Topic: CHINA Banning bitcoin: PBOC Says All Crypto-Related Transactions Are Illegal (Read 897 times)

Well, If you are early in crypto. You will not surprised about china's shitty decision. They doing it for almost a decade now. Every time Bitcoin hits a new all-time high, china thinks "here we go again" It's time to fuck up the market again. The things Start In 2013. They Prohibited ICOs in 2017 then 2019, 2021, and finally 2021.

Here are 5 historical points of banning bitcoin in China.

• 2013: China declares war on crypto transactions
• 2017: ICOs prohibited
• 2019: Attention turns to bitcoin mining
• 2020: Enforcement ramps up
• 2021: China completely bans crypto trading and mining

Source: China Crypto Bans: A Complete History

I would recommend you to read this article. Look like the last one is their final action. I don't give a shit on them. They will regret it one day. While every country and money transaction will change. And they have to change too.

BTW, Just Follow This meme:

They have been saying the same thing like every single year. I’m even getting tired of seeing this particular news of China banning cryptocurrency, seriously it is starting to get on my nerves. If you have been following up with the news years back, you will keep seeing that the news are saying that China has banned cryptocurrency, we are always seeing a particular news that has to do or relates with that, so my question is how many times are they going to ban cryptocurrency?

If they are really banning cryptocurrency from their country, then why don’t they do it at once? Or is this just the media that is playing with people’s mind? Anyways, it has gotten past the level where this kind of news bothers me anymore, I just don’t care whether they ban cryptocurrency or not. It’s all their choice over there, if they decide that they want to ban cryptocurrency then it’s their business.

Well, It's true. I don't know why they oppose cryptocurrency. They know they cannot pause/stop the crypto revolution. These economists know that their investment could be in jeopardy because of Bitcoin. Where the whole world has taken Bitcoin or cryptocurrency as the currency of the future. There are some stupid economists out there talking nonsense like crazy. But whether they tell the truth, or lie, because of these comments, sometimes the market got affected. They regret why they did not invest in Bitcoin before. But the face does not express it. If you secretly offer them some bitcoin, they will not reject the offer. Instead, they will take the loop as soon as they get the offer. Although many of us do not listen to them. But those who are new to Bitcoin are hesitant about these comments. We cannot stop them. But, We can create awareness against stupids like Munger through the community.

Living life in China may not be as easy as we think. Although I have never visited the country but it will be very strange when everyone does not get much freedom in anything especially regarding their finances. So I don't think we need to talk about it all the time just because they can make FUD in the crypto market, it's never going to change things much because they are the ones that will stick with it in principle.

JayJuanGee, they generalize all crypto transaction without exception even though bitcoin is basically always different from thousands of other altcoin. I think we can only have a zero tolerance attitude towards them in this situation even though in the end they will stick with their decision.

The policy taken by China is Pure political interests because they do not want their power to manage the country's economy replaced. Since the BTC is present, who can regulate his condition besides each of them, this is a threat to the Chinese government that can be said to be an absolute authoritarian country.

Of course, there is a bit of weirdness in Munger's perspective.. at least in regards to asserting that he wished that crypto currencies had never been invented... and it's comes off as a complaining about something that already exists and whining about it.... and surely does show a kind of hostility when coupled with his desire that governments should focus on attempting to control "crypto" in a variety of ways.

I doubt that we can really argue that he is wrong in his desires that governments attempt to take strong stances towards "crypto,"  and largely he seems to be just vocalizing a perspective that he has and a battle direction that he believes would be fruitful - and of course, many of us already involved in bitcoin (or even crypto for that matter) are going to view Munger as a wee bit out of touch.. and maybe even a bit of a too little too late - and I suppose another angle remains the convolution of ideas about what is going on in "crypto" and what is going on in bitcoin, and surely from my own perspective, I get a bit perturbed when I see commentary that convolutes the ideas of bitcoin and crypto so it largely causes me to conclude that some of these purported financial experts do not know what the fuck they are talking about since they sometimes are not really ready, willing or able to distinguish bitcoin from crypto. and to make sure that their commentary (to the extent potentially valid) is adequately informed in order to better direct their concerns in ways that show that they at least understand differences between the concepts of bitcoin and crypto... another acknowledgement that many of us likely recognize is that likely some of the financial expert commentaries on crypto retains some advantages in both confusing the ideas and even purposefully convoluting (even if they may likely know better).

Billionaire Investor Charlie Munger Thinks China Was Right to Ban Bitcoin; Crypto Twitter Responds.
The Berkshire Hathaway vice chairman added that he wished crypto had never been invented.

Source: CoinDesh, https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2021/12/03/billionaire-investor-charlie-munger-thinks-china-was-right-to-ban-bitcoin-crypto-twitter-responds/

LOL.

I am wondering how the hell people think these kinds of shit in 2021?

That's a strange way to get to such conclusions.. and still not clear about what the point was anyhow.. .. unless you are just trying to say that some folks have more than 5x BTC price appreciation and they are still HODLing.. but even someone like me, I had asserted that I had gotten higher than 20x BTC price appreciation in 2017.. but then when the BTC prices sunk down had gone as low as 3x to 4x BTC price appreciation.. even at the various bottoms in 2018 or 2018 or even the 2020 flash crash..   but we know what happened after September 2020.. so surely anyone who had mostly invested in BTC before September 2020 would have 3x to 6x from whatever they had established prior to September 2020.

On the other hand, of course these can be moving targets for anyone trying to play around with their BTC holdings, and to try to trade rather than merely accumulate or HODL.. so there can be those levels of correct regarding the longer term players, but even longer term players can sometimes either get greedy or make mistakes..;. but each of us should be attempt to to figure out what to do based on our own situations rather than looking at what others might be doing (except maybe sometimes to attempt to learn from mistakes or even learn better practices that we can attempt to tailor to our own situations).

IDK if you get me wrong. But, I checked your BTC wallet address from your Signature and figured out that you received Nothing.

Then the question is why I write that? Actually messed up with copy/pasting your wallet address and I got the wrong result. Apologize.

Hm?  I did not know that.  You seem to either not be understanding the exponential angle of your referent properly or basing your scenario on facts that are not even close to being in the record.

For example, if I had been asserting that my average cost per BTC was $1k.. which seems to be some of my more recent assertions, and I had also asserted that I have more than 0.63 BTC (which I had also asserted in recent times), then the best that you could do from facts that are actually in the record (rather than made up shit) would be to get the turning of around a $630 investment to a value of $43,470 (at the $69k peak) and then the coming back down of the value of such BTC investment to around $34,209 at current prices (using $54,300 for calculation purposes).

In other words, I am not sure from where you are getting your seemingly whimpy-ass price appreciation numbers..  

Are you presuming that I messed up my BTC investment even more than I had been admitting to messing up.. and just for charity sake, let's say hypothetically that someone like me had invested into bitcoin with $17k with an average cost per BTC of around $1k per BTC (which would end up being 17 BTC), then you should be getting a spot price value of such investment to be around $923,100... even though I have also asserted that I do not like to use spot BTC price to be measuring my own wealth or making considerations regarding how to manage my BTC investment,

....but I won't hold it against you to be using spot price in order to attempt to make some quippy points about spot price and if you do not get it, then you seem to be failing/refusing to understand and appreciate the exponential wealth accumulation that may well end up presenting itself for any of the longer term BTC investors who may have been able to hang onto their coins...and perhaps had been able to achieve $1k or even sub $1k average costs per BTC.

My question is, Who Cares?

They doing it for a few years now. They will do it as long as they can.

Let's enjoy a few memes. Sit tight and HODL.
Our JJG Turned his $17K BTC to over $90K. He still Holding.

I am not clear about from where you would be getting your information.  You are suggesting that the Chinese government is doing opposite and contrary things simultaneously?

Sure those kinds of contrary and opposite things could happen, including the fact that they had seemed to have been engaged in a pattern of banning and unbanning, and that there might be manufacturing of mining equipment going on, so there could be some internal inconsistencies for sure, but I cannot understand what you mean by their "reserving" bitcoin which would suggest that the government is actually investing in bitcoin and holding it.. while they are banning it for others.. and that surely does not seem to be the case.

Of course, individual actors are likely engaging in all kinds of weird behaviors that may well be contrary to the governments policies and some of them might even be government officials, but there does not seem to be any official government policy to hold or invest in bitcoin, if that is what you seem to be saying and you want to clarify what you mean a wee bit more.

As far as the future goes, we can largely just speculate, and there does not really seem to be anything strange to the fact that some governments have seemed to have taken a strong stance against bitcoin and then later they are seemingly forced into taking lighter or more accepting position and then one branch of government might take an action that is contrary to another branch of government, and it seems difficult to consider any of these kinds of behaviors or even expectations that governments are going to contradict themselves over time into the future to be any kind of strange occurrence. 

Bitcoin is not exactly anything that has been easy for any governments or institutions to get a grasp upon and to figure out how to approach it, and especially when there can also be misunderstandings about both what bitcoin is and what might be the best regulatory approach to bitcoin,. whether taking a light-handed or strong-armed approach to it.... I doubt that any of us can really expect all governments to either be consistent amongst the factions within or with the passage of time or even be consistent with other governments around the world.. Probably part of bitcoin's great design is that there are incentives that are built into it that undermine various kinds of centralized systems, whether we are talking about governments or institutions, and in that regard, those various institutions have to adapt to bitcoin even if they might end up being all over the map in terms of their various ways of attempting to respond to bitcoin and even their trying to control bitcoin and figuring out that their ability to control it is really limited, so they are almost forced into taking more modest approaches if they end up wanting to prosper through their interactions with bitcoin.. which surely China is continuing to struggle with both bitcoin dynamics and some of their seeming ongoing beliefs that they are going to be able to harness and control bitcoin.. and likely later figure out that they (china) is going to have to adapt more to bitcoin in the event that they (china) does not want to get left behind.. We will see.. we will see... but I doubt that in the end we are going to expect consistencies, whether looking at their history, taking a snapshot of their present or even projecting into the future regarding what we expect them to do (and/or what they end up doing).

They banning Digital currency and they reserved the bitcoin. this is not new think lots of time they tell ban digital currency and after someday they accept it so I don't understand what they want to do actually.

As a coincidence CBECI Just updated their mining maps:




Now US accounts for 40% of the total hashing power.

When I read about China banning bitcoin mining I thought it was just a China-made FUD news, we were surprised to learn this news is actually true. This time it could be a news. same thing. Of course, this would be a serious mistake for China because China is one of the top BTC holders in the world they can manipulate the market and make huge profits. for your country. For many years, it is because they dominate the market that makes the economy of their country go up, so this is a very wrong decision of China.

@fillippone, how much is China's market share now? From your charts, I can see that their share of the hash rate dropped from 75%+ in 2019 to <50% by mid-2021. I wonder how much it is now, since a number of large miners shifted their operations from China due to the ongoing bans. Also, it doesn't mean that mining has stopped completely in China. The government is allowing the existing farms to operate under strict terms (although I am not sure for how long they will be allowed to mine coins).

Regarding to this, I found an interesting presentation from Nic Carter.
I am posting a  slide, just to outline how much this decision helped the birth of an industry in Texas:


https://niccarter.info/wp-content/uploads/txsummit_nc_oct08.pdf

On the same presentation there is another slide, forecasting the size of this industry, set to grow another 8x before 2030:


https://www.bitooda.io/public-files/091621%20BitOoda%20Hashrate%20Estimate%20Details.pdf

They literally ditched their leadership in the most promising industry on they last decade.

There are a lot of things westerners have said about China that have not proven to be true.  For example, that the free aspects of the economy would make the country more democratic as the wealth it created caused people greater economic and political freedoms.  This was widely expected to be the case and it hasn't proven out.  So the prediction that their current system is 1) unsustainable and 2) poised to collapse are just a couple more predictions that, like the example I mentioned, seem likely but for which history has warned us against assuming to be true.

The aging population bit though you are absolutely right about.  And the ccp knows this, which is why you've seen new initiatives like the relaxing of the one-child policy to two-child, and then the relaxing of that to three-child, and the urging of raising larger families as a point of national pride and importance.  The government is trying to get people to have more children because the economy, and therefore the party's power, depends on it.

If what you have posted is true, then I am 100% sure that it is not viable in the long term. China is a rapidly ageing society and right now there is a surplus of apartment buildings. The number of vacant buildings will rise further, as the population ageing progresses. During the last 3 decades, some of this ageing used to be neutralized by younger workers from the rural areas migrating to the cities. But now the number of older people retiring and moving back to the rural regions is almost as large as the number of younger people who are moving in the other direction.

I have checked the apartment prices in some of the major cities. Doesn't make any sense. They are as expensive as the apartments in Europe or the US. But the average wages are much below the level of Europe. So the vast majority of those who need them can't afford these apartments. Real estate sector calculated that the wages would grow as fast as they did in the first decade of this millennium, but that never happened. Either the apartment prices need to come down, or the government need to provide subsidies to those who need them.

On the flip side, the ban on btc isn't going to hurt either.  China's economy is so divorced from crypto it doesn't matter at all if it's banned.  Virtually the only thing that matters to hundreds of millions of Chinese is the real estate market.

The vast majority of Chinese wealth is tied into the real estate market (around 75% of wealth is directly tied to the real estate market in China).  Some of this is cultural (single men are expected to own their own home before women will consider them a suitable partner for marriage), some of this is dangerously presumptive (because so much individual wealth is tied into real estate, the belief by the people is the government will never let the market crash), and some of it is dangerous speculation (because the assumption is people believe the government will support real estate prices, people buy multiple properties assuming the prices can never drop or will never be allowed to drop).  

The complex reasons for the current state however put extreme pressure on the government to support the real estate market, creating a self-feeding loop that pushes prices higher and the higher prices convince more people that the investments are safe.  A real estate crash in China would create wide-ranging social unrest in China, and the party knows this.