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Topic: [CLOSED] GLBSE drama - page 5. (Read 17857 times)

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!
October 09, 2012, 08:38:30 AM
#98
Quote
If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

I don't know if it's illegal or not, like you said I'm just a mod. That's not the issue here. I care that he breached his contract multiple times and defrauded investors.

And I wasn't told anything, I was provided chat logs and everything else I asked for, and verified that Nefario was acting on his own, against the will of the shareholders, without so much as asking for their opinion, much less a shareholder vote.

You can believe what you want though, doesn't much matter to me. Just setting the record straight.

You are expert enough to adjudicate breach of contract when it comes time to brand one side in the internal GLBSE dispute as a scammer but suddenly confused and "just a moderator" when it comes to others.  Including Theymos who is a partner in GLBSE and admitted it was an unregulated black market and therefore illegal and then knowingly took action to sell shares in a product that was worthless due to the illegality right here on these forums.

You should moderate the actions of people who knowingly sell junk a investment on these forums, not go combing through the IRC logs of private illegal businesses to take sides in an internal dispute.  
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
October 09, 2012, 08:28:24 AM
#97
Quote
If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

Its closer to entrapment than anything. Its not like hes a fucking whistleblower.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!
October 09, 2012, 08:26:54 AM
#96
Quote
If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

We didnt know it was illegal at all. I didnt ask a lawyer before using bitcoin either.

Some clearly did, such as Theymos who was upset that Nefario would go to the authorities in relation to the criminal actions.  Regardless, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.  You are still responsible for the actions of the organization you were involved with.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128
October 09, 2012, 08:25:27 AM
#95
Quote
If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

I don't know if it's illegal or not, like you said I'm just a mod. That's not the issue here. I care that he breached his contract multiple times and defrauded investors.

And I wasn't told anything, I was provided chat logs and everything else I asked for, and verified that Nefario was acting on his own, against the will of the shareholders, without so much as asking for their opinion, much less a shareholder vote.

You can believe what you want though, doesn't much matter to me. Just setting the record straight.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
October 09, 2012, 08:20:49 AM
#94
Quote
If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

We didnt know it was illegal at all. I didnt ask a lawyer before using bitcoin either.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!
October 09, 2012, 08:10:21 AM
#93
Quote
If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128
October 09, 2012, 07:59:24 AM
#92
Maged- what say you? Does he get a scammer tag for his involvement in this? Do the other owners of GBLSE get the scammer tag for the exact same reasons as nefario?

You seem to be mistaken about why Nefario got the scammer tag, it's not at all comparable.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1258773
donator
Activity: 151
Merit: 100
Assholier-than-thou retard magnet
October 09, 2012, 05:25:05 AM
#91
That, or commit to moving to the first forum that has the features that are outlined here : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/looking-for-someone-to-createmodify-software-for-this-forum-5500-btc-50617

If the forum is dependent on features and not content, then it is not worthwhile.  You might as well go to Iggy Planet and set up shop there.

If you make excuses not to improve your life, you will always make the safe choice, and that path leads down to stagnation.

There is a bitcoin stackexchange beta, and as mentioned, /r/bitcoin.  The advantage of these over SMF is that you can smash people's arguments into invisibility by voting them down.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
October 09, 2012, 04:59:02 AM
#90

I guess $3,000 wasn't enough to get the new forum up and running. I'll assume it's still in escrow somewhere.

~Bruno~


More like $35,000

Note to self: Never do math on this laptop when reading this forum after waking up from a wet dream to take an early morning long shit.

I just checked to see how I erred and realized there was no math involved. It was during the quote/snip stage where I saw all those s's in the strikethrough tags and must have envisioned them as the dollar sign. I can't wait to finish this shit to get back to my wet dream.

Fine! $35K then. I can't wait to join.

~Bruno~
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 09, 2012, 04:41:37 AM
#89


I guess $3,000 wasn't enough to get the new forum up and running. I'll assume it's still in escrow somewhere.

~Bruno~


More like $35,000
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
October 09, 2012, 04:37:39 AM
#88
That, or commit to moving to the first forum that has the features that are outlined here : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/looking-for-someone-to-createmodify-software-for-this-forum-5500-btc-50617

I remember that thread.




The forum has about 650 760 920 1120 1720 2267 3000 BTC on hand at this moment, but you can bid more than that. If your bid is the best, I'll just wait until the forum has collected the required amount of money.




I guess $3,000 wasn't enough to get the new forum up and running. I'll assume it's still in escrow somewhere.

~Bruno~
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
www.bitcointrading.com
October 09, 2012, 03:04:01 AM
#87
That, or commit to moving to the first forum that has the features that are outlined here : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/looking-for-someone-to-createmodify-software-for-this-forum-5500-btc-50617
Well, if you're looking for a forum run by actual human beings and one that will see upgrades and enhancements on a regular basis, not just new limitations, you should be considering us at www.bitcointrading.com!  Now running on a dedicated server, 861 members and counting!
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 09, 2012, 02:20:42 AM
#86
That, or commit to moving to the first forum that has the features that are outlined here : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/looking-for-someone-to-createmodify-software-for-this-forum-5500-btc-50617
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
October 09, 2012, 02:10:30 AM
#85
Well, give us a link and we'll check it out. But the problem with starting a new forum is getting a returning user base that contributes. It's the same network effect that is now giving bitcoin its strength. Because of the permutations of the participants, the power of a network is proportional to the square of the nodes, and right now bitcointalk has the most power in that regard, with /r/bitcoin probably in second place.

Setting up the software for a forum is the easy part. Getting the community is an art.

You could easily set up a forum where you pay $10 to join, where the mods will drop the hammer if they even smell a whiff of scams, ponzis, cargo cult securities, furries, Atlas or dank.  Then you could have a solid community of people actually trying to make bitcoin into something useful, instead of the infinite loop of scams and scam accusations.

Or make it into a massive brain trust that makes the biggest ponzi in bitcoin history.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
www.bitcointrading.com
October 09, 2012, 01:54:00 AM
#84
Who's going to make the forum?

Will BitVPN host it?

http://www.bitcointrading.com/  Smiley  come one come all Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
firstbits.com/1kznfw
October 09, 2012, 01:40:43 AM
#83
Well, give us a link and we'll check it out. But the problem with starting a new forum is getting a returning user base that contributes. It's the same network effect that is now giving bitcoin its strength. Because of the permutations of the participants, the power of a network is proportional to the square of the nodes, and right now bitcointalk has the most power in that regard, with /r/bitcoin probably in second place.

Setting up the software for a forum is the easy part. Getting the community is an art.
donator
Activity: 151
Merit: 100
Assholier-than-thou retard magnet
October 09, 2012, 12:51:48 AM
#82
Well fuck me, I agree with LG... for once! Hats off to you sir. This whole thing is compromised. Where do we congregate next BTC community?

One should examine what is broken about this one before repeating the same mistakes.

Is it this forum, is it the leadership of this forum, is it a personality type, is it ...because bitcoin?

Again, I am a big fan of federated autonomous units.  With PGP auth, one can have the same account on multiple forum sites.  No need for SSO, OAuth, OpenID, etc.

If you're fans of Ted Nelson's ideas with Xanadu, you'll understand where I'm coming from.  I'd be happy to host sites on "fuck you, that's why," hardware innovation (although I think the per-vendor sites are a smart move), compliance (tax and legal), ideology and propaganda, and meta-forum-platform development, but I don't want to touch buying and selling, "exchanges," "securities," and all that other mess.  I'm sure someone who is interested in those topics and willing to accept the risks would pick those up.

And I'm not saying,"these belong to me," with that list.  I'm hoping that several people with both development (whether product management, execution, testing, design) ability and hosting capability will be able to step up and contribute to their area(s) of interest.

Think stackexchange, with a more suitable structure, and not owned by the same entity.  But bitcoin.

Let a million fora boom.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 09, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
#81
Who's going to make the forum?

Will BitVPN host it?
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Portland Bitcoin Group Organizer
October 09, 2012, 12:31:22 AM
#80
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
October 09, 2012, 12:25:01 AM
#79
In that case you'll have to wait till the partners sue nefario for destroying all the value of glbse. Because for damn sure it wasn't us who shut it down and confiscated everyones bitcoins.

First you say to calm down and that all our coins are safe and to be returned imminently.  Now you say we'll have to wait on a lawsuit.  Which is it then?

I was replying to Loup bringing up further damages.

The customers coins have got nothing to do with it.
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