Centralized and kyc platforms can pose risks in the future - page 2.

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Quote from: Fortify on May 23, 2021, 03:48:04 PM

I'm not totally familiar but does the Trezor require a further password to access - otherwise it is useless?

A Trezor device in the hands of a knowledgeable attacker can have the seed phrase extracted and unencrypted and therefore all your coins stolen. You need to use an additional complex passphrase or the SD card encryption (with the SD card not in the hands of the attacker) to mitigate this.

Quote from: Fortify on May 23, 2021, 03:48:04 PM

Can Bitcoins stored on a Trezor be restored without access to the original device?

Coins are never stored on a hardware wallet, but the private keys on the hardware wallet can be restored via the seed phrase.

Quote from: Fortify on May 23, 2021, 03:48:04 PM

More KYC can actually be useful for people who are interested in the long term future of Bitcoin, because knowing your customers is the only way to track down criminals who like to move around in the shadows.

There is very little evidence that KYC aids in tracking down criminals. Criminals in general aren't stupid enough to cash out stolen bitcoin via an account which has all their personal information linked to it.

Quote from: Fortify on May 23, 2021, 03:48:04 PM

The cleaner bitcoin is presented, the more it will be trusted by the average person.

You don't need to trust bitcoin, and bitcoin doesn't need to be trusted. That's the whole point.

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 23, 2021, 04:35:35 PM

exchanges could be selling our information I mean we never know but it's possible.

Go and read the small print of any major exchange and you will find that they are regularly selling and sharing your data with a huge variety of third parties. Some exchange, such as Coinbase, have even admitted in interviews that they do this - https://youtu.be/ZCD_yDHenis?t=119

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 23, 2021, 04:35:35 PM

I guess you could lessen that if you did a KYC in a top exchange or website since they might have the best security in their website compared to others.

Pretty much every exchange sends your KYC data to a variety of third parties to be processed, verified, and stored, and you have absolutely no idea how good or bad their security is. That's why even the biggest exchanges like Binance have had their KYC databases hacked and leaked.

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It is not advisable I guess to do KYC since cryptocurrency is not regulated or something, everything could always mess up in the future and the worst thing is we lost everything because of it.

But most of the exchanges are centralized and probably would require you to do a KYC in the long run, there are always since that if you do the KYC because there are a lot of scams everywhere, your data probably could be used in illegal transactions, exchanges could be selling our information I mean we never know but it's possible. Our data could leak if there is some hacking happened also.

I guess you could lessen that if you did a KYC in a top exchange or website since they might have the best security in their website compared to others. And since they are big already it lessens the chance of getting scams in fake or phishing exchanges online because that could always be a possibility most of the time.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on May 04, 2021, 01:59:36 PM

I believe this is not only happening in my country but in all other countries, we need to be very careful before we will become criminal's targets. There are many ways criminals are thinking about ways they want to steal from us, physical harm can still involved. There was a case I read recently about someone saying he had trezor with him in his home when theives came but did not touch the trezor after stealing other valuable things.

Some thieves are unable to make use of people's Bank ATM cards because they are afraid of the account they will send the money to not to be traced, that is why some will have to go to ATM with the cards to withdraw some money, but there are daily limit that someone can withdraw, this can safe the victim not to lose money much.

Jumping from burglars to KYC is quite a wide topic for discussion. Maybe more knowledgeable thieves would take any USB looking device with them, I'm not totally familiar but does the Trezor require a further password to access - otherwise it is useless? Can Bitcoins stored on a Trezor be restored without access to the original device? If you think of exchanges like a bank versus storing some money in your home - it makes sense that bank security will be much greater, so should be used to store large amounts, should the same be true of Bitcoin? More KYC can actually be useful for people who are interested in the long term future of Bitcoin, because knowing your customers is the only way to track down criminals who like to move around in the shadows. Anyone who transacts with Bitcoin in most developed countries should not be required to announce their current ownership but it would be sensible to exchanges to monitor future transactions for fraud. The cleaner bitcoin is presented, the more it will be trusted by the average person.

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on May 23, 2021, 05:32:02 AM

Your not allowed to use p2p if not undergone the KYC I guess.

Exactly. One of the biggest advantages of peer to peer trading is that you can protect your privacy, don't have to risk disaster by giving away your personal documents and information, don't have a centralized exchange spying on you, etc. So why do people give up all these advantages by completing KYC anyway? Why not use an actually private platform such as Bisq or LocalCryptos?

Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on May 23, 2021, 05:32:02 AM

I'm sure many will agree binance p2p is great for those who uses it.

I'm sure it is, but if everyone who used Binance P2P swapped to a decentralized peer to peer exchange, then you would all have the same volume but with none of the privacy invasion, none of the risk to your information, and none of the risk to your custodial coins.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 23, 2021, 05:19:46 AM

If you are going to give up your security and privacy anyway by using a centralized platform such as Binance, then peer to peer brings very little benefit, so why not just use Binance's standard exchange?

You mean standard exchange? Your not allowed to use p2p if not undergone the KYC I guess. Also, if I used the standard, how could I put it on bank with such ease since there is no fiat trading directly of my currency there? Needed to find someone first to right? To do peer to peer. What I after is the convenience, I'm sure many will agree binance p2p is great for those who uses it.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 23, 2021, 05:19:46 AM

It's not really the case of a DEX supporting bank transfers, but rather the individual traders on that DEX. I predominantly use Bisq.

So Ive still need to interact with those via peer to peer. In short no, place to do what Binance offer, that still saves the privacy. Anyway we have our own choice here. If I gonna make a poll how many uses Binance p2p here.

I'm sure 90% here favors for that. (just estimation)

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on May 22, 2021, 08:36:03 PM

example in our country you can easily get the payment to your bank account and or remmitance supported in our country.

In your country, is it easier to receive a bank transfer from another person peer to peer than it is to process a bank transfer withdrawal from Binance's standard exchange?

Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on May 22, 2021, 08:36:03 PM

Let say, I will only use peer to peer, its possible but it's gonna be hassle when no one can transact to you at the time you needed it.

That's kind of my point. Peer to peer has some obvious down sides, the main one being speed, but some people (myself included) accept these down sides for the considerable upsides of better security and better privacy than using a centralized exchange. If you are going to give up your security and privacy anyway by using a centralized platform such as Binance, then peer to peer brings very little benefit, so why not just use Binance's standard exchange?

Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on May 22, 2021, 08:36:03 PM

Is there a dex that supported an easy money to my bank account? If you can give me I'll use it instead.

It's not really the case of a DEX supporting bank transfers, but rather the individual traders on that DEX. I predominantly use Bisq.

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Quote from: Stanlo on May 05, 2021, 07:17:53 AM

Quote from: Synerggy on May 05, 2021, 02:27:15 AM

Ok, I have been using binance right from the start when it comes to Fiat withdrawal and KYC verification is been verified, are you saying criminals can track my address all the way from binance down to Africa?

Yes. Binance have previously been hacked for KYC information. If you were one of the unlucky ones, then not only has your real name and address been linked to the fact you own a verified Binance account and therefore you own crypto and are a prime target for muggers, but also your personal documents are probably now being sold on the dark web and you could end up with your identity being stolen.

KYC is always a risk.

Many people keeps talking about the risks involved with KYC but it's the only way to swap your crypto to Fiat, it's not as if Fiat is eradicated already and all store and markets in the world are using crypto as means of exchanges, you can't do with Fiat when it comes to daily needs and life responsibility
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If the hacker got our info, then there could be the possibility of this going to happen. When they have the intention of getting some money from the easy target, they could do it, especially if you live in a vulnerable spot. I could be a target.

Although I really don't have a lot of coins, it's more alarming because if they can't get the coins they expect from me, they might sodomize my ass.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 22, 2021, 03:01:07 AM

I don't understand what appeals to people about Binance P2P at all. It is all the worst bits of peer to peer trading, in that it isn't as fast as a centralized exchange, combined with all the worst bits of a centralized exchange, in that you have to complete KYC, give up custody of your coins, give up your security, and give up your privacy. If you are happy sacrificing all that, then why not just use a centralized exchange?

Binance is a centralized exchange, its p2p is just another product or feature. For convenience isnt bad for us cause example in our country you can easily get the payment to your bank account and or remmitance supported in our country. Let say, I will only use peer to peer, its possible but it's gonna be hassle when no one can transact to you at the time you needed it.

Perhaps you have plenty of time to do actual peer to peer. Is there a dex that supported an easy money to my bank account? If you can give me I'll use it instead.

Lots of user here belongs to our country are probably all using that. I'm sure of it more than 90% and above.

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on May 05, 2021, 08:33:15 AM

I wanted to try peer to peer but of course Binance p2p is way convenient if you are in need of cash.

I don't understand what appeals to people about Binance P2P at all. It is all the worst bits of peer to peer trading, in that it isn't as fast as a centralized exchange, combined with all the worst bits of a centralized exchange, in that you have to complete KYC, give up custody of your coins, give up your security, and give up your privacy. If you are happy sacrificing all that, then why not just use a centralized exchange?

Quote from: CryptocurencyKing on May 21, 2021, 11:51:40 PM

Where the freewill to transact as you wish could be harmful in the sense that, should a scammer or hacker with the know how get your privacy details and with the fact that, there is no daily limitation to how much that can be transfered within the day, with one swipe, one can be left with nothing.

Nobody should be relying on that as protection for their coins. Your accounts should be secured with long, random, and unique passwords, and should all have 2FA enabled, preferably from a hardware key but at a minimum from a 2FA app on a separate device and never from email or SMS. Even better, none of your coins should be stored long term on an exchange, service, or web wallet, but rather withdrawn to your own wallet for safe keeping.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on May 04, 2021, 01:59:36 PM

but there are daily limit that someone can withdraw, this can safe the victim not to lose money much.

But we are in the time of cryptocurrencies, no daily limit, we can withdraw as possible as we can as all can be withdrawn. We need to be careful with the information we are having online, be careful of exchanges that are custodial, even we must be careful of the so called information require while buying hardware wallets, find ways not to give right information that can make criminals trace your home or work place.

So you can see at times that the solution can also pose some sort of a problem! Where the freewill to transact as you wish could be harmful in the sense that, should a scammer or hacker with the know how get your privacy details and with the fact that, there is no daily limitation to how much that can be transfered within the day, with one swipe, one can be left with nothing. Too bad but, its actually one of the distinguishing factor between traditional banking system and the cryptocurrency blockchain system.

On the internet, no where could be entirely safe. The know how might not have been discovered yet but in time, it will. Thats why there is a need for regular checks by platform prgrammers, updates on prevailing circumstances and for us to be mindful of what details we put out on the web.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 05, 2021, 07:59:56 AM

Any data to back up that statement? Or is that just a guess? Just because someone cares about their privacy does not mean they are doing anything illegal.

Yes but I am looking for it. There is a local user on our boards posted his experience with it. His bank account got locked cause he got a transaction with someone who has involved on malicious activity so he got investigated too. That's what I remember, I just forget this user name and the thread in particular.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 05, 2021, 07:59:56 AM

If this is a concern of yours, then either only trade with people who have lots of positive feedback, or only trade in cash or similar and avoid direct bank transfers.

Yeah that's what I do or at least limiting my transaction to those who are verified and somehow trusted by most. I wanted to try peer to peer but of course Binance p2p is way convenient if you are in need of cash.

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on May 05, 2021, 07:43:11 AM

But what is realistic happening is the money on p2p exchange used has been involved in money laundering.

Any data to back up that statement? Or is that just a guess? Just because someone cares about their privacy does not mean they are doing anything illegal.

Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on May 05, 2021, 07:43:11 AM

Now you are the one receiving the money and of course you'll end up being investigated and possible locked of your bank account if the money paid or used was proven came from scam or malicious activity.

I have traded exclusively peer to peer for years and have never once been investigated or had any problems whatsoever. If this is a concern of yours, then either only trade with people who have lots of positive feedback, or only trade in cash or similar and avoid direct bank transfers.

Still, you'll face much worse than a locked bank account (such as a criminal record and being liable for tens of thousands of dollars of credit and loans you didn't take out) when your KYC data is leaked, hacked, or sold and your identity is stolen.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on May 04, 2021, 01:59:36 PM

The advice is that we should try all possible ways to avoid custodial services, they are the threat that may favor thieves tomorrow. To use cryptocurrencies properly, go 100% noncustodial, also do not fill in right information while buying hardware wallets.

This is a challenge that most people are not up to, some because they simply do not know that there are alternatives (DEX - Decentralized crypto exchanges or P2P markets), and others for whom privacy and protection of personal data is not a priority in life. In addition, people generally equate crypto exchanges with banks, and therefore think that there are insurance mechanisms in what they consider crypto banks. Living in the belief “my crypto and my data are safe” is certainly very enjoyable until something bad happens.

The real problem is that most of those who collect user data (not just related to crypto) have an almost amateurish attitude to the security of that data - and that just shows that they don't care too much about their customers. All of these companies should be forced to raise security measures to the maximum in order to prevent data leaks - and the only way for them to take this seriously is extremely high fines in the event that such things happen to them.

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on May 04, 2021, 04:53:00 PM

The person you are meeting could be malicious and just posing as a trader yet he's a thief/robber you could tell you to transfer your BTC at Gun point.

This is kinda worse. But what is realistic happening is the money on p2p exchange used has been involved in money laundering. Now you are the one receiving the money and of course you'll end up being investigated and possible locked of your bank account if the money paid or used was proven came from scam or malicious activity.

I've witnessed this before happening on some of our local users.

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Quote from: Stanlo on May 05, 2021, 07:17:53 AM

Many people keeps talking about the risks involved with KYC but it's the only way to swap your crypto to Fiat

No, it isn't. There are plenty of platforms designed to enable decentralized peer to peer trading, which allow you to sell your bitcoin or other crypto for a fiat of your choosing using a method of your choosing (cash, bank transfer, money order, PayPal, Perfect Money, Zelle, AdvCash, etc.) Bisq, LocalCryptos, and Hodl Hodl are the most popular such platforms. You can also find people on this forum who are willing to trade, or at local bitcoin meet ups or events.

Quote from: Stanlo on May 05, 2021, 07:17:53 AM

it's not as if Fiat is eradicated already and all store and markets in the world are using crypto as means of exchanges, you can't do with Fiat when it comes to daily needs and life responsibility

Sure, it is difficult (but not impossible) to live on crypto, but you can spend it in a lot of places if you just go looking for them. The easiest method is to use a gift card site (list here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-gift-cards-providers-5208530) to buy gift cards for your chosen retailer. That way, you can shop at Amazon, Ebay, Walmart, CVS, and other big retailers, all without having to complete KYC.

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on May 04, 2021, 04:53:00 PM

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It would be hard as well to find social circles or community that trade cryptos. I tried to find one in Facebook and most of the Facebook Groups I joined were mostly just promoting ponzis that aren't even crypto-related, just like a dead group page.
Only thing I could think to personally buy and sell coins especially Bitcoin without KYC is through ATMs though some still require government issued IDs and it could be quite rare to find one especially in the 3rd world countries.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 05, 2021, 03:32:01 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on May 04, 2021, 04:53:00 PM

Sometimes even p2p exchanges can prove challenging security wise especially if offers involve meeting your trading partner to exchange the BTC for cash in hand. The person you are meeting could be malicious and just posing as a trader yet he's a thief/robber you could tell you to transfer your BTC at Gun point.

Meet in the middle of the day somewhere very public and maybe with good CCTV coverage, such as a large shopping mall or travel hub such as an airport. Only trade with people with lots of positive feedback, or trade with the same person over time to build up trust. Bring a friend with you, and bring your own means of self defense if legal in your country. Leave extra cash, BTC, and valuables at home - only bring with you what you are going to trade.

Anyone on the street could be a thief waiting to mug you a gun point. You can trade cash in person very safely if you take some basic precuations.

Quote from: Synerggy on May 05, 2021, 02:27:15 AM

Ok, I have been using binance right from the start when it comes to Fiat withdrawal and KYC verification is been verified, are you saying criminals can track my address all the way from binance down to Africa?

Yes. Binance have previously been hacked for KYC information. If you were one of the unlucky ones, then not only has your real name and address been linked to the fact you own a verified Binance account and therefore you own crypto and are a prime target for muggers, but also your personal documents are probably now being sold on the dark web and you could end up with your identity being stolen.

KYC is always a risk.

Many people keeps talking about the risks involved with KYC but it's the only way to swap your crypto to Fiat, it's not as if Fiat is eradicated already and all store and markets in the world are using crypto as means of exchanges, you can't do with Fiat when it comes to daily needs and life responsibility

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Quote from: Oshosondy on May 04, 2021, 01:59:36 PM

also do not fill in right information while buying hardware wallets.

How will you receive your package then? I don't think this is a good idea. Maybe you want to say that users should use an address or po box dedicated for delivery instead? As far as I can remember this is one of the solutions that was discussed when the Ledger leak happen.

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Anything that is currently on the internet can pose risks in the future. Any account you have today might be compromised tomorrow. Therefore, it is a very good practice to use separate false personal information and passwords for every account you own. This way, your accounts cannot be linked together by name or passwords in case one of these are leaked, nor can your personal identity be linked to those.

Use temporary emails as often as possible for accounts you only need temporarily. Perhaps you could use a different e-mail for every domain you have activity in. Need to create a Binance account? Create a new e-mail for it, separate from your personal one. The less information there is online about you, the better. Once KYC is completed, nobody can ensure you that your information will ever disappear of the web. It's a web - information gets caught in it and it's quite hard to take it off.

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on May 04, 2021, 04:53:00 PM

Sometimes even p2p exchanges can prove challenging security wise especially if offers involve meeting your trading partner to exchange the BTC for cash in hand. The person you are meeting could be malicious and just posing as a trader yet he's a thief/robber you could tell you to transfer your BTC at Gun point.

Meet in the middle of the day somewhere very public and maybe with good CCTV coverage, such as a large shopping mall or travel hub such as an airport. Only trade with people with lots of positive feedback, or trade with the same person over time to build up trust. Bring a friend with you, and bring your own means of self defense if legal in your country. Leave extra cash, BTC, and valuables at home - only bring with you what you are going to trade.

Anyone on the street could be a thief waiting to mug you a gun point. You can trade cash in person very safely if you take some basic precuations.

Quote from: Synerggy on May 05, 2021, 02:27:15 AM

Ok, I have been using binance right from the start when it comes to Fiat withdrawal and KYC verification is been verified, are you saying criminals can track my address all the way from binance down to Africa?

Yes. Binance have previously been hacked for KYC information. If you were one of the unlucky ones, then not only has your real name and address been linked to the fact you own a verified Binance account and therefore you own crypto and are a prime target for muggers, but also your personal documents are probably now being sold on the dark web and you could end up with your identity being stolen.

KYC is always a risk.

Topic: Centralized and kyc platforms can pose risks in the future - page 2. (Read 518 times)