Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx - page 36. (Read 316363 times)

Some expenses are based on USD value. Others could be a fixed rate, or a percentage of profit (couldn't find any details on them, but then again I didn't look too hard). That's up to Erik to decide and fill us in on (not disagreeing with you on that).

And I know it hasn't been rewarding (at least long term), and as the price in BTC increased I figured that may be the case in the end. I sold near the peak and bought again when it was quite low...and then sold again recently. Profit-wise, I'm fine...and I'm thankful I didn't buy and hold (even though, in a financial sense, I'd very much like to).

No, for THIS month, we don't know if the expenses are contracted in USD terms or BTC. If for example BTC rise to $1000, then monthly profit will probably fall to 500 BTC or less range, how would you like half of shareholder profits are eaten up in "expense"? Being a S.Dice shareholder was not particularly rewarding recently, wouldn't you agree? your S.Dice share price is 50% of 2 month ago.

Disclosure: Those expenses account for less than 5% of gross profit for the month...though transparency would be nice, EV has no obligation to provide such information. I owned more than 20k shares in S.Dice...if you don't like the way the company is run, sell your shares.

Let me break it down for you all:

For April:
Earnings   3813.93462751   btc  (yay loot)
Hosting/Tech Expenses   12.2   btc  (the only real expense)
Head IT April Pro-Rated   52.945   btc  (money paid to erik for running sdice)
Systems operator   91.7   btc  (money paid to erik's buddy for "advice", with possibly kick back to erik)
Legal   25.51   btc  (money paid to erik for running sdice)
IP Rights to SatoshiRoller   40.46   btc   (money paid to erik's shell company PER MONTH for creating a piece of shit desktop client that nearly nobody uses)
Loss Carryover   0   btc
---------------------------------
Net Profit   3591.11962751


Disclosure: Just a joke, but we need more transparency and detail about these "expenses" and they seem to be pretty high. I own more than 30k shares in S.Dice

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. I thought it was part of the Satoshi dice website.

Still IP rights can make or break a company. Think Microsoft who kept the IP rights of the operating system made for IBM. IBM used all his fame and wealth to promote and spread it but Microsoft ended up getting the fruits.  

I'm curious to know how this IP deal is setup.

It should also be considered by shareholders that this client has shown how it makes the business much more resilient. For example, when the domain expired and was taken offline bets continued to be processed. Most likely some of those bets were processed through the custom client interacting directly with the blockchain without needing the domain.

Well this is quite a different thing, and probably legitimate. The OP was going off the appalling deep end etc.

@miscreanity what you say is true, the operator is not obliged to answer; still, in general transparency is a good idea as much as practicable.


Because as miscreanity explains MPEx shares are non-voting, the operator is also required to maintain 50% of shares in his possession at all times. This means that only the dividends paid to half the shares are actually reported by MPEx, as for instance:


This system allows the investors to verify each month that no excess shares are floating on the exchange.

The 3591 satoshi per share figure is consistent with the total profit (3591.1196275 BTC) divided by the total number of shares (100,000,000). The total dividend paid out (1,795.55981375 BTC) is consistent with the sum due to 50,000,000 shares.

Dooglus lists total income (3760.48177700), from which some expenses have been subtracted, discussed above.

Hi!

Could somebody tell me what the relation between SD profits and its dividends on MPEx is?

Looking at what dooglus posted
and what shows up on MPEx
I don't see the connection too clearly, as the ratio has changed : 445 / 1166 is not 1795 / 3760  

Thanks in advance!

Yes, transparency is a key factor of investment, but SD shares are non-voting.


Source: MPEx SatoshiDice prospectus

The policies of the business therefore remain the matter of the operators, not the shareholders. Whatever disclosures are made will be done so at the discretion of said operators; it effectively remains a privately-operated company.

If there is disagreement with how SD is being run, the available options are to either not buy shares, or sell currently-held shares. Discussion regarding SD is an entirely separate matter; i.e. existing shareholders weigh the benefits of holding vs. selling without having say in how the business is run, while potential investors analyze the past, present, and future value (including deciding whether surrounding discussion is legitimate or superfluous) to arrive at a decision.

As for the custom client, does it afford a direct method of acquiring BTC through BitInstant? Such an app might even have an easier time passing Apple approval, since it wouldn't involve an exchange, but simply an in-app purchase. Also, while a Bitcoin exchange rate increase might be detrimental to the Bitcoin-denominated SD share value, I see a custom client having the potential to grow faster than the deflationary effect - at least for a little while after the client hits a full-featured production release.

The problem is when new expenses pop up without an explanation. Why was the IP rights charge only applied this month? SatoshiRoller was introduced months ago. How are you calculating the services / fees paid?

This is about transparency, not about wanting satoshidice to run off no expenses.

The custom client has been available in beta for a while now
I think it is quite nice and I use it whenever I play SatoshiDice
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/update-satoshidice-android-and-desktop-apps-open-beta-v11-124093
//DeaDTerra

Is that one of those secret projects being available soon ?

I have to side with the lady here. I recently opened a new asset offering up for discussion and it only took a few hours before someone questioned me taking a management fee of 5% of dividends, which currently amounts to about 1% yearly of the actual value of the asset.

If you want McDonald's employees running your assets, then your assets might start to appear on the dollar menu.

Satoshi Roller is a custom Bitcoin client designed to play Satoshi Dice.

Without prejudice to the actual numbers, which Erik is welcome to explain (I have no connection/inside information), I'd like to point out the insanity of the Bitcoin peanut gallery. On one hand the "expectation" is that Bitcoin corps "aren't cheap" and don't do things like "the cheapest OVH package". Generally speaking all food eaten must be top quality because that's just how the Bitcoin peasantry rolls, nothing but hermeline and sable (since birth!!!).

If it ever comes to the actual bills being presented, however, that same peanut gallery suddenly changes shape and composition. Everybody has been living so far out of whatever food scraps they found under their own fingernails (since birth!!!) and there's no conceivable good reason for things to go any other way.

This cannot work, and I suspect one of the reasons you don't see revenue reports from virtually anyone other than MPEx-backed people is that pretty much everyone without MPEx backing is scared shitless of you idiots and this time of idiocy.

Go suck on a doughnut you found (in its original wrapper!!!) behind a police station. Programmers cost money, and $100 an hour is more common than hairs on your mom, and this sort of inane bullshit has to go (preferably, and if at all possible, alongside you yourselves, Bitcoin isn't for either idiots or poor people). Or to quote myself (from earlier in this very thread),


Read that entire post, it'll benefit.

Sure, but a little more transparency wouldn't hurt either.

Dude, you are overeacting. SD having pro-staff is a good thing.

Thinking the same thing...

But again, no word for almost a week...

This has got to be a joke...

For April:
Earnings   3813.93462751   btc
Hosting/Tech Expenses   12.2   btc
Head IT April Pro-Rated   52.945   btc
Systems operator   91.7   btc
Legal   25.51   btc
IP Rights to SatoshiRoller   40.46   btc   
Loss Carryover   0   btc
---------------------------------
Net Profit   3591.11962751


The pro-rated Head IT expenses ( max cap/52.945 )..So $5000/52.945 btc = $94.4376 average price... April was below $100/btc for maximum 5 days.  You're not averaging the month because March's average was higher than $50/btc. Which does not correlate with the 100 btc payment.

And now you're adding another Systems operator...whos (cap?) is $8660..If you're using the same averaging technique as above...It seems like your just letting 'The Ghost of Satoshi roll the dice and pick a Lucky Number' that you claim as the fee's.

This is appalling.

Erik,

There is a new cost charged for April: 'SatoshiRoller IP rights'

I was under the impression SD owned the IP rights themselves. How high will these IP costs be over time?

hello erik I am the moderator of reddits /r/litecoin board. My traffic stats have been exploding this month so either litecoin is a really big fad or the market wants it to stick around. how difficult would it be to add litecoin support to satoshidice?

Soooo March's system operator fee (100btc) shouldn't be deducting the full 100 btc from the sites net profit? Half the month of march was above $50/btc...And don't tell me you pay at the start of each month...Not only because that would be a ill advised move but also because that would set the precedent for a much much smaller payment for the first of April (~$100/btc)

I'm sorry for being so picky about all this business that's going on, but if I could see some proof of what your claiming instead of finding proof that discounts what you've claimed then my mind would be at ease... Also you missed out the comment about the project...even if it is that you're still unwilling to disclose anything about it... If it's that top secret I hope your promises are more than that of a politicians.