[China's fakeness] Before and after - page 2.

shapeshiftscam

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Quote from: Amph on January 26, 2017, 02:43:36 AM

Quote from: Catmony on January 26, 2017, 01:45:42 AM

After chinese trading platforms started to have trading fees there is no way for manipulators to make fake orders and buy/sell on their own orders to pump the volume. This is good for bitcoin market and this may also make people aware of the fact that china is not the only one behind every pump/dump.

They can still manipulate, but it will cost them money, before it was free to do it this is the only difference, you can't stop market manipulation no matter what you do it is present everywhere not only in bitcoin

You are right, if exchanges have their own accounts to buy and sell, this can fake the volume too, additionally they don't lose money because the accounts are theirs. They use this trick to hype more volumes in order to get more venture capital funds.

pooya87

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Quote from: kaijialex on January 26, 2017, 10:27:29 AM

Even with the raised fee, people are still trading at OkCoin and BTCC with huge volume compared to other exchanges.

I don't find huobi in your second pie chart, is there any reason for that?

the Chinese have always been good "traders", no matter what they trade. in different things. and when bitcoin was introduced they rushed to exchanges to make more money and when altcoins came they gladly added the top couple of them to their exchanges to make more money. and because of this, they will always have higher volume. and besides the population of China alone gives them higher volume compared to other countries.

unlike d5000 above i don't expect volume go much lower than this in long term, since it is about the same as bitfinex,... volume now.

and d5000 is correct about the API problem.

d5000

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Quote from: kaijialex on January 26, 2017, 10:27:29 AM

Even with the raised fee, people are still trading at OkCoin and BTCC with huge volume compared to other exchanges.

It's not exactly "huge" anymore, but still BTCC and OkCoin are among the market leaders.

The reason is easy: There should be plenty of whales that are not from China and were trading at Chinese exchanges benefitting from the zero-fee policy. According to the theory of the path dependence (one can call it simply "inertia") most of them will stay there for a while, but at some moment they may decide to change back to "western" exchanges.

I expect the volume going down slowly in the near future at the Chinese exchanges, because for non-Chinese traders there should be more advantages to use exchanges near the country of residence (e.g. easier fiat deposits and withdrawals) and the regulatory environment in China is still somewhat "unstable".

Quote from: kaijialex on January 26, 2017, 10:27:29 AM

I don't find huobi in your second pie chart, is there any reason for that?

Huobi seems to have had API problems (they didn't show up at Bitcoinwisdom and Bitcoinity the last few days). Perhaps someone has more exact information, but their website seems to be working.

kaijialex

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Even with the raised fee, people are still trading at OkCoin and BTCC with huge volume compared to other exchanges.

I don't find huobi in your second pie chart, is there any reason for that?

traderethereum

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on January 26, 2017, 07:10:08 AM

it's clear that the chinese volumes were fake, but don't get too excited, bitcoin is still mostly chinese based, hashrate is still mostly chinese, that is the real problem, exchanges come and go, its good that the volume is not all chinese now, but its clear that the hashrate is still a problem, too centralized.

somehow i am agree with you, i don't know why because maybe i see that in china, the have large mining farm than any other places and they have newest technology than other country and maybe because of this, my feeling keep saying that china is still controlling bitcoin.

ABCbits

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Smart traders wouldn't believe with fake volume at China exchange, in fact many bitcoin price/statistic sites ignores used to ignore those exchange and give disadvantage to themselves.
What they control isn't bitcoin trading or price, but mining activity where they could secretly work together and ignore any bitcoin update or proposal which is more dangerous in long term.

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Quote from: BTCLovingDude on January 26, 2017, 07:33:55 AM

Quote from: pawel7777 on January 26, 2017, 06:55:28 AM

- if you trade with yourself just to artificially pump your volume in order to get lower-tier withdrawal fees - then it's certainly fake.

that is one definition for fake

whether the exchanges were doing it themselves, or was it users, or anything else for the reason, the important thing is that NO MORE the FUDs can use Chinese massive volume to their own advantage and spread lies.

now i wonder what the spam bot of speculation board is going to copy paste from now on Cheesy

FUDsters gonna FUD either way, they'll just focus on something else.
The problem is the PBOC's action took away the 'fake' trade but also huge part of genuine trade activity (high-volume-low-profit bots and margin trading). This has rather negative short-term impact on Bitcoin. Higher volume makes the value more stable and makes it harder to manipulate the price.

Hopefully in the longer run, Chinese traders will accept the fees and no margin trading (or they'll find their way to western exchanges) and the volume will pick up.

mobnepal

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on January 26, 2017, 07:10:08 AM

it's clear that the chinese volumes were fake, but don't get too excited, bitcoin is still mostly chinese based, hashrate is still mostly chinese, that is the real problem, exchanges come and go, its good that the volume is not all chinese now, but its clear that the hashrate is still a problem, too centralized.

There are many big mining farm in china and not all of them are operated by same company/person so they can't co-operate with each other to attack bitcoin network owning 51% of total mining power. And i even doubt that in total china based mining farm have more than 51% of total hashrate. There will be no any danger for bitcoin network if they can't conduct coordinated attack like blockchain roll back.

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Quote from: pawel7777 on January 26, 2017, 06:55:28 AM

- if you trade with yourself just to artificially pump your volume in order to get lower-tier withdrawal fees - then it's certainly fake.

that is one definition for fake

whether the exchanges were doing it themselves, or was it users, or anything else for the reason, the important thing is that NO MORE the FUDs can use Chinese massive volume to their own advantage and spread lies.

now i wonder what the spam bot of speculation board is going to copy paste from now on Cheesy

Oggy1987

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Quote from: pawel7777 on January 26, 2017, 06:55:28 AM

The way I see it, previous volumes from China weren't exactly 'fake'.

- if you trade with yourself just to artificially pump your volume in order to get lower-tier withdrawal fees - then it's certainly fake.
- if you take advantage of zero trading fees to day-trade (or run a bot) with very low profit margin and capitalise on even tiny price movements (no longer possible with 0.2% fees) - then I don't see how it's fake. Such activities made it very hard to get a clear picture of geographical volume breakdown, but there was nothing 'fake' about that.

It's both.
As I understood they were doing just what you said, trading with themself so they would get a decrease on fees when they were to withdraw money. But in order to withdraw money (profit) you had to made some real trades, basic buy low/sell higher.
And I'm happy how things go after PBOC, plus if its true that big investors are looking at bitcoin at the moment, it will significantly increase bitcoin price, but first they need time to "stack up".

BillyBobZorton

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it's clear that the chinese volumes were fake, but don't get too excited, bitcoin is still mostly chinese based, hashrate is still mostly chinese, that is the real problem, exchanges come and go, its good that the volume is not all chinese now, but its clear that the hashrate is still a problem, too centralized.

Let's just hope things start taking a 180 turn in the future, I don't like that china is so superior in the mining game than the rest, but i dont see a solution as long as the electricity is so cheap there.

pawel7777

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The way I see it, previous volumes from China weren't exactly 'fake'.

- if you trade with yourself just to artificially pump your volume in order to get lower-tier withdrawal fees - then it's certainly fake.
- if you take advantage of zero trading fees to day-trade (or run a bot) with very low profit margin and capitalise on even tiny price movements (no longer possible with 0.2% fees) - then I don't see how it's fake. Such activities made it very hard to get a clear picture of geographical volume breakdown, but there was nothing 'fake' about that.

ASHLIUSZ

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Whether its fake or real, now after the inspection over most of the exchange websites by peoples bank of china several changes have been made in the fee structure and trading process. Popular exchange websites have quoted a transaction fee of about 0.2% of the trading or transaction amount.

NorrisK

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I don't think you should write fake volume in those graphs. That is a conclusion you are drawing, not a fact.

What is a fact though, was that everybody could simply trade at enormous volumes for tiny profits at a time because there were no trading fees. Ofcourse this inflated the trading volumes, but this does not make this volume fake.

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Quote from: Velkro on January 26, 2017, 02:37:23 AM

Both graphs looks EXTREMELY good for bitcoin.
More decentralization around the world, that was all there but hidden under fake volumes of china.

this was the reason why websites like coinmarketcap.com never listed the Chinese exchanges in their market list. if you look there, it is still excluded and they are at the bottom of the list, greyed out. the volume used to be unreal.

Quote from: Amph on January 26, 2017, 02:43:36 AM

Quote from: Catmony on January 26, 2017, 01:45:42 AM

After chinese trading platforms started to have trading fees there is no way for manipulators to make fake orders and buy/sell on their own orders to pump the volume. This is good for bitcoin market and this may also make people aware of the fact that china is not the only one behind every pump/dump.

They can still manipulate, but it will cost them money, before it was free to do it this is the only difference, you can't stop market manipulation no matter what you do it is present everywhere not only in bitcoin

yeah but right now they are being investigated and under pressure. it is like when IRS is investigating a business, they cant continue doing their shady operation while on the radar.

Amph

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Quote from: Catmony on January 26, 2017, 01:45:42 AM

After chinese trading platforms started to have trading fees there is no way for manipulators to make fake orders and buy/sell on their own orders to pump the volume. This is good for bitcoin market and this may also make people aware of the fact that china is not the only one behind every pump/dump.

They can still manipulate, but it will cost them money, before it was free to do it this is the only difference, you can't stop market manipulation no matter what you do it is present everywhere not only in bitcoin

Velkro

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Both graphs looks EXTREMELY good for bitcoin.
More decentralization around the world, that was all there but hidden under fake volumes of china.

shinratensei_

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That's why the total number in coinmarketcap by the chinese exchanges are so redundant.

Exactly it's no sense.

ebliever

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Thanks for posting this. I was just looking over the Markets tab for Bitcoin on Coinmarketcap and came to a similar conclusion about the scope of Chinese bitcoin trading. Someone a few weeks ago was saying the real China volume was around 50% of the total, and now it looks like they were about right.

Catmony

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After chinese trading platforms started to have trading fees there is no way for manipulators to make fake orders and buy/sell on their own orders to pump the volume. This is good for bitcoin market and this may also make people aware of the fact that china is not the only one behind every pump/dump.

Topic: [China's fakeness] Before and after - page 2. (Read 1860 times)