Topic: Censorship resistance is underrated, move to bitcoin and #DeletePaypal - page 3. (Read 984 times)

heres the think though.. they can

by linking your bank account you are giving them permission to pull funds from your account.

you have to check their terms for what they deem as reasons they will pull funds from your account

EG some companies say they want to charge you a monthly fee or a retainer amount or a upfront reserve. you ned to read the terms for what they say they will do if you use their service

lets give you some other real life examples
heck even just parking your car on a rectangle space of tarmac for longer than the land owner allows, gets your vehicle towed away and debt collectors chasing you. and thats without even having to sign up to any membership. thats just being on someones property means you agree to their terms of use
much like many websites 'by continuing to visit this site you agree with its cookie policy and the sites terms and conditions'
.you see facebook, microsoft outlook, and paypal update there terms, they dont even have to get you to 'accept' them no more, they simply state by continuing to use their service you are agreeing to the updated terms. meaning they dont even have to get you to read and accept you have read the updated terms.

this is why whenever using any service, read the terms and if you dont like it, dont use the service.

heck you even see utility companies. like cell phone deals that set you up with a contract. which meant to be a fixed rate zero change policy for the contract period, now can change their rates/policies mid contract where they dont even have to get you to sign up again. they can just start taking more money out of your account or any amount they say the bill is owed.

But in this case, it isn't their property. PayPal are absolutely within their rights to shut down your account if you said something they don't like. That's how centralized businesses work. Fine. What they aren't within their rights to do is pull $2,500 from a completely separate bank account or send debt collectors after you because you said something they don't like. That is absolutely not their property.

This policy was no mistake or accident. This is the future direction PayPal are heading in. They may have put it on hold for now, but you can guarantee they will reintroduce it again at some point, once the outrage has passed.

Which they've already been doing (and over-zealously, it seems, given how many innocent users have lost funds on PayPal). This new policy isn't about that - it's about censorship and control.

---

I'm actually feeling positive about this new policy from PayPal. It doesn't affect me in the slightest since I have never had a PayPal account, and the more people whom fiat institutes start arbitrarily censoring, fining, and preventing access to their own money, then the more people who will start looking for a trustless, censorship resistant alternative.

Bitcoin fixes this.

Thanks for this, Paypal seems to be more stricter and don't care anything with freedom to speak.

For freelancers who need to receipt worldwide online payment, I think it's better to choose the other alternative e.g. World Pay, Sage Pay, Stripe etc since most people doesn't comfortable to pay via Bitcoin. Even though sooner or later those online payment might tightening their rules, but there's not many choice against this matter.

I think the problem in this thread isn't about Paypal protecting itself or its users from financial crimes, i mean, every user on this forum will be happy if proven criminals have their funds confiscated and if they are censored by Paypal, but most of the problem here is some of the reasons as to why a Paypal user can get censored and their funds confiscated, some of which are really subjective reasons, like misinformation, unfit for publication, or harmful, etc, some of these things are subjective and for example what some of their users might consider good information, might be misinformation in Paypal's views, and they could get punished for it, even through their linked bank accounts. (Well that's before they changed their minds on this unnecessary terms of service anyway).
That is the responsibility people owe to their funds when they are users in the Bitcoin network.

I do like centralization and the misuse of that power, but if the correct procedures were followed and the funds "locked" until the criminal actions were proven, then I will welcome actions to prevent scams and financial crimes. I know this is open for exploitation and misuse, but large companies like PayPal has an obligation to protect their users from financial crimes.

The thing about Bitcoin is this.... once you press the enter key to transfer the funds, it is gone... you cannot reverse that transaction...and this is advantageous for companies and individuals, where people buy something and then reverse the transaction... but on the other hand... if the receiver is a scammer and you want to reverse the transaction.... then that is impossible. 

I'm afraid Paypal isn't becoming obsolete, like you say, maybe for you because you prolly no longer use it, but mind you that Paypal has over 400 million users and still counting, thus it is pretty far from being obsolete. Bitcoin is perfect as a way to send and receive funds without censorship, that's if the user makes use of non-custodial wallets, but Bitcoin imo is still a rather young network and cannot make Paypal obsolete just yet. Even if people ditch Paypal for one obscene reason or the other, only a few of them will join the Bitcoin network as an alternative, they'd rather choose other 'popular' options to send and receive funds.

Having said that, Bitcoin's adoption will continually grow and users who prefer censorship resistant options will join the Bitcoin network, but i am afraid that users who worry about them being censored are fewer than those that do not.

Paypal was going down the shithole years ago. Even the fact that they "kinda" adopted Bitcoin won't change their true nature.
Unfortunately most of the Paypal customers don't care about there Terms of Service, because:
1.Paypal is simply too user-friendly and convenient, if you are a buyer.
2.The online sellers use Paypal only because millions of buyers use it as well.
This company is in the "too big to fail" category despite their transaction fees going up and their service getting worse every year.
The Paypal alternatives like Skrill, Zelle, Cashapp and the rest of the payment apps will turn into Paypal clones sooner or later.
When you use such payment service and you fund your account, your money becomes their money and you have to abide by the their rules.
Otherwise they will simply take away the money that you gave them.

This is another very good example of how many organizations have been scared shitless about bitcoin ever since it was created. Bitcoin simply cuts off their hand that was in other people's pockets. No wonder they have been spreading so much FUD and spending so much money trying to prevent bitcoin adoption from growing and overtaking their corrupt cartels.

I think PayPal isn't doing it at their own will. Because such kind of confistication activities can seriously harm the reputation of PayPal as a business. It surely can bring in negative press releases against them which can hurt them as a business.

I believe they are being pressurized by some regulatory bodies where they are headquartered. Because as a privately held company, they can't decide such things and cancel your account at their will. This is my personal take on it.

Just make sure to always immediately withdraw your PayPal funds to your bank account every few days. Even before this new(but seemingly revoked) rule, PayPal locking up funds and taking people's money isn't anything new — and I'm saying this as someone who lost approximately $2000 to PayPal as well; and I didn't even scam anyone.

I am glad they have removed that clause because of the negative response from people and the controversy generated. Many people believe that censorship is acceptable nowadays, but that a private company could act in that way has a component of arbitrariness that is closer to feudalism than to an advanced society.

Who decides what is correct information? If we talk about things like that the earth is round we will enter into a consensus, and even so, there are those who deny it and say that it is flat, but when we enter into topics that have an ideological component we enter into dangerous terrain.

For example. When CBDCs are soon to be implemented, expressing the opinion that Bitcoin is more reliable and more secure than them could be considered misinformation. And so we could find a lot of examples.

I used paypal a bit in the past and stopped using it by deleting the account, because of some charges they wanted to put if I remember correctly. Now I have them sending me emails saying they will give me some free pennies if I come back. Let them sit tight.

For me Paypal has always been a very treacherous company which charge abusive fees while not being user friendly, especially for micro earners who want to work online on multiple platforms.

These news come only to corroborate with my initial thoughts. I'm just thankful we have cryptocurrency and more exactly bitcoin nowadays, so Paypal has become obsolete since then, at least in my case.

And I believe it is just a matter of time until they close the doors or are bought by a rising company of the same niche.

but come on !!! you must know by now
fiat is not users product but the property of government. they make it they own it they set the rules for who gets to use it for whatever reason

paypal services/accounts/utility like all businesses belongs to paypal. they set the rules because its their property

if someone walked into your house(property) and said they were your guest, and they suddenly started urinating on your sofa and then raping your spouse.. (they may have your warped mindset that you if you were a guest would think that the property owner should be hospitable to its guests and let them have the right to do as they please.)
but the property owner is more likely to get a baseball bat and swing it at your head if you dont leave their property

its not 'suddenly taking the law into their own hands'. its their property  right thats ben around for hundreds of years to set terms and conditions of utility of their guests using their property

if you want to destroy property rights that you are actually in the end harming your own rights about your own property.. so stop crying about services rights to protect what is theirs.

businesses can set any policy they like.. its their property
if you dont like their terms.. dont use them. its simple

you need to start getting used to reading walls of texts to read the terms and conditions. and be prepared to realise that many businesses will have terms that wont meet your expectations. and s you then need to learn to stop using services

no business is expected to by default to let its customers do absolutely anything they like. so stop being an idiot crying that businesses do not let you do your criminal activity without monitoring you

if you want to do criminal activity without monitoring.. then go get your buddy group together and go make a services that has no terms of use
stop crying about how many businesses are not receptive to criminals

oh and here is the funny.. i actually prefer to use alipay (alixpress/alibaba) which is chinese far more then paypal. i have not used paypal in possibly 12 years

but the point is instead of crying about how businesses are harming your immoral/unethical methods of profit.. go make a service that fits your need

Too bad I still need to use Paypal because this is how I get paid for some of my offshore clients. Tried to pitch in an idea that I'm open in receiving my pay in bitcoin or any other altcoins out there but they don't seem too comfortable to handle such transactions. Imagine I just posted something against Paypal out of frustration but not out of spite, and then a $2500 deduction on my account would be posted? This is nuts. This is what happens when an organization is given a lot of power on their hands, they act like they are the law and that everyone is on their payroll.

Wise is a decent alternative, but I'm not sure if it's any better than what Paypal is right now.

Yes. It's true. A private company suddenly decides to take the law in hands, and act as a social penalty mechanism. This can turn into so much worse shit that I don't want to think about. There's no person I know who doesn't have a paypal account. I do have too, but with no linked credit card. It can't overcharge if I use debit.

It's a glimpse from the future, CBDC. 

It'd be shame if he was worthy of respect. He's lost me since Dogecoin.

"If you're not woke/SJW-friendly, you will get a fine from the thought police."

Okay PayPal!

ps: Shame this service was founded by Elon Musk... see how fast things can change in just 2 decades?

The existence of an alternate needs to be spread around. This can shift existing users of PayPal towards bitcoin. In PayPal users have their bank accounts connected to PayPal. The fund received in any currency gets withdrawn to the respective bank account linked. Same as this bitcoin can be used without much complications. For now the market volatility, trust and the awareness keeps bitcoin away from PayPal users who are much oriented on business purposes. These corporate networks make use of it and overruling its userbase.

This is wild. I took a good look through their User Agreement here: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full. I've pulled out all the relevant parts below:


So if PayPal decide you've said something they don't like, they'll charge $2,500 from your PayPal account. If they can't do that, they'll pull $2,500 from any linked banked account or credit card. If they can't do that, they'll send debt collectors after you.

What about this post? This post is harmful to PayPal. Would they charge me $2,500 for it if I had a PayPal account? Who knows. It's within their terms to do so if they wanted, and it's at their sole discretion.

And perhaps because they don't know there's an alternative payment network that cuts off intermediaries, treats everyone objectively, and makes everyone responsible for their own money? Nobody is forcing you to have a bank account, but if you don't know there are other options to send money via the Internet, you'll be left over with 2 options. Option A; to not send money via the Internet, but with physical cash. Option B; to use the bank, in spite of the downsides.

There's no justification to the staying of the current feudalistic monetary system other than inadequate education.

Currently the only alternative to Paypal is directly using a credit or debit card. Bitcoin isn't exactly at the stage required to subvert Paypal, especially when you still need to buy gift cards or debit cards for Bitcoin to purchase most fiat stuff.