Charlie Shrem Pleads Guilty - What do you think? - page 3.

Walter Rothbard

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm

Quote from: ?? on ??

From August 2011 - August 2013 BitInstant processed around 400M worth of BTC to customers. (rough estimate)

Thats about 24 months in business.

In their indictment, the government alleges that 1M of that went to Silk Road. (I wasn't even selling BTC to Silk Road users, I was allegedly selling to a guy who in turn resold the coins to users on Silk Road for a markup )

That means over a 2 year span, 0.025% of transactions on BitInstant were for Silk Road.

BitInstant's total operating profit (before costs, expesnes, ect) on 1M USD is 1.5% = $15,000 total the company profited from these alleged crimes, over an 11 months period. Thats $1,363 per month.

Quote from: johncarpe64 on September 02, 2014, 11:59:10 PM

Charlie was doing pretty much exactly this (granted he was making more money from it) but the only other real difference is that he was profiting from and helping SR.

I personally made no extra money from these alleged crimes.

Hey, Charlie - thanks for the great service. I never used Silk Road (haven't ever done drugs in my life, though I affirm everyone should be legally free to do so), but I used BitInstant several times last year. It was fantastic, and I was sorry to see it go. I hope your legal woes will soon be as far behind you as they can possibly be.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: Yankee (BitInstant) on September 03, 2014, 12:10:52 PM

Quote from: HELP.org on September 03, 2014, 10:39:05 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 03, 2014, 10:14:43 AM

If you had AML/KYC info for that guy that was selling them to SR then you are not guilty.

From what I understand he is pleading guilty to knowingly selling Bitcoin when he knew they would be used for Silk Road so it doesn't matter what info he had. While it is well known Silk Road was used for some illegal activities not everything there was illegal. BitInstant's part seems be relatively small compared to people actively involved in planning and conducting substantial illegal activities on a regular basis. The documents show the activity he is pleading to was more of an aberration to get the guy out of his hair rather than some type of ongoing effort. Anything else is irrelevant since that is what he is pleading to. I think he will get probation.

This is exactly true!

That's really good news! You're going to get off easy and it was all BS to begin with. I had heard and believed so many rumors flying around that I didn't know what to believe. I even started repeating some of them myself. I formally apologize Charlie for being a part of that rumor mill. I'm glad you were around to clear it up.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1217

Hmm... this is a bit more complex than I thought earlier. Technically saying, if we exchange our coins to cash to some other guy, and if that guy uses those coins to purchase weed or other stuff from dark markets such as SR 2.0, then we could be prosecuted. The FBI could just create some false evidence claiming that the original seller had known of these plans in advance. Angry

Yankee (BitInstant)

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1000

Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem

Quote from: HELP.org on September 03, 2014, 10:39:05 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 03, 2014, 10:14:43 AM

If you had AML/KYC info for that guy that was selling them to SR then you are not guilty.

From what I understand he is pleading guilty to knowingly selling Bitcoin when he knew they would be used for Silk Road so it doesn't matter what info he had. While it is well known Silk Road was used for some illegal activities not everything there was illegal. BitInstant's part seems be relatively small compared to people actively involved in planning and conducting substantial illegal activities on a regular basis. The documents show the activity he is pleading to was more of an aberration to get the guy out of his hair rather than some type of ongoing effort. Anything else is irrelevant since that is what he is pleading to. I think he will get probation.

This is exactly true!

johncarpe64

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

From August 2011 - August 2013 BitInstant processed around 400M worth of BTC to customers. (rough estimate)

Thats about 24 months in business.

In their indictment, the government alleges that 1M of that went to Silk Road. (I wasn't even selling BTC to Silk Road users, I was allegedly selling to a guy who in turn resold the coins to users on Silk Road for a markup )

That means over a 2 year span, 0.025% of transactions on BitInstant were for Silk Road.

BitInstant's total operating profit (before costs, expesnes, ect) on 1M USD is 1.5% = $15,000 total the company profited from these alleged crimes, over an 11 months period. Thats $1,363 per month.

Quote from: johncarpe64 on September 02, 2014, 11:59:10 PM

Charlie was doing pretty much exactly this (granted he was making more money from it) but the only other real difference is that he was profiting from and helping SR.

I personally made no extra money from these alleged crimes.

Well very little extra money, but this isn't the point. The point was the volume, however it looks like the volume really didn't make a difference on your bottom line.

EDIT: I do remember doing rough math when the indictment came out and calculated that the amount of money you made from allegedly selling to SR was ~$10k.....I hardly think a 30 year sentence is appropriate with this level of profits.

Beliathon

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Quote from: ?? on ??

In their indictment, the government alleges that 1M of that went to Silk Road. (I wasn't even selling BTC to Silk Road users, I was allegedly selling to a guy who in turn resold the coins to users on Silk Road for a markup )

That means over a 2 year span, 0.025% of transactions on BitInstant were for Silk Road.

BitInstant's total operating profit (before costs, expesnes, ect) on 1M USD is 1.5% = $15,000 total the company profited from these alleged crimes, over an 11 months period. Thats $1,363 per month.

Jailtime for this is an absurd injustice. This is small fries, it should be a slap on the wrist fine - $15,000 at most.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: HELP.org on September 03, 2014, 11:08:27 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 03, 2014, 11:00:17 AM

Quote from: HELP.org on September 03, 2014, 10:39:05 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 03, 2014, 10:14:43 AM

If you had AML/KYC info for that guy that was selling them to SR then you are not guilty.

From what I understand he is pleading guilty to knowingly selling Bitcoin when he knew they would be used for Silk Road so it doesn't matter what info he had. While it is well known Silk Road was used for some illegal activities not everything there was illegal. BitInstant's part seems be relatively small compared to people actively involved in planning and conducting substantial illegal activities on a regular basis. The documents show the activity he is pleading to was more of an aberration to get the guy out of his hair rather than some type of ongoing effort. Anything else is irrelevant since that is what he is pleading to. I think he will get probation.

Even probation is too much unless he knew what the coins would be used for. If I sell Bitcoins to someone from Localbitcoins and he said I work at Newegg but I deal drugs too. Would I be guilty? How am I supposed to know whether he's using them for a purchase at Newegg or to buy drugs. That seems like a lot of circumstantial bullshit to me. Or I don't know the whole story.

I believe he is admitting he knew the coins were going to be resold guy was not a licensed transmitter and that they were sold on Silk Road. The docs shows he told the guy no a few times but gave in at one point. That is different then someone who planned a business around illegal activities.

Ah, that's the missing piece of the puzzle.

HELP.org

hero member

Activity: 510

Merit: 500

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 03, 2014, 11:00:17 AM

Quote from: HELP.org on September 03, 2014, 10:39:05 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 03, 2014, 10:14:43 AM

If you had AML/KYC info for that guy that was selling them to SR then you are not guilty.

From what I understand he is pleading guilty to knowingly selling Bitcoin when he knew they would be used for Silk Road so it doesn't matter what info he had. While it is well known Silk Road was used for some illegal activities not everything there was illegal. BitInstant's part seems be relatively small compared to people actively involved in planning and conducting substantial illegal activities on a regular basis. The documents show the activity he is pleading to was more of an aberration to get the guy out of his hair rather than some type of ongoing effort. Anything else is irrelevant since that is what he is pleading to. I think he will get probation.

Even probation is too much unless he knew what the coins would be used for. If I sell Bitcoins to someone from Localbitcoins and he said I work at Newegg but I deal drugs too. Would I be guilty? How am I supposed to know whether he's using them for a purchase at Newegg or to buy drugs. That seems like a lot of circumstantial bullshit to me. Or I don't know the whole story.

I believe he is admitting he knew the coins were going to be resold guy was not a licenses transmitter and that they were sold on Silk Road. The docs shows he told the guy no a few times but gave in at one point. That is different then someone who planned a business around illegal activities.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: HELP.org on September 03, 2014, 10:39:05 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 03, 2014, 10:14:43 AM

If you had AML/KYC info for that guy that was selling them to SR then you are not guilty.

From what I understand he is pleading guilty to knowingly selling Bitcoin when he knew they would be used for Silk Road so it doesn't matter what info he had. While it is well known Silk Road was used for some illegal activities not everything there was illegal. BitInstant's part seems be relatively small compared to people actively involved in planning and conducting substantial illegal activities on a regular basis. The documents show the activity he is pleading to was more of an aberration to get the guy out of his hair rather than some type of ongoing effort. Anything else is irrelevant since that is what he is pleading to. I think he will get probation.

Even probation is too much unless he knew what the coins would be used for. If I sell Bitcoins to someone from Localbitcoins and he said I work at Newegg but I deal drugs too. Would I be guilty? How am I supposed to know whether he's using them for a purchase at Newegg or to buy drugs. That seems like a lot of circumstantial bullshit to me. Or I don't know the whole story.

HELP.org

hero member

Activity: 510

Merit: 500

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 03, 2014, 10:14:43 AM

If you had AML/KYC info for that guy that was selling them to SR then you are not guilty.

From what I understand he is pleading guilty to knowingly selling Bitcoin when he knew they would be used for Silk Road so it doesn't matter what info he had. While it is well known Silk Road was used for some illegal activities not everything there was illegal. BitInstant's part seems be relatively small compared to people actively involved in planning and conducting substantial illegal activities on a regular basis. The documents show the activity he is pleading to was more of an aberration to get the guy out of his hair rather than some type of ongoing effort. Anything else is irrelevant since that is what he is pleading to. I think he will get probation.

Gotgoxed

member

Activity: 65

Merit: 10

Quote from: ?? on ??

From August 2011 - August 2013 BitInstant processed around 400M worth of BTC to customers. (rough estimate)

Thats about 24 months in business.

In their indictment, the government alleges that 1M of that went to Silk Road. (I wasn't even selling BTC to Silk Road users, I was allegedly selling to a guy who in turn resold the coins to users on Silk Road for a markup )

That means over a 2 year span, 0.025% of transactions on BitInstant were for Silk Road.

BitInstant's total operating profit (before costs, expesnes, ect) on 1M USD is 1.5% = $15,000 total the company profited from these alleged crimes, over an 11 months period. Thats $1,363 per month.

Quote from: johncarpe64 on September 02, 2014, 11:59:10 PM

Charlie was doing pretty much exactly this (granted he was making more money from it) but the only other real difference is that he was profiting from and helping SR.

I personally made no extra money from these alleged crimes.

I'm sorry for you bro!
but actually for the community it's very good news!!! Grin

People will think twice if it's worth getting involved in laundering stolen mt.gox coins for example
They will rot in hell when we get them Angry

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

If you had AML/KYC info for that guy that was selling them to SR then you are not guilty.

johncarpe64

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 02, 2014, 11:25:35 PM

Quote from: dankkk on September 02, 2014, 09:41:35 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 02, 2014, 04:01:25 PM

Quote from: efreeti on September 02, 2014, 03:35:12 PM

Why is he only one being prosecuted?

There are still a lot of people selling on localbitcoin.

I think his case is being used to set an example and make us behave. Everyone trading cash and Bitcoins without the proper license on localbitcoins is most certainly in violation of the law. I wish DnT was in this thread. He studied up on it and could explain the ins and outs.

I think it is more about buying and selling drugs over the internet. They charged Ross with the harshest statutes that were designed for drug lords. They changed that guy in FL with money laundering when he sold bitcoin on LBC at outrageous prices (huge mark up) to a undercover cop that told him he was going to use the bitcoin to buy drugs and do other illegal things.

You may be right. It might not have anything to do with Bitcoin. It may just be a warning to anyone trying to bypass drug laws using the deep web.

More evidence to support this theory is the fact that Mark (gox) was violating AML rules for years but was never charged with any crimes. Granted homeland security did seize their bank account, but this was likely to try to become more strict for AML (to make it easier to figure out who Ross was).

Also, how many traders on LBC or craigslist do you think there are that even attempts to follow AML rules? My guess is less then 20% on LBC and less then 5% on craigslist. Same with people trading fiat for bitcoin on this forum. People are outright breaking the law out in the open (that is bitcoin related) but the government is not doing anything about it. Granted these are all very small "fish" and there are no real victims.

Charlie was doing pretty much exactly this (granted he was making more money from it) but the only other real difference is that he was profiting from and helping SR.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: dankkk on September 02, 2014, 09:41:35 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 02, 2014, 04:01:25 PM

Quote from: efreeti on September 02, 2014, 03:35:12 PM

Why is he only one being prosecuted?

There are still a lot of people selling on localbitcoin.

I think his case is being used to set an example and make us behave. Everyone trading cash and Bitcoins without the proper license on localbitcoins is most certainly in violation of the law. I wish DnT was in this thread. He studied up on it and could explain the ins and outs.

I think it is more about buying and selling drugs over the internet. They charged Ross with the harshest statutes that were designed for drug lords. They changed that guy in FL with money laundering when he sold bitcoin on LBC at outrageous prices (huge mark up) to a undercover cop that told him he was going to use the bitcoin to buy drugs and do other illegal things.

You may be right. It might not have anything to do with Bitcoin. It may just be a warning to anyone trying to bypass drug laws using the deep web.

dankkk

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on September 02, 2014, 04:01:25 PM

Quote from: efreeti on September 02, 2014, 03:35:12 PM

Why is he only one being prosecuted?

There are still a lot of people selling on localbitcoin.

I think his case is being used to set an example and make us behave. Everyone trading cash and Bitcoins without the proper license on localbitcoins is most certainly in violation of the law. I wish DnT was in this thread. He studied up on it and could explain the ins and outs.

I think it is more about buying and selling drugs over the internet. They charged Ross with the harshest statutes that were designed for drug lords. They changed that guy in FL with money laundering when he sold bitcoin on LBC at outrageous prices (huge mark up) to a undercover cop that told him he was going to use the bitcoin to buy drugs and do other illegal things.

Eisenhower34

legendary

Activity: 906

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Minor Miner on September 01, 2014, 11:51:49 PM

I do not understand the thread. You are not a moron and yet you started this thread. He clearly broke the law and then put in writing how to continue to break the law and "he would not notice". Whether you agree with the law is irrelevant. He was not in the "gray area", he was fully entrenched in the black. Pleading guilty to save his ass and let the government set a precedent is the best outcome for him.

You are actually not qualified to make the statement that he broke the law. Only a judge or a jury that is presiding over his specific case is able to make that conclusion.

You have also only heard one side of the story as to what happened - the governments (prosecution) and even this is not their entire side because you have not been able to evaluate the sources of information that the government used to make the conclusions that they made.

BitcoinLlama

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

I think he did what he had to do.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: efreeti on September 02, 2014, 03:35:12 PM

Why is he only one being prosecuted?

There are still a lot of people selling on localbitcoin.

I think his case is being used to set an example and make us behave. Everyone trading cash and Bitcoins without the proper license on localbitcoins is most certainly in violation of the law. I wish DnT was in this thread. He studied up on it and could explain the ins and outs.

efreeti

full member

Activity: 350

Merit: 104

Why is he only one being prosecuted?

There are still a lot of people selling on localbitcoin.

FinalFantasy

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Charlie, how much time they stick u with?

Topic: Charlie Shrem Pleads Guilty - What do you think? - page 3. (Read 5999 times)