Topic: CEX ruins the true value of Bitcoin - page 4. (Read 722 times)

All I can accept is that to some extent "price" is being decided by traders but the intrinsic value which is always close to the price is decided by the utilities otherwise I can't see how it can be sustained for years.

The important thing is the degree of their power. Can they crash the market to $30k? Of course. Can they crash it to $30? Absolutely not.

Obviously. One of the utilities of money is being a store of value, being deflationary makes it an even better SoV.

Real value != financial value. The same mistake when some people in the forum read "HODL Bitcoin as a hedge", and literally conclude "financial hedge". Because of Bitcoin's underlying nature, it's not just a "financial hedge", it's also a hedge against a group of non-elected people who are trusted by plebs to keep the monetary system in order.

It's influenced by many things that lead to these areas being restricted to Coinbase, like the OP's problem, seeing from a 1 CEX perspective, and the effect it has is not too specific. I think users in those regions are still doing well with other vehicles. Obviously, many of the risks from CEX lead to DEX being navigated and favored, but the main issue the OP is talking about is really not so ominous.

Im pretty sure it is. Its the whale trading game make it move just accept it. If they wanted it move down, they will do it, regardless the adoption and its all about the gains and profits from trading. Utilities of bitcoin, do you think people like Michael Saylor bought in for utilities? You know very well he bought it for profits. I do believe in bitcoin as truly decentralized, but just accept the fate that it is being bought due to investment driven reason. If a whale bitcoin holder ( wanted it down) trust me, utility or not. It will go down, what reason he will do it? Ofcourse trading reason.

Check whales wallet do they used it everyday for utlities? I dont think so. But Im pretty confident that they will move their holding basef on CHART (trading) not for peer to peer system.

I disagree. Trading alone can not ensure price rise. There are a lot of markets, like penny stocks or even the shitcoin market that people trade in a lot but they can't gain the same value as bitcoin. At the end of the day it is the utilities that bitcoin provide that makes people "buy" more bitcoin and increase the price regardless of what traders are doing day to day.

That's because your vision is limited. You are only focusing on the fact that the number of people who see bitcoin as an investment has grown but you ignore that people in other groups (the unbanked and those seeking financial sovereignty) has also grown.
In fact if you look closer you can see that many of those who are trading bitcoin are doing it because they want to increase the amount of bitcoin "currency" they own.

These exchanges has to follow the regulations of government if they want to continue their services so what can we expect from them when the government made them to do it. When you are dealing cryptocurrencies with Fiat the KYC will become unavoidable for sure in the next few years and you know we don't have to convert bitcoin to CAD or USD we can simply use bitcoin as bitcoin itself atleast in the future.

The centralized crypto exchanges are already kinda similar to banks,when it comes to complying with the laws and regulations set by the authorities.We can't blame them for that.Every registered business has to comply with the laws and regulations,otherwise it will get punished by the authorities.
I guess that we can't have both value and anonymity.We have to sacrifice one or the other.
Complete anonymity means less value,like messing around privacy coins,which are less valuable or using BTC mixers,which are costing you fees and there's always a risk of getting scammed and losing your coins.
A CEX can also scam you,but at least you could hire a lawyer and sue them.

We cant stopped that since they are being alarmed on those shitty scammers who do money laundering. If there is a way to find those guys before they can continued to use cex for their greed then this is it. Im pretty sure only few would disagree to that. Of course the resistant itself are those scammers hiding on innocence. Some dont want to use the cex for their privacy and we can agree on that but that leaves government no choice for those who arent playing fair ( rugg pull/ scam/ hacked).

Cexs are going to be more stricter since the eyes of the government is with them and they are being monitored as well.

They are very strict to avoid customers or citizens that could be involved with money laundering. That is why some folks have experienced sudden alarm of being suspected involved to those activities that they are discouraging. And they do that through asking more information and additional kyc.

Everyday in centralized exchanges do have sell orders, this means everyday someone want to sell his coins and we can assume most of Bitcoin's daily volumes is traders. Trader will need many features to help their decision of their analysis. It's hard to implemented such features to decentralized exchanges because:
1. trade in DEX isn't automatic, you need to send and confirm, while stop loss is automatic.
2. future trading and margin trading would possible when the liquidity is high.

Well some of them choose to do so, because it fits their new business model... (Circle)   These exchanges know exactly what they are doing and they usually start with "low" requirements for small traders, because they know those users are the bulk of their income.

So, later..... when the user base grow, it will catch the attention of the regulators and they have to start to adhere to all the KYC/AML regulations. (The regulators are not too worried about the small operators, but once they step up into the big leagues.. they are forced to adhere to the same regulations as the big boys) 

Actually it is. Bitcoin price fly to the moon not because many uses it on the decentralized aspect or peer to peer system. It is flying up to this level  due to simply trading. Centralized market and even whales holding massive bitcoin just to trade it and gains from it isnt it?

The bull run is due to the massive adoption of bitcoin on trading and not how the way it is decentralized and being used. And if we based it on stat even Im not looking on it, Im 100% sure that there are more traders and users who used bitcoin for trading rather than use btc for buying or peer to peer and any other form of decentralized system of btc.

bitcoins 'values' (features and benefits) is different from bitcoins financial value
and bitcoins financial value is different than bitcoins price

so lets get things fully correct
bitcoins values(features and benefits) have changed alot. it has actually become less of a system for the unbanked to use for daily purposes of buying food or getting paid a wage(common currency), and instead become more of an investment asset


the financial VALUE is a number that sits below the price. you wont find what the financial value is on any CEX or DEX. its made up from the bottomline support that pretty much everyone would refuse to sell below because no matter what method of acquiring bitcoin you can find, those selling wont sell below it.
thus the main way to work out the financial value is from the cheapest mining cost.
because if no one can mine for any less. everyone would be buying coin because its cheaper to buy than to mine.

as for bitcoin price. its actually the CEX that people gauge prices from.
if you look at many DEX and 'localbitcoin' style portals the price is too varied, so no one can ascertain a correct price thats deemed right for the moment.
however CEX allows people to trade at a single price point and also arbitrage between exchanges to balance out the price over many CEX so that most of the CEX platforms follow each other and so people can see a price point and settle on that number as being the market rate.

You are wrong because value of bitcoin doesn't stem from how easily you can trade it! But the real value of bitcoin stems from how decentralized and censorship resistant it is as a currency or a payment system. This principle does NOT change for bitcoin no matter how much restrictions are placed in some centralized third party service that works with bitcoin.

Because it isn't as necessary for the users to use just a DEX, like BISQ, but I believe if we lose more exchanges to the governments' demanding requirements, DEX trading will become the first choice for many users.

Plus don't believe those trolls who spreads misinformation that DEX, or their developers are "random individuals" hiding away. Decentralized Exchanges are simply solutions to a problem.

They can only play safe when they are doing dex that arent connected to fiat. Obviously these are anon guys. But those dex with fiat conversion will likely to follow what cex is doing to avoid such harsh law of crypto.

Thats true. However some cex doing the opposite and has plenty of issue thats why others are hesitant with this and also we can assume that some whales prefer to have fiat without being noticed and thats where dex comes in. Anyway countries have no other choice but to do some of this since some incidents of hacking and doing money laundering has been happening widely on crypto just to avoid the precious taxes.

People want to use DExes but the decentralized exchanges lack a lot of feature which centralized exchanges offer. If you use uniswap, you will have to pay too much fee  while people can trade the same tokens on centralized exchanges with minimal fee. Pancakeswap has no issue of high fee but often there are liquidity problems. Above all, none of the decentralized exchanges offer stop limit and future trading , margin trading etc. Unless these decentralized exchanges offer all benefits, i don't see people shifting from the centralized exchanges.

Well, the reality is they have really played a big role to the adoption as they are giving service to everyone that eases the conversion of bitcoin into fiat.

It is already there and we can no longer pull over and reverse it that they have grown together with bitcoin. There is still the main purpose of bitcoin but when it has come to the point of exchanging it, there goes the cexs and many of us in here don't mind the requirements as long as we get our money converted from btc.

People like to demonize Coinbase a lot(and sometimes rightfully so), but let's not pretend that they or exchanges in general actually wanted to place stricter measures in terms of manual data collection. 9 out of 10 times chances are these exchanges are just forced to do so.

In this case, we can't blame any of the cex. Because they are providing service as a company, and if they want to provide services, they should abide by the rules of the government. Otherwise, they are able to provide any service.First of all, they do not have any dex, meaning that they do not have any information about users. Because of kyc, all cex have a user's complete information.Why can't the government get the information from Cex as well?So in that case, we can only blame CeX. We also have to blame the government. Though I am also a cex user and it's badly needed because of the trading fees. So I can't blame them for ruining it; they're trying to provide services, but they have to deal with the government. It's what I believed. Others' opinions might be different. Thank you.