Chipmixer to Electrum private key import issue

ChipMixer

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935098

Quote from: Abdussamad on September 12, 2018, 10:12:28 AM

What about breaking the link with chipmixer?

As with every service - you need some trust. We are open about how our way of mixing work. There is no secret sauce. We break deposits into chips and redistribute them to other customers at random. We are breaking link on-chain and it is our offer. You are free to find a way to break a link with us ie. use another mixer.

Quote from: Abdussamad on September 12, 2018, 10:12:28 AM

As long as they know your private keys they can steal from you. Today, tomorrow or 3 years from now!

That is why chips are not to be long term storage. Spend them at random time, send them to hardware wallet.

TryNinja

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Quote from: Abdussamad on September 12, 2018, 10:12:28 AM

You know you can always ask the user to enter multiple addresses where the outputs will be sent? You don't have to resort to sharing private keys.

That's not why ChipMixer uses the "chip model"; Your "vanilla mixing" can easily get caught with blockchain analysis. Using multiple addresses or not.

From their FAQ:

"After you've received private key, you can spend them right away without waiting for our transaction. But that's not all. Since your withdrawal is not visible on blockchain, it looks like your chip was moved a few days before your deposit. Time Travel! Third, less spectacular element this method gives you is that you decide when to move those coins next. Few days? Few seconds? Who knows, you are not encumbered with our solution. Fourth, when you are in a hurry, you can set higher fee to have your transaction included in first block. It's your money after all."
https://chipmixer.com/faq

Abdussamad

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Quote from: TryNinja on September 12, 2018, 10:09:55 AM

Quote from: Abdussamad on September 12, 2018, 10:02:34 AM

It is a basic mistake they are making and puts doubt on their entire service.

Then you clearly don't get what's the big difference between ChipMixer and every other mixer, and why they may be more efficient on breaking the link between the source of the coins and the output (the chips).

You know you can always ask the user to enter multiple addresses where the outputs will be sent? You don't have to resort to sharing private keys.

And BTW you talk about breaking the link. What about breaking the link with chipmixer? As long as they know your private keys they can steal from you. Today, tomorrow or 3 years from now!

TryNinja

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Quote from: Abdussamad on September 12, 2018, 10:02:34 AM

It is a basic mistake they are making and puts doubt on their entire service.

Then you clearly don't get what's the big difference between ChipMixer and every other mixer, and why they may be more efficient on breaking the link between the source of the coins and the output (the chips). It's all a trade-off between security and more privacy.

"If you trust us (as you already did when you sent coins into mixer) and spend chip when you need it, then you achive maximum privacy you can get. " - https://chipmixer.com/faq

Abdussamad

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Quote from: TryNinja on September 12, 2018, 09:39:23 AM

Quote from: Abdussamad on September 12, 2018, 09:35:38 AM

It was a mistake to trust this service. Any service that shares private keys as a mechanism to transfer bitcoin can't be trusted. He should do what he can now to secure his coins and the way to do that is to sweep them to an address whose private keys only he knows.

OP clearly said that there isn't even a history of transactions, so how is this a trust issue from ChipMixer's part?

That's probably related to the different wallet files issue that i talked about.

Quote

Also, what's the difference between trusting to send 0.5 BTC to a service and trusting to send and temporary hold a (shared) private-key with 0.5 BTC? In both cases, you must trust them enough to send your Bitcoins and expect them to send it back.

We all use exchanges to buy and sell bitcoin. We have to trust exchanges temporarily while they have our funds. Sometimes even that temporary risk bites us in the backsides when the exchange runs away with our money. Here you are asking the user to trust the service permanently i.e. even after you've "withdrawn" the funds.

The other thing is they are doing things the wrong way by sharing private keys. What else are they doing incorrectly? It is a basic mistake they are making and puts doubt on their entire service.

TryNinja

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Quote from: Abdussamad on September 12, 2018, 09:35:38 AM

It was a mistake to trust this service. Any service that shares private keys as a mechanism to transfer bitcoin can't be trusted. He should do what he can now to secure his coins and the way to do that is to sweep them to an address whose private keys only he knows.

OP clearly said that there isn't even a history of transactions, so how is this a trust issue from ChipMixer's part?

Also, what's the difference between trusting to send 0.5 BTC to a service and trusting to send and temporary hold a (shared) private-key with 0.5 BTC? In both cases, you must trust them enough to send your Bitcoins and expect them to send it back.

Abdussamad

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It was a mistake to trust this service. Any service that shares private keys as a mechanism to transfer bitcoin can't be trusted. He should do what he can now to secure his coins and the way to do that is to sweep them to an address whose private keys only he knows.

Also OP regarding your lost coins did you try switching wallets like I said? Each time you import you import to a different wallet file so your latest imported private keys are probably sitting in a different wallet file. Just go to file > open or file > recently open. You should still send those coins to an address in a new standard wallet though.

bob123

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Quote from: Yamo1123 on September 10, 2018, 03:34:22 AM

Ok will use the sweep option instead next time.

For the sake of your privacy, don't.
While with sweeping the private keys instantly you are still retaining a lot of privacy, it is better to not do this immediately.

The big advantage with chipmixer is, that they give you (a) private key(s) which you can import and use later.
Most mixers around simply just send funds back to you. This can easily be traced using advanced blockchain analysis.

With those private keys, you are able to create the transactions days, weeks or months later. This will complicate a blockchain analysis to a non-efficient way anymore.

Since you are trusting chipmixer anyway when using their service (simply by sending funds to their address), there is no reason to not trust them beyond the point of receiving the private key.
In addition to that the reputation of chipmixer is very good if you look across the forum (or other sources).

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: Abdussamad on September 10, 2018, 08:55:09 AM

Quote from: jackg on September 10, 2018, 07:34:57 AM

Quote from: Abdussamad on September 10, 2018, 07:15:01 AM

If your default wallet is made of imported private keys then you need to create a new standard wallet. Here's a guide to do it properly. Then you simply use the sweep function to sweep any private keys to it.

DON'T use the sweep function. The sweep function is designed to charge you a really high transaction fee. In that case, you may aswell use the sweep function in chipmixer (it does exactly the same thing)...

Import private keys and send a transaction with a small fee (1 sat per byte is enough to get a fast confirmation atm)...

The sweep function in Electrum now redirects you to the send tab where you can set a fee of your choice.

Oh that's cool! You used to just get to preview how much you'd lose in tx fees from the high rate and then end up losing them when you hit broadcast...

Abdussamad

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Quote from: jackg on September 10, 2018, 07:34:57 AM

Quote from: Abdussamad on September 10, 2018, 07:15:01 AM

If your default wallet is made of imported private keys then you need to create a new standard wallet. Here's a guide to do it properly. Then you simply use the sweep function to sweep any private keys to it.

DON'T use the sweep function. The sweep function is designed to charge you a really high transaction fee. In that case, you may aswell use the sweep function in chipmixer (it does exactly the same thing)...

Import private keys and send a transaction with a small fee (1 sat per byte is enough to get a fast confirmation atm)...

The sweep function in Electrum now redirects you to the send tab where you can set a fee of your choice.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: Abdussamad on September 10, 2018, 07:15:01 AM

If your default wallet is made of imported private keys then you need to create a new standard wallet. Here's a guide to do it properly. Then you simply use the sweep function to sweep any private keys to it.

DON'T use the sweep function. The sweep function is designed to charge you a really high transaction fee. In that case, you may aswell use the sweep function in chipmixer (it does exactly the same thing)...

Import private keys and send a transaction with a small fee (1 sat per byte is enough to get a fast confirmation atm)...

Abdussamad

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If your default wallet is made of imported private keys then you need to create a new standard wallet. Here's a guide to do it properly. Then you simply use the sweep function to sweep any private keys to it.

The reason you do it like this is because knowledge of private keys is what determines ownership of bitcoin. You don't have exclusive knowledge of the chipmixer private keys. The owners of that site may also know the private keys. So you have to move the bitcoins to an address whose private keys only you control i.e. an address in the new electrum wallet you create.

nc50lc

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Quote from: Yamo1123 on September 10, 2018, 03:34:22 AM

Ok will use the sweep option instead next time. I imported as those are the steps shown on chipmixer when you reach the withdrawal step.

At the moment I have my main default electrum Wallet and an imported wallet from that... should I still create a new wallet and what is the reason for that?

Sorry if this is all basic stuff.

Thanks

Your main (standard) electrum wallet is fine as long as it hasn't been compromised.
Creating another standard wallet is fine too, but don't sweep them in your imported wallet.

The reason for not-using that imported wallet is: the private keys of the addresses that you've imported came from another source.
Even from a reputable source (Chipmixer), the only user who must have the control over (who have seen) the private key(s) must exclusively be you.

By doing "import private keys", you're just including the address & prv key pair to your wallet, the source still have access to the prv key.
By "Sweeping" it, Electrum will make a transaction using all the tx inputs from the address pairs of that prv key, it will discard that key later, the balance will be transferred to your own (addresses) wallet, minus the transaction fee.

Yamo1123

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Ok will use the sweep option instead next time. I imported as those are the steps shown on chipmixer when you reach the withdrawal step.

At the moment I have my main default electrum Wallet and an imported wallet from that... should I still create a new wallet and what is the reason for that?

Sorry if this is all basic stuff.

Thanks

nc50lc

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Quote from: Yamo1123 on September 09, 2018, 03:53:14 PM

I was given vouchers by chipmixer as they ran out of chips recently so when I finally withdrew chips and imported the private keys to electrum the vouchers I used cannot be re used to view the keys.. so hopefully these used voucher references can be traced with chipmixer.

Hey, understand what Abdussamad said, importing the keys doesn't mean that's its exclusively in your control.
Either do what he said, make another wallet and send all your funds there or Sweep the keys, don't just import them.

Thirdspace

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Mixing reinvented for your privacy | chipmixer.com

Quote from: Yamo1123 on September 09, 2018, 03:53:14 PM

I was given vouchers by chipmixer as they ran out of chips recently so when I finally withdrew chips and imported the private keys to electrum the vouchers I used cannot be re used to view the keys.. so hopefully these used voucher references can be traced with chipmixer.

even so, you must have done it in a (new) mixing session to get the private key out
if you still haven't destroyed that session, you can still open it and check the private key
if you don't remember the session token, try checking your browser history for its url Wink

otherwise you need to ask ChipMixer on the issue by providing the used voucher code

BitMaxz

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Quote from: Yamo1123 on September 09, 2018, 03:53:14 PM

I was given vouchers by chipmixer as they ran out of chips recently so when I finally withdrew chips and imported the private keys to electrum the vouchers I used cannot be re used to view the keys.. so hopefully these used voucher references can be traced with chipmixer.

Thanks

Your problem looks the same as x31337 post from here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.42946742
If you are done importing the private key to electrum and restart without saving the private key I think the voucher code can't be re-used again, but you can request a new voucher again.

Yamo1123

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I was given vouchers by chipmixer as they ran out of chips recently so when I finally withdrew chips and imported the private keys to electrum the vouchers I used cannot be re used to view the keys.. so hopefully these used voucher references can be traced with chipmixer.

Thanks

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

@OP, if you still have your token and your session is unexpired, you should be able to put in your token and go to step 3 and get your private keys out...

Abdussamad

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The correct way to receive bitcoin is to have the sender send them to an address whose private keys only you know. Sharing private keys is not the way to transfer bitcoin because you don't have exclusive control and the sender can move the coins too.

I suggest going to file > recently open or file > open in case you imported the private keys into a different wallet. If you find the correct wallet I suggest creating a new standard wallet via file > new/restore and then sending your bitcoins to an address in that. This way only you will have the private keys that control the coins.

Topic: Chipmixer to Electrum private key import issue (Read 376 times)