Centralization Will Bring Down Bitcoin - page 3.

Operatr

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Quote from: SGExodus on May 17, 2013, 04:49:22 AM

Exchanges are already decentralized.

They are also highly profitable businesses, and you can be sure more investor will want to setup exchanges to serve their local community.

However, it will take time for new exchanges to build up your reputation and to work with their respective local authority for the right operating license.

These will naturally replace the needs for cross boarder transaction with Mtgox.

They are anything but decentralized, therein lies the problem. MTGox is only a problem because it was one first exchanges, naturally without a lot of other options they carried 80% of trade, which makes it dangerous to the market as a whole. This is changing with more exchanges starting to come online.

We need a true p2p exchange platform to truly decentralize it. Though Gox and others are still necessary as intermediaries from coin to fiat currency.

lophie

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Quote from: SGExodus on May 17, 2013, 04:49:22 AM

Exchanges are already decentralized.

They are also highly profitable businesses, and you can be sure more investor will want to setup exchanges to serve their local community.

However, it will take time for new exchanges to build up your reputation and to work with their respective local authority for the right operating license.

These will naturally replace the needs for cross boarder transaction with Mtgox.

No they are not decentralised. The count is a misconception of decentralization. Unless it is a pseudo P2P network.

SGExodus

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Exchanges are already decentralized.

They are also highly profitable businesses, and you can be sure more investor will want to setup exchanges to serve their local community.

However, it will take time for new exchanges to build up their reputation and to work with their respective local authority for the right operating license.

These will naturally replace the needs for cross boarder transaction with Mtgox.

ShadowOfHarbringer

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Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 17, 2013, 04:12:00 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 16, 2013, 07:56:09 PM

I think you need to look into Ripple.

Ripple is centralized.

Ripple is centralized AND closed source.

Out of the frying pan into the fire, yeah.

lophie

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What I don't understand is why no one is trying to create Satoshi's suggestion regarding this matter...... sigh... maybe one day after I finish the projects at hand.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 16, 2013, 07:56:09 PM

I think you need to look into Ripple.

Ripple is centralized.

lexxus

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Quote from: BitPirate on May 17, 2013, 04:00:13 AM

This would also be overtly illegal, whereas Bitcoin itself is not.

Unfortunately today illegal = something that your goverment doesn't like. I'm sure that if you really go through formal procedure, bitcoin is already illegal in most of the countries.

BitPirate

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If it was easy and cheap to "shuttle money between accounts" -- free and cross-border -- as you suggest, we wouldn't need bitcoin.

This would also be overtly illegal, whereas Bitcoin itself is not.

BlueNote

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It's not difficult to picture a P2P system whereby people trade cryptographically secured USD and other fiat tokens and then help each other cash out when necessary by going through personal bank accounts. You just need a strong web of trust and a mechanism to hold people accountable - which is much easier said than done, of course. But still, it's simple enough to picture.

P2P is quite an intoxicating concept, isn't it?

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: viboracecata on May 16, 2013, 11:14:47 PM

If no centralization like Mt Gox, How can we know what our bitcoins can buy?

We can just ask the speculators/day traders to give us a number. They're setting the price.

viboracecata

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If no centralization like Mt Gox, How can we know what our bitcoins can buy?

Chaoskampf

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 16, 2013, 08:59:26 PM

Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 16, 2013, 08:34:54 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 16, 2013, 08:14:59 PM

Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 16, 2013, 08:02:54 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 16, 2013, 07:56:09 PM

I think you need to look into Ripple.

Ripple ≠ This

I guess I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish with all the bank accounts. Wouldn't that the govt more to seize?

Finding and compromising 1 bank account is one thing (think Dwolla). Doing the same for 10, is a whole different story. Now imagine 10,000.

Yeah, I guess so. In the end, with all the required effort to coordinate bank ledgers it might be easier and quicker to just overthrow the government and start a new country. LOL

this is what computers are for....

FreddyFender

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Shamantastic!

Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 16, 2013, 08:53:12 PM

The whole point is that the people and institutions which derive their power from Fiat see Bitcoin as a threat to their order. The recent Homeland Security action is a testament to this. To think that Bitcoin can be a "legitimate" currency alongside the US Dollar is ignoring the reality of the situation. Bitcoin is an upfront assault on the legitimacy of the international Fiat system. Services like Ripple are destined to go the way of any service which proposes to establish Bitcoin functionally within the existing Fiat frameworks. Bitcoin is not meant to live alongside Fiat. It is meant to kill it. With extreme prejudice.

The actual mechanism may be something akin to extreme prejudice or simple derision of what is currently in place (authoritarian dictate). The open area of approach is from an opposite direction that provides equal pressure on financing. Voting mechanisms are ancient and fragile to improvement; improved WoT system that eventually integrates a financial component. If everyone is on board or pushing for integration, the WoT has the front keys and no subterfuge is required. Just time and a well thought out implementation of a voting system will provide answers.
Sometimes kicking in the front door or sneaking in the back door is pointless. Just buy the place and move right in.

QuantPlus

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Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 16, 2013, 08:53:12 PM

The whole point is that the people and institutions which derive their power from Fiat see Bitcoin as a threat to their order. The recent Homeland Security action is a testament to this. To think that Bitcoin can be a "legitimate" currency alongside the US Dollar is ignoring the reality of the situation. Bitcoin is an upfront assault on the legitimacy of the international Fiat system. Services like Ripple are destined to go the way of any service which proposes to establish Bitcoin functionally within the existing Fiat frameworks. Bitcoin is not meant to live alongside Fiat. It is meant to kill it. With extreme prejudice.

You've just made about 1,000 points in 5 paragraphs...
The last being an overthrow of the US Government...
You forgot about Bitcoin Island and sex slaves for everyone.

The general idea for decentralized fiat transfer...
Is actually workable if implemented properly...
But this discussion is crazy unfocused and a dead end.

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 16, 2013, 08:34:54 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 16, 2013, 08:14:59 PM

Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 16, 2013, 08:02:54 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 16, 2013, 07:56:09 PM

I think you need to look into Ripple.

Ripple ≠ This

I guess I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish with all the bank accounts. Wouldn't that the govt more to seize?

Finding and compromising 1 bank account is one thing (think Dwolla). Doing the same for 10, is a whole different story. Now imagine 10,000.

Yeah, I guess so. In the end, with all the required effort to coordinate bank ledgers it might be easier and quicker to just overthrow the government and start a new country. LOL

Chaoskampf

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order in numbers

The whole point is that the people and institutions which derive their power from Fiat see Bitcoin as a threat to their order. The recent Homeland Security action is a testament to this. To think that Bitcoin can be a "legitimate" currency alongside the US Dollar is ignoring the reality of the situation. Bitcoin is an upfront assault on the legitimacy of the international Fiat system. Services like Ripple are destined to go the way of any service which proposes to establish Bitcoin functionally within the existing Fiat frameworks. Bitcoin is not meant to live alongside Fiat. It is meant to kill it. With extreme prejudice.

ECore

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The whole point is to develop bitcoin as its own currency and payment system combined. When this is accomplished, then transferring into different currencies becomes less of a problem, because there is no need to.

Or you could do something such as this if you need bitcoin:

Buy something with cash, sell it for bitcoin, buy a product or service with bitcoin.

Or if you want to cash out, just buy gold or silver (or anything else of value that you could sell for cash) since there are no regulations.

When you aren't trying to use it as a commodity or stock, then solutions are easier to see.

Chaoskampf

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order in numbers