He confirmed it on the BFL thread referenced earlier. 56.25mm2. 7.5x7.5mm.
Thank you, that makes way more sense. Somebody please teach that man the difference between mm and mm2.
Topic: [CLOSED] BOUNTY: BFL SC die size (20BTC) and process node (20BTC) (Read 8694 times)
November 07, 2012, 09:26:14 PM
Thank you, that makes way more sense. Somebody please teach that man the difference between mm and mm2.
November 07, 2012, 09:21:02 PM
Check the comments section. BFL_Josh clears up the die size question.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/125-BFL-ASIC-Update
The die size is 7.5mm^2
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/125-BFL-ASIC-Update
The die size is 7.5mm^2
Hrm, that would be a square die less than 3mm on each side, which is pretty hard to wirebond and in a package that would be ridiculously oversized for it. OTOH there are sometimes power and thermal reasons for using an absurdly large package.
Can we get BFL_Josh to confirm that he didn't mean (7.5mm)^2 aka 56.25(mm^2)? He's transposed those two units before claiming the package was 11mm^2.
7.5(mm^2) isn't impossible, but 56.25(mm^2) is more plausible.
He confirmed it on the BFL thread referenced earlier. 56.25mm2. 7.5x7.5mm.
November 07, 2012, 09:17:36 PM
Check the comments section. BFL_Josh clears up the die size question.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/125-BFL-ASIC-Update
The die size is 7.5mm^2
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/125-BFL-ASIC-Update
The die size is 7.5mm^2
Hrm, that would be a square die less than 3mm on each side, which is pretty hard to wirebond and in a package that would be ridiculously oversized for it. There are sometimes power and thermal reasons for using an absurdly large package, but putting a 7.5(mm^2) die in an 11mmx11mm package means you're going to have bonding wires on the order of 4mm long on all sides -- at that point you have some serious inductance in the bond wires. Not saying it's impossible, but it certainly is unusual. That's the very upper limit of what MOSIS allows.
Can we get BFL_Josh to confirm that he didn't mean (7.5mm)^2 aka 56.25(mm^2)? He's transposed those two units before claiming the package was 11mm^2.
7.5(mm^2) isn't impossible, but 56.25(mm^2) is more plausible.
November 07, 2012, 08:33:55 AM
The die size is 7.5mm^2
Where's the source for that then?Check the comments section. BFL_Josh clears up the die size question.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/125-BFL-ASIC-Update
The die size is 7.5mm^2
November 07, 2012, 02:52:21 AM
Tell you guys what. I can confirm process node and die size if I can get a chip.
I can get the die size with XRD and process node with cross section SEM.
Anything thing else? # of Metals, bonding wire method, packaging durability,
well profile, die thickness
I can get the die size with XRD and process node with cross section SEM.
Anything thing else? # of Metals, bonding wire method, packaging durability,
well profile, die thickness
November 06, 2012, 07:26:05 PM
The die size is 7.5mm^2
Where's the source for that then? November 06, 2012, 07:25:34 PM
The die size is 7.5mm^2
November 06, 2012, 07:21:43 PM
Yes, sorry, 11mm x 11mm. My memory was thinking of something else.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1311322
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1311322
November 06, 2012, 07:14:14 PM
Didn't Josh say 3cm x 3cm, or was that external chip size, not die size?
Link?
I thought the package size was 11mmx11mm.
30x30 is huge.
November 06, 2012, 07:10:45 PM
Didn't Josh say 3cm x 3cm, or was that external chip size, not die size?
Link?
November 06, 2012, 07:09:06 PM
The information is apparently in Bitcoin Magazine, and subscribers have reported getting the magazine already. A quick readthrough and post is worth 40BTC.
No, because the bounty clearly states (and has stated since the very first day it was posted) that it is null and void if BFL releases the figures. BFL has released the process node, which is 65nm, so that bounty is no longer valid.
The die size bounty is still open.
November 06, 2012, 07:05:46 PM
The information is apparently in Bitcoin Magazine, and subscribers have reported getting the magazine already. A quick readthrough and post is worth 40BTC.
No, because the bounty clearly states (and has stated since the very first day it was posted) that it is null and void if BFL releases the figures. BFL has released the process node, which is 65nm, so that bounty is no longer valid.
The die size bounty is still open.
November 06, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
I'm going to guess BFL is using 65nm, seems to be a sweet spot between chip price, performance, and power consumption. Not that I really care though, I went with a manufacturer that's more transparent throughout the whole process(bASIC/cablepair/Tom).
November 06, 2012, 03:55:07 PM
Do you understand the reason for this thread and the reasons we're hoping you posted in this thread? Please enlighten us on the BFL article. Specifically the SC die size and/or process node.
Gracias.
A user on the BFL forums posted the entire article and it doesn't appear to contain any information about die size or process node. The only interesting thing it says is that BFL is considering a future, next generation ASIC offering that moves to a smaller 45nm process node, or possibly even smaller than that. So we know that the process node they're using is bigger than 45nm - which we could've guessed anyway - but that's it. Gracias.
November 05, 2012, 12:18:30 PM
I got my copy yesterday! hahahahahahaha!
I'm seriously impressed with the bitcoin mag. Once my ASIC arrives I know where I'll be spending some BTC.
As for the die size I just wanna say good choice! Efficient but room to grow.
So have you claimed the bounty?I'm seriously impressed with the bitcoin mag. Once my ASIC arrives I know where I'll be spending some BTC.
As for the die size I just wanna say good choice! Efficient but room to grow.
Nope.
The Magazine is really good and I would recommend buying it for more than getting a few more stats on BFL hardware. Good price point just about any small time miner like myself can afford it. It is a good way to help grow the btc economy.
Do you understand the reason for this thread and the reasons we're hoping you posted in this thread? Please enlighten us on the BFL article. Specifically the SC die size and/or process node.
Gracias.
November 05, 2012, 12:05:29 PM
Nope.
The Magazine is really good and I would recommend buying it for more than getting a few more stats on BFL hardware. Good price point just about any small time miner like myself can afford it. It is a good way to help grow the btc economy.
The Magazine is really good and I would recommend buying it for more than getting a few more stats on BFL hardware. Good price point just about any small time miner like myself can afford it. It is a good way to help grow the btc economy.
We would appreciate it if you would share the basic info, having it locked up in a dead-tree publication is stupid. We have little enough happening that I'd rather not see some huge game being played with a few people hoarding information just to act like trolls.
If they sell the magazine electronically (even for fiat) I'm there, but I get too much dead-tree as it is.
FYI, there is no moratorium on the info re: Josh.
Quote from: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/286-Bfl-i-know-all-your-secrets!?p=4015#post4015
Well I was hoping they would have a digital story on their website too. No moratorium though feel free to publish it.
November 05, 2012, 11:50:26 AM
I got my copy yesterday! hahahahahahaha!
I'm seriously impressed with the bitcoin mag. Once my ASIC arrives I know where I'll be spending some BTC.
As for the die size I just wanna say good choice! Efficient but room to grow.
So have you claimed the bounty?I'm seriously impressed with the bitcoin mag. Once my ASIC arrives I know where I'll be spending some BTC.
As for the die size I just wanna say good choice! Efficient but room to grow.
Nope.
The Magazine is really good and I would recommend buying it for more than getting a few more stats on BFL hardware. Good price point just about any small time miner like myself can afford it. It is a good way to help grow the btc economy.
November 04, 2012, 10:38:19 PM
I thought the bounty was nullified when the Magazine started hitting. See the last line:
BFL released the specs to Bitcoin Magazine who got to do an "Exclusive" on it. Now all the other Bitcoin Magazines can report on it too!
I will offer a 20BTC bounty to anybody who posts a measurement of the size of the die used in BFL's "SC" devices. I'm assuming they all use the same chip. It's really easy to get the die measurement from a broken device -- just grind off the plastic/ceramic top using a dremel and pull out a ruler. I will be happy to escrow the bounty with a well-known forum member if you can present credible evidence that you're serious about this -- that way you can be sure you'll get paid before you totally wreck your already-broken device.
I need this figure in order to compute the η-factor for their product.
I will also offer a 20BTC bounty for knowledge of which process node BFL is using. However, I caution in advance that it's not as easy to be 100% certain about that -- you can't just measure it with a ruler -- so claiming this bounty will be more difficult and will involve more verification (which might not even be possible) than the raw die-size bounty. Please post here if you have any questions about what would be sufficient to claim this bounty; I don't want any hard feelings.
I have offered bounties like this in the past and have a history of paying promptly.
Both of these bounties become null and void if BFL releases the figures themselves.
I need this figure in order to compute the η-factor for their product.
I will also offer a 20BTC bounty for knowledge of which process node BFL is using. However, I caution in advance that it's not as easy to be 100% certain about that -- you can't just measure it with a ruler -- so claiming this bounty will be more difficult and will involve more verification (which might not even be possible) than the raw die-size bounty. Please post here if you have any questions about what would be sufficient to claim this bounty; I don't want any hard feelings.
I have offered bounties like this in the past and have a history of paying promptly.
Both of these bounties become null and void if BFL releases the figures themselves.
BFL released the specs to Bitcoin Magazine who got to do an "Exclusive" on it. Now all the other Bitcoin Magazines can report on it too!
November 04, 2012, 06:12:10 PM
I got my copy yesterday! hahahahahahaha!
I'm seriously impressed with the bitcoin mag. Once my ASIC arrives I know where I'll be spending some BTC.
As for the die size I just wanna say good choice! Efficient but room to grow.
So have you claimed the bounty? I'm seriously impressed with the bitcoin mag. Once my ASIC arrives I know where I'll be spending some BTC.
As for the die size I just wanna say good choice! Efficient but room to grow.
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