Topic: Censorship resistance is underrated, move to bitcoin and #DeletePaypal - page 2. (Read 992 times)

but paypal are not fining people for things unrelated to paypal services

paypal are not the arbiters of truth of the world outside of paypal services/related companies

its policy was about if you scam people with horseshit, snake oil, false information.. EG false advertising goods on ebay(a paypal company) or you set up some scam where you ask users to pay you via paypal. then expect to be punished if that policy was in place
..
they are not arbiters of truth of the whole world outside of paypal services. dont be an idiot. you sound like a drugged up paranoid idiot

do your research. learn how the real world works
if you fear being charged a penalty by paypal for being a horseshit salesmen..
a. dont use paypal to sell your horseshit
b. set up your own payment system business that has no horseshit penalty clause
c. stop being a horseshit salesman

take this example.
you say alot of horseshit on this forum. (mostly just echo's of horseshit said by your pals without you even thinking or learning if its correct)
 but you do not sell that horseshit via paypal. but just said horseshit.  they wont penanlise you for saying crap here. because your not using their service to do it

however if you did try selling horseshit on this forum via paypal and their policy was in place. then expect to get penalised
LEARN THE DIFFERENCE!!!

sober up, get therapy for your paranoia, take off that tin foil hat.. and stop echo chamber repeating crap your buddies think.. then decide one day to actually learn how the real world works.

paypal is not censoring the world, its just defending its property from its users ABUSING paypal

lets take an example mentioned in this topic
the freedom convoy.

learn this.. and do your research outside and apart from your buddies opinions
the truckers of the convoy had a reason for their protest.*
however separate from this were a bunch of known scammy anti-gov conspiracy/lying idiots profiting from the event via some misinformation and some other scammy games.

*i personally would have loved to directly pay the truckers for their plight, to cover their costs of living expenses losses for doing their protest. but i refused to pay the promoters who had other idea's in mind

if you learn more about the promoters asking for donations. and you learn about their abuse and misinformation. you will learn why the donations were seized and accounts frozen.. big hint.. its not about the same reasons as the truck drivers plight

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now here is the big picture
read the topic title
if you dont like paypals policy. dont use paypal

instead be creative and create a service on bitcoin that offers the services paypal does. but without the paypal policies

learn how to get around the "currency" laws which CFTC/SEC and FATF impose.
be creative and set up something new.

remember paypal is a business not a currency
bitcoin is a currency not a business

if you want a paypal-esque service/business but without the paypal policy.. create it

You are the one introducing analogies which are completely missing the point.

Again, I'm not arguing that a private company cannot make rules about how you interact with that private company. Of course they can. What I'm saying is that PayPal appointing themselves the sole arbiters of truth, and fining users money that has nothing to do with PayPal is horseshit. If you have no problem with some faceless stranger seizing your assets because you said something they don't like, then again I don't really know what to say. I hear North Korea is nice this time of year? You're gonna go wild for CBDCs?

All your usual ranting about Lightning and mixers is entirely irrelevant and entirely off topic, so I will not derail this thread by debunking your nonsense for the n^th +1 time.

@o_e_l_e_o
you are missing the entire point
especially when you ignored the context to only knit pic a analogy about a baseball bat. rather then realise the point is about the property owner having the right to defend his property

the point is learn about things like property rights.
instead of crying about how businesses use their rights to set rules on their property which is their freedom. dont cry about their freedom. instead if you and your crew of idiots are so cry baby about how the fiat system know their rights about property they own.. learn the same rights and rules so that you can offer something that competes.

you and your crew have been for a while now trying to get people to use mixers without realising that mixers will cause more surveillance. you have been crying about how businesses have KYC/AML .. and then you go about and cry that bitcoin is broke to advertise another network that again actually gets people highlighted more..

so instead of saying that businesses and people should not have any property rights to defend their property.. instead wake up and realise that people and businesses should have rights to do as they please and set their own rules.. and then set up services that actually fulfill your wishes

property rights are a stronger defence for your "privacy" than the currency laws of finance. do not expect privacy under items that are deemed as currency. learn the difference between property and currency laws/policy/rights. learn how to defend yourself and learn how to set things up that actually do help people. rather then the games you have been playing

if there is a business that has terms you dont like.. find one that doest. if you cant find one. make one

if you just want to cry that bitcoin should be bastardised more to become more private by destroying its accounting system and provenance of all utxo's back to their mined coinbase. jsut so you can avoid businesses tracking you..  then you are not helping bitcoin have a "good money" system. you are destroying bitcoin whole purpose of good money. and not solving the big picture

if you want to limit bitcoin to not be fit for 1 billion unbaked 3rd world people by your silly "not for coffee" rhetoric you are nto helping bitcoin. your instead trying to limit and set sully political/social rules on bitcoin with your campaigns.
and if you are now crying about how people should not be able to control how their own property is managed. you again are destroying all the freedoms that you have pretended to want

so instead of thinking your crew should go on some silly campaign to get businesses to stop defending their own property
by trying to lobby that businesses and people should not have property rights

instead learn about and use those property rights and be creative to build something better

what you need to realise is a term called capitalism.. where big business know their property rights and common people dont. which then puts big business in more power

if you learn about property rights you can defend yourself better against the big businesses you hate. or create a second option which people can use instead of it

however
as soon as you start campaigning that people and businesses should not have the right to set terms on their own property. you are destroying freedoms

oh and no dont even bother trying to knit pick some snippet of an analogy to avoid the context to avoid understanding the context/point

..
here is the funny thing. by saying paypal should not be able to set membership rules of its property your are actually calling for to have regulators and law makers to jump in and prevent/destroy freedoms/property rights
have a long and hard think about that

the simple answer is not to lobby or cry about business terms of their property.. but instead realise they have those rights.. and simple learn to read their terms and if you dont like them. dont use that business

dont hate property rights. dont try crying that property rights are bad. instead learn about property rights and use them for your own benefit

emphasis
learn and use property rights to your own benefit

As much as I would prefer to only use bitcoin, I use a bank account and keep fiat in it. However, I have never and will never own a single dollar worth of a stablecoin. By holding a stablecoin, you are accepting all the risks of the underlying fiat (inflation, seizure, censorship, etc.), while also accepting all the additional risks of the stablecoin on top (hacks, scams, seizure, censorship, bankruptcy, etc.) You are trusting twice as many third parties for essentially no benefit.

Most countries don't allow you to murder someone for calling your wife a bad name, and if you think this is acceptable behavior, I don't really know what to say.

I have no need to set up a competitor to PayPal which is trustless and censorship resistant - we already have bitcoin. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop pointing out how terrible PayPal are.

I'm getting a little off-topic, but my point was that people don't get woke in red (Republican) states.

but thats the point though
its what you got to learn

its their property..

instead of crying that if you done something in your neighbours property which they decided was bad, where they decide a baseball bat is the solution to defend themselves.. dont cry about it.

yes you may think having your skull crushed is a bit harsh for just telling the property owner that ihis wife is a fat slut.. but his house rules are his right

realise and learn and research property rights. and then build your own house with your own rules(or lack of) where you can freely invite people into your property without fear of punishment
...
..
welcome to the invention called bitcoin.. people realised fiat services were bad because fiat businesses had their rules. its friggen wrote in the genesis block, one of the reasons bitcoin was invented for to offer a services that is different to the normal banking business rules..

bitcoin was invented to be a new system without a property owner of the network(until core turned up mandating changes) where the rules were simple and not requiring ID/location data. whereby people could transact between each other without worries.

yes businesses started to join at the edges of the network. including withing the developer community.. but you are not forced to use those businesses. (which is why altcoins/subnets started popping up)
but speaking just about the financial businesses, if you dont like those businesses rules for their property. dont use them. instead learn about property rights and create your own services that offer something different

this community doesnt need to have idiot crybabies crying about the businesses around bitcoin that have their own rules which is their right. instead the community needs creative people to create completely new services that dont have those rules

so instead of crying about how businesses property rights might harm your use of their business.. think about setting up your own services that do not harm you or your users

you can learn alot if you do research
EG do you know why scammers ask victims to buy giftcards like itunes vouchers and facebook credits.. its because those credits are not "currency" (something bitcoin lost when it became a currency in ~2014

so make a service that accepts 'tokens'/credits where you refuse to consider them as currency and instead define/describe them as asset property or credits that are not deemed as currency. and then use that to convert over. and you can skip the certain regulations
also things like currency swap services that are described as privacy enhancing... learn to create not currency services. but property services. where its not advertised as privacy enhancing. but instead by default just doesnt log personal details

do research and learn stuff
eg how do you think uber got around the taxicab licencing regulations
be creative and research stuff

oh and as for your favoured alt network.. yes it has flaws and bugs, but its already fallen into the currency regulations due to lack of many things.. so just call it a failed experiment.
start afresh with a new network hybrid with a new mechanism and without all the bugs and flaws. define it differently.. then with certain research you might finally have the niche service network that could actually have utility for your wishes

go discuss it with your chums, and think about solutions not just keep playing the same victim card while trying to promote something thats broke before it even got popular or cry about popular things that are limiting your use of due to rules imposed on it

Paypal with the free will chargeback was the reason they ended up getting worse and worse. I understand that it was there to prevent scam, and it makes sense if there is a proof as well. But with the current way it is, there was a good possibility that people would use it for scam instead, they would be able to buy something and then we would be seeing them do a chargeback, and that would result with a horrible loss for the seller.

Before chargeback it was scammers posing as sellers, after chargeback it was scammers posing as buyers but it’s still bad. I had so many friends who sold stuff, and got chargeback, and it was harder to recover from there and even caused the bankruptcy of some startups.

Yes, there is. Well, first of all, besides this meager interest rate the banks nowadays offer, Tether doesn't have a banking license, because it isn't a bank (or it isn't run as a bank, anyway). That being said, holding your money in Tether means you trust some unlicensed company to handle the credit of billions of dollars, without bankruptcy and liquidity problems. On the other hand of course, you can transfer USDT theoretically anonymously, in comparison with the bank, wherein every transaction is identified.

Crypto is not decentralized, that is a misconception, there are quite a lot of centralized cryptocurrencies that are just like the traditional system, with a central body controlling the affairs of the coin, and you know what happens when a user of that coin does something that they do not like: censorship, confiscation, blacklisting, coin freeze, and so many more; it is Bitcoin that is decentralized and allows you complete control and freedom of your money.
If they want to avoid volatility for inflation, then maybe they should prolly stick with traditional fiat system rather than stablecoins, both are centralized and do not give you control of your funds. There is no difference between hodling your money in your bank account or in stablecoins.

Lol. PayPal is a shitcoin.

Bad habit, I want to believe. Cryptocurrencies are newborn money in comparison with the traditional monetary system, that is alive for over a century. Plus, most cryptocurrencies are scams, and might disincentivize vendors from adoption of bitcoin (as it's seen as a "common crypto"). Journalists do some work here.

How's TerraUSD doing? 

Transaction costs might be near zero with "stablecoins", but there are other, inherited risks. But, to return on-topic: censorship resistance is not an inherited benefit. There's no doubt that the single entity that controls the currency (e.g., Tether) won't start blacklisting certain addresses at some point. In fact, it has happened in the past: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tether-blacklisted-39-ethereum-addresses-144546028.html

Well, that is something I don't understand. Why do people continue using Paypal services paying absurd fees and being bullied while they could simply adopt crypto which is decentralized and let us have total control over our money and transactions?

That sounds like sadomasochism to me.

And even if customers justify they want to avoid the volatility of crypto market's currencies, they could use stablecoins in this case.

He's a sneaky guy:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-03/ray-dalio-no-longer-thinks-cash-is-trash

Sell your BTC for cheap, he wants moar.

This minute PP is down 6.3% and falling as expected.

A week or so ago Ray Dalio who I respect very much came out with PP as a good growth opportunity.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/12-best-growth-stocks-buy-191841097.html

Hmmm..  Tank the stock out, buy in and when the sheep in mass forget and use PP because of limited options the stock goes up...

Goes against my fiber, but hey. maybe make some money.

No, it hasn't. Private companies don't act in a paternalistic manner to protect their users from misinformation with minimum to zero protection demand, last time I checked. What users do with their life, is their business. Not PayPal's. Paypal's business is to work as an online payment system, and serve transactions between vendors and customers. That's all. It's not a law instrument responsible for the society's welfare, and neither users' mom and dad.

What do you mean?

Not entirely true. The vaccine is manufactured exclusively in Texas. 

There is still something called principles and morals that goes beyond what some army of state servants are spamming into a book, for a lot of people. The judicial system became to justice, what fiat became to money. Nothing of what youre saying turns wrong into right, and no amount of missing the point examples will change that.

Comparing rape, vandalism and trespassing with your payment provider opening up the possibility to surveil/sanction/cancel their whole userbase at their own discretion, based on as vague as possible walls of user agreements that can change every 2 seconds and for things that are possibly completely unrelated to the service. Completely missing the point.

They cant. Many policies are void if they violate certain rules, like unreasonably disadvantaging a contracting party. But this will also vary by jurisdiction or court. Regular people just dont have the time to sue any service theyre using or even reading that bs.

No one demanded this.

Thanks for the interesting information.

We should, but its hard to create services that protect common sense rights in a growingly surveillance-mandating, anti-freedom and pro-censorship culture and jurisdiction. There isnt a need for decentralization for no reason.

I'm not arguing that what they are proposing is illegal, just that it's complete horseshit. If their terms say they can put you in debt if you say something they don't like, and you continue to use their service, then sure, you can't act surprised when that's what happens. Doesn't mean it is any less horseshit that a private company are now policing what you say based on their own arbitrary decisions with zero oversight and will take your money away if you step out of line.

This is the future of fiat and CBDCs. It is terrifying. The American Social Credit System is in the works. Mass surveillance becomes a whole lot more problematic when private companies or governments can just take away your money if you commit thoughtcrime. There will never be a greater need for bitcoin.

That's why I don't trust him. He allowed Twitter to become a woke hivemind.

His transformation from 2010 to 2020 is amazing (in a bad way).

Why does everyone in Commiefornia catch the woke virus?

And there's no "vaccine" apparently...

It's going to be real interesting to watch PP stock price this week.

Jack Dorsey and Block are probably the closest ones to strike PP. He still leans in to the left/woke crowd tho.

Jack Mallers, maybe if he can get some big HP behind him. He could be a disruptor in the field.

Poor Ebay, they pretty much run on PP.