Cleanup on isle 234 - Many (assumed) hacked accounts for sale

PrimeNumber7

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I PM’ed 10 of the first 11 OPs of the threads listed and the below is what I found:

One thread appears to be deleted, hence why I didn’t message him.

I received the below responses:

Quote from: USA.seller on May 04, 2019, 02:12:39 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on May 03, 2019, 10:41:37 PM

Hi,

I saw your thread selling accounts.

Before we discuss anything else, can you answer these questions for me:

Are they hacked?
Are they using a fake identity to get verified?
Was identity theft used to get the account verified?

Thanks.

Not hacked Account.
Stealth account

Contact us at
Telegram : @panelab
Or Skype

Quote from: lana11 on May 04, 2019, 10:31:44 AM

Hello. No, no hacking activities involved, it is not just the accounts, it is also documents. To ur second question. The documents are fully genuine, many use photoshop docs and ask for a small price, but my price is a bit high, surely u can understand why ,for example no UK citizens sell their docs and identity for a small price, which also answers your third question, the owners are completely aware that their docs is beeing used for only betting activity. I find eligible document owners, pay them about 70 percent of the total cost of the accout, and ask them to give me their id,selfie with id, and bill.

I hope i have addressed your concerns,
let me know what you think,
regards

Quote from: federicojames on May 04, 2019, 11:40:37 PM

They are created with real identity. They are not hacked account and each account has it own transaction histories. I can sell in bulk and single order.

Please let me know,

Thanks

The message I sent to all of them was:

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on May 03, 2019, 10:42:52 PM

Hi,

I saw your thread selling accounts.

Before we discuss anything else, can you answer these questions for me:

Are they hacked?
Are they using a fake identity to get verified?
Was identity theft used to get the account verified?

Thanks.

I was unable to message more than 10 people because of PMs hourly limitations and haven’t had the time to come back to message the rest.

The first guy claims he isn’t selling hacked accounts but doesn’t give an explanation required by the rules. The second person gave an explanation so I guess he is compliant with the rules. The third guy claims to not be selling hacked accounts, but doesn’t give an explanation and his ability to sell in “bulk” gives me specific reason to not believe him.

Even though the second guy appears compliant with the rules, I would be uncomfortable with these types of transactions occurring within my forum because even with the consent of the person whose identity is being used, laws are almost certainly being broken when the buyer uses the account and both the broker and buyer may be breaking laws by completing the transaction.

Here is the law regarding identity theft in CA and I believe even the second person that responded would be violating this law.

I didn’t receive any type of response from anyone else I messaged.

Pmalek

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 30, 2019, 06:21:57 AM

What are you talking about?

Not sure what you are confused about. I don't think those type of threads should have any place on bitcointalk.

This sums it up pretty good:

Quote from: vit05 on May 01, 2019, 10:04:55 PM

...letting the forum become a market for selling stolen documents and other services that are illegal in any country can have serious implications for the forum.

vit05

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I do not think negative trust is enough in these situations. If you put a negative trust on a user saying that he sells KYC and documents that were stolen, and that user offers exactly that service, you're just attesting the quality of that service.

I believe that in these situations the mods must interfere. Trust negative or positive are not enough. And letting the forum become a market for selling stolen documents and other services that are illegal in any country can have serious implications for the forum.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: tmfp on April 30, 2019, 06:41:04 AM

Quote from: AdolfinWolf on April 28, 2019, 12:27:43 PM

....
I mean apparently some legendaries actually think that buying ID's to pass KYC is a perfectly fine thing to do.. I'm not sure where exactly i would draw the line either though, (since KYC sucks major dick obviously..)..
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50445157

I followed that link and commented on it, which may or may not be helpful on this subject.

KYC accounts are assumed to be hacked unless an explanation is given.

There is an argument to say that selling KYC accounts is prohibited period because this could be construed as identity fraud.

tmfp

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"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."

Quote from: AdolfinWolf on April 28, 2019, 12:27:43 PM

....
I mean apparently some legendaries actually think that buying ID's to pass KYC is a perfectly fine thing to do.. I'm not sure where exactly i would draw the line either though, (since KYC sucks major dick obviously..)..
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50445157

I followed that link and commented on it, which may or may not be helpful on this subject.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: Pmalek on April 30, 2019, 05:44:25 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 30, 2019, 05:28:27 AM

...the moderator can make a judgment as to how realistic the explanation is and they can ask follow up questions, in your example they could ask how he is finding so many people willing to sell a PayPal account.

The problem is that mods don't monitor scams and trades. DT members tag scammers but they don't get banned by the mods unless they plagiarise, spam the boards or in other ways break forum rules. Unless scamming becomes a bannable offence the threads and users will still be here in the future.

Another thing.
Rule #17 states:

Quote

17. Trading of goods that are illegal in the seller's or buyer's country is forbidden.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/unofficial-list-of-official-bitcointalkorg-rules-guidelines-faq-703657

I am pretty sure there aren't any countries that allow the sale of bank accounts or credit cards and that is also against the TOS of sites like bet365 or Ebay etc. Maybe these threads can be reported as a violation of Rule #17.

What are you talking about? Read the OP. I clearly cited the rule the threads listed in the OP are breaking according to my reading of the rule.

Pmalek

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 30, 2019, 05:28:27 AM

...the moderator can make a judgment as to how realistic the explanation is and they can ask follow up questions, in your example they could ask how he is finding so many people willing to sell a PayPal account.

The problem is that mods don't monitor scams and trades. DT members tag scammers but they don't get banned by the mods unless they plagiarise, spam the boards or in other ways break forum rules. Unless scamming becomes a bannable offence the threads and users will still be here in the future.

Another thing.
Rule #17 states:

Quote

17. Trading of goods that are illegal in the seller's or buyer's country is forbidden.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/unofficial-list-of-official-bitcointalkorg-rules-guidelines-faq-703657

I am pretty sure there aren't any countries that allow the sale of bank accounts or credit cards and that is also against the TOS of sites like bet365 or Ebay etc. Maybe these threads can be reported as a violation of Rule #17.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: Pmalek on April 30, 2019, 05:16:47 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 29, 2019, 09:59:02 AM

In theory, someone could be a reseller from those who buys KYC accounts from real people, but the rule says unless an explanation is given it is *assumed* they are hacked. There has been no explanation given.

Even if there is an explanation it can still be a lie.
The seller can claim he is selling 5 Paypal accounts with permission from the original owners. He can even create fake conversations with the alleged owners in which they give him permission to sell the accounts. Fake screenshots etc... That is an explanation but a fake one!

Yes that’s possible. Once an explanation is given, the moderator can make a judgment as to how realistic the explanation is and they can ask follow up questions, in your example they could ask how he is finding so many people willing to sell a PayPal account.

Pmalek

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 29, 2019, 09:59:02 AM

In theory, someone could be a reseller from those who buys KYC accounts from real people, but the rule says unless an explanation is given it is *assumed* they are hacked. There has been no explanation given.

Even if there is an explanation it can still be a lie.
The seller can claim he is selling 5 Paypal accounts with permission from the original owners. He can even create fake conversations with the alleged owners in which they give him permission to sell the accounts. Fake screenshots etc... That is an explanation but a fake one!

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: Pmalek on April 28, 2019, 02:47:42 AM

If a user is selling 2 or more personal and KYC verified accounts they are 99% stolen or hacked because you only have 1 identity.

In theory, someone could be a reseller from those who buys KYC accounts from real people, but the rule says unless an explanation is given it is *assumed* they are hacked. There has been no explanation given.

Quote from: coinlocket$ on April 28, 2019, 11:38:21 AM

I tagged several of them but the problem is that they are coming back with new accounts, I think my tags are worthless there and need the power of the staff.

Even the ability to post with 10+ activity on that section can be useful.

Thank you for the help. I don't tagging will do much good. I think the buyers mostly know what they are buying. The more pressing question is if we want these type of people whose business is selling hacked KYC accounts to even be here. I think the answer is NO. Having these people here will only cause problems for other forum users.

Quote from: coinlocket$ on April 29, 2019, 08:54:17 AM

That section of the forum is a real mess.

I agree.

coinlocket$

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This is going out of control, mods should do something about this.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/buying-any-bet365-accounts-fully-verified-skrill-verified-2017083

They even start to spam on each other thread.

That section of the forum is a real mess.

AdolfinWolf

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Yeah, i've gone through a number of options through my head, (maybe it is a custodial account on someone else's name, like a shell company), etc, but it's most likely someone using other people's KYC info to create these accounts.

That became obvious after the same paypal sellers linked above asked people to sell their LBC & Paxful accounts verified through them. Huh

Quote from: Pmalek on April 28, 2019, 02:47:42 AM

If a user is selling 2 or more personal and KYC verified accounts they are 99% stolen or hacked because you only have 1 identity.
If someone is selling only 1 KYC verified account it should again be considered as stolen because what kind of person would be interested in selling his own paypal or bank account and have all that info released to unknown people over the internet?

These threads should not be allowed here.

I mean apparently some legendaries actually think that buying ID's to pass KYC is a perfectly fine thing to do.. I'm not sure where exactly i would draw the line either though, (since KYC sucks major dick obviously..)..
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50445157

Theb

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Quote from: Pmalek on April 28, 2019, 02:47:42 AM

If a user is selling 2 or more personal and KYC verified accounts they are 99% stolen or hacked because you only have 1 identity.
If someone is selling only 1 KYC verified account it should again be considered as stolen because what kind of person would be interested in selling his own paypal or bank account and have all that info released to unknown people over the internet?

These threads should not be allowed here.

I don't think that's necessary the case on all sellers here, if you look at the screens I have provided in my earlier post you will see that the seller all have the KYC documents ready as well as the Virtual Bank Account that comes with it, if this is the case they are either paying off real people to provide them their documents for the purposes of creating an account or they themselves are creating fake identities of people.

Quote from: coinlocket$ on April 28, 2019, 11:38:21 AM

I tagged several of them but the problem is that they are coming back with new accounts, I think my tags are worthless there and need the power of the staff.

Even the ability to post with 10+ activity on that section can be useful.

Yeah I saw that you have tagged a lot of them already and I only have provided a negative feedback on a single member which you have not tagged yet. But just to be honest tagging them won't hurt their business in any way while their threads are still existing in the forum their presence of their services will still be seen by potential buyers here in the forum. The only way to completely solve this is by removing/deleting their threads in the section.

coinlocket$

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I tagged several of them but the problem is that they are coming back with new accounts, I think my tags are worthless there and need the power of the staff.

Even the ability to post with 10+ activity on that section can be useful.

Pmalek

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Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

If a user is selling 2 or more personal and KYC verified accounts they are 99% stolen or hacked because you only have 1 identity.
If someone is selling only 1 KYC verified account it should again be considered as stolen because what kind of person would be interested in selling his own paypal or bank account and have all that info released to unknown people over the internet?

These threads should not be allowed here.

tmfp

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"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 26, 2019, 02:11:04 AM

Can a moderator look at the above threads, ban these users, and lock these threads if they are found to be breaking the rules?

A reasonable request.

Paging mods malevolent and EFS.....
Is this interpretation of Theymos' pinned post correct?
If not, why not?
If it is, why is that sub forum allowed to be such a dysfunctional shit hole?

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: Theb on April 27, 2019, 04:14:51 PM

Thanks @PrimeNumber7 I never thought that the Invites & Accounts section has this kind of shady shit going for a long time now.

I have been uninterested in the Digital goods sub, and the Invites sub for this very reason, but did not realize this is against the rules until now.

Theb

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I think the mods and the admins need to seriously take a look in this, I'm more worried about the buyers here since using accounts named to other persons besides their name technically is impersonation which is considered a felony in most of the countries, not only that the seller also provides literally everything from the necessary legal documents and even the Virtual Bank Account where you can withdraw your money in this things might look great when you are trying to have a verified account but this will just dig your graves deeper in the ground with the authorities. Thanks @PrimeNumber7 I never thought that the Invites & Accounts section has this kind of shady shit going for a long time now.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: Becky666 on April 26, 2019, 06:55:37 PM

Most of the accounts involved are red tagged already; why others are just Newbie accounts. The concern Moderators will execute their final decision on this.

The rule is that if you are selling something you obtained illegally, you will be banned, and this rule does not appear to be enforced.

In the ~2 days since this thread has been opened, it does not anyone cares about the 15 threads cited in the OP, and AFAICT, no action has been taken against any of them.

Becky666

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 26, 2019, 02:11:04 AM

Quote from: theymos

You are only allowed to sell accounts/invites that you legally obtained yourself or through legitimate trades. If you did anything illegal in order to obtain an item, then you can't trade it on bitcointalk.org. Anyone found breaking this rule will be banned.

I do not frequent this sub very frequently, but did so because of a complaint about the Digital Good sub I was reading.

From the look of things, these account found wanted on this rules should be Banned, based on the cited rules. Their services aren't legal because of KYC involvement, no man with their right senses will give out his/her identity in return for money, especially in this digital world. Possibly one can presume that, these accounts for sales are cracked|hacked account which is against the cited rules. Although, am simply judging base on the facts on ground, personally i won't sell out my identity, if not hacked or cracked.

Most of the accounts involved are red tagged already; why others are just Newbie accounts. The concern Moderators will execute their final decision on this.

Topic: Cleanup on isle 234 - Many (assumed) hacked accounts for sale (Read 550 times)