated on the fly ... this is a losing battle?

I'm sorry but fpgas and asics are VERY much against a decentralized distribution.
You guys think to much about how to milk a coin and forget on the other hand that nobody cares for a coin which gets milked. Like shooting in your own foot.

(Yes I know you can make a shitton of money that way, but it essentially is against EVERYTHING cryptocoins stand for)

chrysophylax

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: sp_ on March 14, 2016, 04:43:50 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Dead on. But I looked at some Blake-256 code, Kramble's. Probably different from the code you're thinking of, but anyways, it wasn't all that awesome. So you'd probably want to do your own design if you're gonna commit to a manufacturing run.

To reduce the cost there are co-ops between developers to print an asic with many kernals in one chip and split the cost. Since blake-256 will take little chip space you might get a good deal, I.E pay 1% of the cost of the chip.. But then you need to draw the circut board, print it (expensive). mount it. And make code for it. If decred's MCAP goes up to 20MUSD it might be worth it...

I think FPGA is the way to go.. Less investments, programable, buit also much slower than an asic..

Fuck that noise, if I'm making an ASIC for a coin, I may as well go whole hog. I want to fit as many Blake-256 hashing cores as I can on each chip. I have a Blake-256 Decred implementation I run on FPGA that uses a 56-stage pipeline in order to keep outputting one result per clock tick, yet have very little delay so it'll clock to the moon. I can fit two of them on my Cyclone V - imagine what you could have for hashrate if you could pack a shitton of them on a chip made with the latest fabs (14nm) and put multiple chips on a board...

which is THE reason im looking for an investor to take on the 'challenge' ...

ooops! ... did i say that out loud? ...

Wink

...

#crysx

sp_

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: sp_ on March 14, 2016, 04:43:50 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Dead on. But I looked at some Blake-256 code, Kramble's. Probably different from the code you're thinking of, but anyways, it wasn't all that awesome. So you'd probably want to do your own design if you're gonna commit to a manufacturing run.

To reduce the cost there are co-ops between developers to print an asic with many kernals in one chip and split the cost. Since blake-256 will take little chip space you might get a good deal, I.E pay 1% of the cost of the chip.. But then you need to draw the circut board, print it (expensive). mount it. And make code for it. If decred's MCAP goes up to 20MUSD it might be worth it...
I think FPGA is the way to go.. Less investments, programable, buit also much slower than an asic..

Fuck that noise, if I'm making an ASIC for a coin, I may as well go whole hog. I want to fit as many Blake-256 hashing cores as I can on each chip. I have a Blake-256 Decred implementation I run on FPGA that uses a 56-stage pipeline in order to keep outputting one result per clock tick, yet have very little delay so it'll clock to the moon. I can fit two of them on my Cyclone V - imagine what you could have for hashrate if you could pack a shitton of them on a chip made with the latest fabs (14nm) and put multiple chips on a board...

Here are some numbers from blake coin(8 round blake 256):

1.6GH/s on a ZTEX USB-FPGA 1.15y Quad Spartan-6 LX150 Development Board
1.5GH/s on a Enterpoint Cairnsmore 1 Quad Spartan-6 LX150 Development Board
960MH/s on a Lancelot Dual Spartan-6 LX150 Development Board
360MH/s on a ZTEX USB-FPGA 1.15x Spartan-6 LX150 Development Board

pallas

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On a side note, I've worked on hodlcoin algo (which is similar to memorycoin and has a 1GB scratchpad of "random" data).
It is a bit different than the dag file because it depends on the blockheader (including the nonce), still a similar "memory hard" algo.
As a test I tried generating the scratchpad slice I need on the fly, instead of doing it all in advance. That way you only need 8KB of data instead of 1GB.
Without specific optimisations, it was about half the speed (on CPU). On GPU, it probably would be faster than keeping the full buffer.
It is very interesting because generating on fly means an order of magnitude more calculations (for the sha512 part), still it is only 2 times slower because of the much better cache usage.

sp_

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Dead on. But I looked at some Blake-256 code, Kramble's. Probably different from the code you're thinking of, but anyways, it wasn't all that awesome. So you'd probably want to do your own design if you're gonna commit to a manufacturing run.

To reduce the cost there are co-ops between developers to print an asic with many kernals in one chip and split the cost. Since blake-256 will take little chip space you might get a good deal, I.E pay 1% of the cost of the chip.. But then you need to draw the circut board, print it (expensive). mount it. And make code for it. If decred's MCAP goes up to 20MUSD it might be worth it...

I think FPGA is the way to go.. Less investments, programable, buit also much slower than an asic..

sp_

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Quote from: Grim on March 14, 2016, 04:19:59 AM

one HUGE flaw ...
Decred will have ASIC's in a matter of months. Easy to implement compute only algo. (kindergarten)

The VHDL code is already there opensource. blake-256. But the problem is the cost of producing the chips. Decred has a marketcap of 2MUSD. An altcoin mosqito.

sp_

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Etherum will hardfork, but dwarfpool has 57% of the network hashrate. What if they refuse to upgrade the wallet. Then there will be no hardfork..

Etherum

Nethashrate: 1 303 320 GHASH
Dwarfpool: 740 872 GHASH

In the early Dash days (darkcoin) many pools refused to upgrade their wallets, because the payouts to the miners was reduced.

Grim

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Quote from: Ayers on March 14, 2016, 02:28:33 AM

also if ethereum go pos, another big coin will emerge, probably decred, so a pump there is not so unexpected in the near future
the money will always move in way or another and diff will follow

one HUGE flaw ...

Decred will have ASIC's in a matter of months. Easy to implement compute only algo. (kindergarten)

And ETH actually has a VERY hard memory algo which has pretty much the best ASIC resistance in existence.
Yet exactly that coin gos POS ... (strange world we live in, ain't it) Roll Eyes

If the algos were the other way around you would be right ...

Vaccomondus

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sp can you work on integrating blake2s algo on this? wolfo has reached 2,5 giga per card

Ayers

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bensam1231 on March 13, 2016, 11:00:57 PM

Quote from: Vaccomondus on March 13, 2016, 12:52:16 PM

Quote from: bensam1231 on March 13, 2016, 12:42:51 PM

Quote from: Vaccomondus on March 13, 2016, 05:19:09 AM

ethereum is much more profitable to mine so this is pointless, i can mine ethereum and buy more decred than mining decred

And BTC used to be profitable for GPUs to mine. Things change. We're in a huge profit bubble right now and that can pop at any moment and then all hell is going to break loose when all that Eth hash hits all the other GPU coins.

it does not work like that, they dump? i'm fine, diff will adjust = same profit as before

Oh yeah? I don't think it works the way you're thinking. Why do you think profitability will be the same if Eth loses market value? No other coin is nearly as profitable and Eth has hand over fist more hash then any other coin. If it starts to equalize the other coins can't support the amount of hash.

As I mentioned before, GPU mining hash has grown about 30% in the last two weeks... Maybe closer to 50% as Eth has gained another 300Mh since then.

This is completely putting aside Eth can crash and it can go PoS, which means no more mining. They have talked about PoS already.

Decred has some pretty damned good profitability - it may not exceed Eth for all GPUs, but it comes fairly close.

also if ethereum go pos, another big coin will emerge, probably decred, so a pump there is not so unexpected in the near future
the money will always move in way or another and diff will follow

airwalker2662

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Quote from: sp_ on March 14, 2016, 01:14:20 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

A 750Ti will use more power in the US? By what logic?

It's getting fed the same exact voltages in either case by the PSU. You may get *slightly* better efficiency overall from the PSU on 220 - 240V, but there's no reason to think stuff uses more power.

My ti cards have a tdp of 38w. Each card use 40watt mining lyra2v2 and around 35w in decred. I messure in the wall beforen I start the miner and after. (idle watt/ cpu/harddrive is excluded) my psus are all gold rated or bether. Why are you guys getting 66w ?

I can chime in on this, I am big on efficiency. Yes, the cards are using the same amount of power regardless of what the PSU input is. The difference is the conversion from the power supply from AC to DC. I live in the US and have recently converted my 3 rigs to 240v from 120. All of them on EVGA platinum plus power supplies which are dual voltage capable. I have a separate whole home energy monitor on a dedicated line to my rigs. I can tell you the difference is not extreme on a platinum power supply but it is slightly better. I reduced my total wattage down approx 3-4%. However, I can run all my rigs on one circuit now and keep them all in my garage to avoid heating the house as it's spring now

sp_

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Quote from: ?? on ??

A 750Ti will use more power in the US? By what logic?

It's getting fed the same exact voltages in either case by the PSU. You may get *slightly* better efficiency overall from the PSU on 220 - 240V, but there's no reason to think stuff uses more power.

My ti cards have a tdp of 38w. Each card use 40watt mining lyra2v2 and around 35w in decred. I messure in the wall beforen I start the miner and after. (idle watt/ cpu/harddrive is excluded) my psus are all gold rated or bether. Why are you guys getting 66w ?

sp_

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Quote from: Strannik-74 on March 13, 2016, 05:29:07 PM

Hello SP_, can not understand why the decredminer by the host card 6 starts trotling ?

Open gpuz and read the trottle reason. (pcap)

If it says VOP the card doesn't get enough power. Then you can try to increase the tdp of the card with the nvidia smi tool. Be careful though. Make sure than your mofherboard can handle it. Add powered risers or cards with a 6pin adapter. Most nonpowered ti's have a tdp of 38 watt. In Europe and asia the powergrid is 220v. In the usa only 120v. A 750ti will use more power in the us.

sp_

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Decred has some pretty damned good profitability - it may not exceed Eth for all GPUs, but it comes fairly close.

And the price is still low. Decred can rise 1000% just like etherum. Btc suite developers. Active github. Financial backing.. this coin has everything. Remember that banks have started to invest in the blockchain technology. They are not interested in bitcoin, they want to make their own.. good times for altcoin miners.

bensam1231

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Quote from: Vaccomondus on March 13, 2016, 12:52:16 PM

Quote from: bensam1231 on March 13, 2016, 12:42:51 PM

Quote from: Vaccomondus on March 13, 2016, 05:19:09 AM

ethereum is much more profitable to mine so this is pointless, i can mine ethereum and buy more decred than mining decred

And BTC used to be profitable for GPUs to mine. Things change. We're in a huge profit bubble right now and that can pop at any moment and then all hell is going to break loose when all that Eth hash hits all the other GPU coins.

it does not work like that, they dump? i'm fine, diff will adjust = same profit as before

Oh yeah? I don't think it works the way you're thinking. Why do you think profitability will be the same if Eth loses market value? No other coin is nearly as profitable and Eth has hand over fist more hash then any other coin. If it starts to equalize the other coins can't support the amount of hash.

As I mentioned before, GPU mining hash has grown about 30% in the last two weeks... Maybe closer to 50% as Eth has gained another 300Mh since then.

This is completely putting aside Eth can crash and it can go PoS, which means no more mining. They have talked about PoS already.

Topic: CCminer(SP-MOD) Modded NVIDIA Maxwell / Pascal kernels. - page 740. (Read 2347659 times)