CEX ruins the true value of Bitcoin | Bitcointalksearch.org

royalfestus

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Quote from: virasog on March 26, 2022, 01:07:27 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on March 25, 2022, 09:13:03 PM

What is interesting, however, is that despite people supporting Bitcoin they are also supporting centralized exchanges and custodial wallets and all things that are essentially against the Bitcoin standard. So perhaps we could ask whether the people really prefer complete independence. For many years, DExes are left behind by CExes in terms of volume. Moreover, despite compulsory KYC hassles and failing a number of times in the process, centralized exchanges are not losing popularity. Is it only because DExes don't support fiat? Or is it simply because CExes are generally better? Or perhaps people aren't really interested get out of fiat altogether?

People want to use DExes but the decentralized exchanges lack a lot of feature which centralized exchanges offer. If you use uniswap, you will have to pay too much fee while people can trade the same tokens on centralized exchanges with minimal fee. Pancakeswap has no issue of high fee but often there are liquidity problems. Above all, none of the decentralized exchanges offer stop limit and future trading , margin trading etc. Unless these decentralized exchanges offer all benefits, i don't see people shifting from the centralized exchanges.

Both Uniswap and Pancakeswap do not trade bitcoin and bitcoin is the tartget here, maybe we should start looking at bitcoin DEXes. Other option will be wrapped bitcoin or rBTC but invariable the neglect on bitcoin could affect it on the long if many people adopt it. We cant rule out coinbase involvement in this exploitation to control transfer of fund across close countries.

Quickset

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Quote from: Mehedi72 on April 20, 2022, 03:21:26 AM

CEX was also good but recently governments start throwing tons of rules and regulations on them which is effect can be shown on bitcoin. But CEX is still better than DEX cause they providing facilities of trade, margin, future, stop loss and thus people can best use what they have decided. Will only p2p transactions help to make bitcoin fly? I think without CEX, it would also ruins bitcoin true value.

CEX uses a custodial framework which does not give full control of private keys to the user and leads to giving no sense of ownership.

Mehedi72

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CEX was also good but recently governments start throwing tons of rules and regulations on them which is effect can be shown on bitcoin. But CEX is still better than DEX cause they providing facilities of trade, margin, future, stop loss and thus people can best use what they have decided. Will only p2p transactions help to make bitcoin fly? I think without CEX, it would also ruins bitcoin true value.

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: verita1 on April 08, 2022, 04:53:31 PM

Although we have contrary opinions, for or against. CEXs have contributed to the exponential growth of people who use bitcoin. They have had the opportunity to learn about bitcoin on these platforms and have even created a way of working as a trader, in P2P and other ventures linked to these sites.
I do not disagree with the CEX, on the contrary, I feel safe in their apps, and every day I notice improvements in UX/UI due to user demands.

There is always pros and cons to everything. Centralized exchanges has been helpful indeed and I can say that for sure because I’m also one of those that started in the cryptocurrency market by making use of these exchanges. They are really helpful for the fact that they have a simple interface and are far much easier to use than the decentralized or non-custodial wallets and exchanges. At the same time, we all know that these exchanges are not working the way that bitcoin is meant to be, which is decentralization.

The community is meant to be decentralized and not controlled by anything or anyone.FYI Even if there was no centralized exchanges people would have still been able to learn how to make use of the non-custodial wallets and decentralized exchanges.

Smack That Ace

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Quote from: verita1 on April 08, 2022, 04:53:31 PM

Although we have contrary opinions, for or against. CEXs have contributed to the exponential growth of people who use bitcoin. They have had the opportunity to learn about bitcoin on these platforms and have even created a way of working as a trader, in P2P and other ventures linked to these sites.
I do not disagree with the CEX, on the contrary, I feel safe in their apps, and every day I notice improvements in UX/UI due to user demands.

There is no denying that CEX has contributed a huge part to the growth of bitcoin and the entire market. Most of the people entering the market will most likely have a CEX account, after all trading exchange through CEX is simpler and safer than DEX for newbies.

Currently, there are many reputable centralized exchanges like Binance, I must say that I feel satisfied when using Binance. But I still would like to advise you not to put all your assets on a centralized exchange as they can freeze your assets anytime, you are not fully in control of your keys when stored on CEX. The war between Russia and Ukraine has shown us what they can do with our assets.

Ale88

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Quote from: coupable on April 08, 2022, 06:11:13 PM

Quote from: Ale88 on April 08, 2022, 01:35:05 PM

Quote from: coupable on April 06, 2022, 06:36:06 PM

Quote from: Ale88 on April 05, 2022, 05:47:51 PM

Quote from: coupable on April 02, 2022, 04:54:08 PM

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

If i am not wrong, it was 2014-2015.
It's a famous case. Please take a look at it.
The main reason for someone to scam others is greedness which you won't see until the incident happens.

I double checked, it happened in February 2014 and they stole approx $473 mln, which of course is a huge amount of money even today, but at the same time it's not that much compared to the current exchanges gains through the commissions. CZ alone is worth at least $75 billions, so the difference is huge.

With my statement I don't mean we need to trust CEX at 100% but for sure many things changed in the last 7-8 years.

I am pretty sure that nothing important has been developped since then expect the inerfer of SEC authorities for similar cases. Many other projects turn into a scam after building the good reputation for several years. Not toention examples like Yobit and HitBtc who are still operating despite the accusations .

Yobit and HitBtc were kind of shady almost since the beginning, I've never used them and I absolutely don't plan to ever do it. I'm surprised there still are people who use those exchanges. I've only used Bitstamp at the very beginning, then Kraken and Bitfinex, now pretty much only Binance, Kucoin and Gate.

coupable

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Quote from: Ale88 on April 08, 2022, 01:35:05 PM

Quote from: coupable on April 06, 2022, 06:36:06 PM

Quote from: Ale88 on April 05, 2022, 05:47:51 PM

Quote from: coupable on April 02, 2022, 04:54:08 PM

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

If i am not wrong, it was 2014-2015.
It's a famous case. Please take a look at it.
The main reason for someone to scam others is greedness which you won't see until the incident happens.

I double checked, it happened in February 2014 and they stole approx $473 mln, which of course is a huge amount of money even today, but at the same time it's not that much compared to the current exchanges gains through the commissions. CZ alone is worth at least $75 billions, so the difference is huge.

With my statement I don't mean we need to trust CEX at 100% but for sure many things changed in the last 7-8 years.

I am pretty sure that nothing important has been developped since then expect the inerfer of SEC authorities for similar cases. Many other projects turn into a scam after building the good reputation for several years. Not toention examples like Yobit and HitBtc who are still operating despite the accusations .

Mahanton

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Quote from: Wiwo on April 08, 2022, 04:08:30 PM

This is what you get when you use the service of a centralized exchange and one other exchange you failed to mention is the popular binance exchange which also requires certain information from a user of a different country with their peculiar KYC requirement. I have always tried as much as possible to avoid the use of centralized cryptocurrency services because of the demand for personal information and documents to be able to operate on them. I call them the crypto bank as they are performing according to the same law that guides the banking system.

In exchange of convenience from converting your fiat to crypto then you would really be needing to exchange your personal information or simply your anonymity or identity.If you are fine with that and dont bother
yourself about getting known or possible taxation or something like that then go ahead but it is totally contrary on why crypto is been created for which is for decentralization.
Yeah, CEX might ruin it but are there things that we do have some choice then we do go with that but now, we dont have something that we could choose on.

verita1

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Although we have contrary opinions, for or against. CEXs have contributed to the exponential growth of people who use bitcoin. They have had the opportunity to learn about bitcoin on these platforms and have even created a way of working as a trader, in P2P and other ventures linked to these sites.
I do not disagree with the CEX, on the contrary, I feel safe in their apps, and every day I notice improvements in UX/UI due to user demands.

Wiwo

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This is what you get when you use the service of a centralized exchange and one other exchange you failed to mention is the popular binance exchange which also requires certain information from a user of a different country with their peculiar KYC requirement. I have always tried as much as possible to avoid the use of centralized cryptocurrency services because of the demand for personal information and documents to be able to operate on them. I call them the crypto bank as they are performing according to the same law that guides the banking system.

mildmanneredsuffering

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gee big surpirses bitcoin gets hit again. does everyone just short btc everyday until its shutdown ow? Is it that easy to make money by only shorting every single rise?

Shameful display of fucking down every damn week

Ale88

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Quote from: coupable on April 06, 2022, 06:36:06 PM

Quote from: Ale88 on April 05, 2022, 05:47:51 PM

Quote from: coupable on April 02, 2022, 04:54:08 PM

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

If i am not wrong, it was 2014-2015.
It's a famous case. Please take a look at it.
The main reason for someone to scam others is greedness which you won't see until the incident happens.

I double checked, it happened in February 2014 and they stole approx $473 mln, which of course is a huge amount of money even today, but at the same time it's not that much compared to the current exchanges gains through the commissions. CZ alone is worth at least $75 billions, so the difference is huge.

With my statement I don't mean we need to trust CEX at 100% but for sure many things changed in the last 7-8 years.

wilkine

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Bitcoin is created for the purpose of freedom and decentralization. But CEX works the other way. Maybe at first we could use help from exchange platforms to make crypto assets well known, but eventually people will realize they don't need CEX to trade at all. It's a process that takes time.

franky1

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CEX ruins the values(features and benefits) of bitcoin(privacy/pseudonymity)
.. BUT
CEX establishes the value($financial) of bitcoin
after all when you check the price of bitcoin. you check the main markets.

best advice is. If/WHEN you are ready to convert from fiat to bitcoin or from bitcoin to fiat. expect that the wire transfers from banks will be reporting you anyway or knowing your involvement in crypto. so dont be afraid to use CEX when you are dealing with fiat. .. but if your not dealing in fiat. dont use an exchange

mindrust

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The solution is simple, don't use any centralized exchanges. Do not keep you money on them, do not make any trades there. But then, if people weren't using these exchanges the space would be so dull and empty. It is probably most people treat crypto as a giant casino and centralized exchanges are often the fastest and the only ways of depositing/withdrawing cash...

mildmanneredsuffering

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bitcoin is too slow for onchain exchange. there is the weakness. it must be trade via an sql ledger not the bitcoin network ledger.
And that makes the fixed supply denominator notso fixed.

Here we have reached the end of the bitcoin experiment. we learned so much and now we know.

exchange must be onchain for true supply economics to work.

Did futures and other infinite supply mechanics kill bitcoin, did sql ledgers trading kill bitcoin, did we all kill bitcoin?

yes

dunfida

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Quote from: JahriMeayer on April 05, 2022, 01:14:56 PM

CEXs are pressurized by government to obey their rules and regulations what they provided. When you want to dealing fiat with crypto-currencies, government ask kyc otherwise that will be under money laundering sections. Even It'll be easy to trust CEXs when you know their identity. Besides file complain if you get scammed. Where it wont be easy for DEXs but it just gives facilities to trade & convert without kyc issue. Maybe later they make themself better for use

At least we do have some option but majority of us wont really be having any options but to dealt with CEX since this is the only medium or path for us to make out conversions from crypto to fiat which cant be possible
on decentralized exchanges. We've seen platforms had no kyc wayback but since they are regulated then this is where they do really get pressured on applying such terms and conditions because they've been asked to do so which would lead no choice and wont really be surprising that almost centralized platforms would really come into this path which is something to become the norm.

coupable

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Quote from: Ale88 on April 05, 2022, 05:47:51 PM

Quote from: coupable on April 02, 2022, 04:54:08 PM

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

If i am not wrong, it was 2014-2015.
It's a famous case. Please take a look at it. The case seems to be resolved after catching up its CEO but the authorities still fail to recover the full lost amount knowing that the thief has partners from inside/outside the platform to help him enjoy his winnings.

The main reason for someone to scam others is greedness which you won't see until the incident happens.

Ale88

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Quote from: coupable on April 02, 2022, 04:54:08 PM

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

JohnBitCo

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Quote from: hd49728 on April 01, 2022, 11:55:07 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 01, 2022, 07:51:58 AM

True DEXs, like BISQ, are open source projects licensed under a GPL-like license that makes the project "owned" by the community. If a lead developer leaves, another from the community can take his/her place, like Bitcoin when Satoshi left, or Linux if Linus Torvalds leaves.

Problems with Bisq is their low trading volume. So it reveals the fact that not much people actually care about privacy, anonymity and truly DEX. If they care about that, they will use true DEX like Bisq more and will contribute to make trading volume on it much higher.

I disagree with the OP on the opinion. Bitcoin is for everyone and there are many use cases for it, on DEX, on CEX, on Peer-to-Peer marketplace, gambling sites, etc. Nothing destroys the true value of Bitcoin. Together, they contribute to bring Bitcoin to the world, to result in better adoption. It's more good than harm.

Yeah, DEXES are not fully developed yet and people are comfortable trading on centralized exchanges. However, the there is no difference in true value of bitcoin if dexes were more common.
I don't think that anyone does not buy or trade bitcoin only because trading platforms are centralized.

Topic: CEX ruins the true value of Bitcoin (Read 814 times)