Topic: CoinLenders Lawsuit - page 7. (Read 25376 times)

CL:71.59228854      in

1.05Btc in CL , still no reply from 3 e-mails.

Great news, just send you an email.

Following balance

gog1:9.80594344

I refused his settlement proposal as I would get only 10% back and consider I deposit those coin post hack, I find that unacceptable.  Does accepting coins post hack be classified as a fraud or not.

Interesting developments:

I emailed Tf today and advised him that if he did not report that a crime had been committed to Australian Law Enforcement within 48hrs. that I would do so.
It was a surprise to me but he responded promptly that he would do so and followed up with a reference number filed with NSW police. Of course a group of us will follow up on this to make sure law enforcement follows through on all aspects!

Agreed, you make a lot of good points here.  It sounds like unless we can get someone to fund this lawsuit, it's probably not likely to happen. 

You need to think about what outcome you want.  There's little doubt that TF has broken financial services laws and likely taxation laws as well, but generally speaking the penalties for such offences are financial so pursuing that avenue isn't going to help people recover their funds.  

If he's in NSW (which current information suggests), you can start with NSW Fair Trading but that won't go anywhere unless they can contact him - it will, however, document stuff and that could be important down the track.

As far as law enforcement goes, it comes down to whether there's sufficient evidence to prove that a crime (as defined by the Crimes Act) occurred and who would have jurisdiction.  Law enforcement can force Telstra to disgorge information related to the IP (which may or may not prove useful).  Generally speaking, if the crime occurred in NSW then they would have jurisdiction but it can get a bit complicated when federal laws may have also been broken and when events pertaining to the crime may have occurred offshore.  

I'd ask any solicitor you consult the best way to proceed if you intend getting law enforcement to investigate (international investigations always start with reporting stuff to our state police, who then contact the appropriate international law enforcement agencies).  The fact that TF spoke to the SMH about his incident could be helpful as it's publicly locked him into a particular version of events.  Obviously, you need to tell law enforcement that you believe he's lying and that he actually stole the BTC himself or arranged for someone else to do so and that his failure to report the theft supports your suspicion.

You're probably not going to want to hear this, but if you cannot prove fraud or other criminal activity, then there aren't likely to be much in the way of meaningful consequences.  Personal bankruptcy isn't a big particularly deal here, especially if you're young, and it's the most likely outcome of taking civil action against TF (if fraud can be proven, the debt can't be discharged in bankruptcy).  Obviously, a criminal conviction for fraud or theft would have longer term consequences for TF but it wouldn't necessarily help people get their funds back.  I guess a lot depends on whether you're interested in causing him grief in general or only in trying to recover your funds.


That's not the issue.  The big issue is that you'd need a litigation funder for a group action and they typically fund commercial cases, not actions against individuals who likely don't have the capacity to pay an award and who can just declare bankruptcy (or fuck off overseas and not return) at any time.  


It's based on things like the strength of the case, the expenses in mounting it (these would be significant as they'd need considerable expert testimony), the likelihood of a judgement being easily enforced (when you're up against a huge corporation, you KNOW they have the capacity to pay), etc.  Only specialised lawyers are capable of assessing each of those factors.

$1.5 million is a shockingly low pay day for lawyers in a class action, although it's doubtful the case would run for any length of time as TF likely doesn't have the funds to mount a defence.  I think one of your biggest problems is going to be convincing lawyers/litigation funders that they're ever going to see any money - what can they actually seize in order to get their 25 or 40%?

But the price is volatile. We can't guarantee that the price will remain 5million for very long.

If the only real issue here is price, I'd say all we have to do is wait.  The 4100 "hacked" bitcoins are already worth $3.5 million.  The price of bitcoin would have to go up about $269 for this stash to be worth more than $5 million.  If this were a normal stock, I'd say eh, that'll be a while.  But the price of bitcoin has gone up about $170 or so just in the last couple days.

But I think you've got a good point with the rest of what you're saying.  That said, I don't really expect the attorneys to do this case for free.  I remember dwdoc said they do this for 25% - 45%.  I wish that could be clarified a bit, 45% is a rather large chunk out of the stash, but I'd personally happily fork over 25% to the attorneys to be able to have the other 75% back.

Don't get me wrong, I'd much prefer the full 100% back.  But these days, it's looking like a choice between 55% or 75%.  The 45% cut really seems way too high to me, but I think 25% is fairly reasonable.  They'd be making plenty of money here, since that's $1.25 million at ten minutes ago's prices ($971).

This all assumes I can fund my share of the case out of the bitcoins that would be recovered.  If I have to fund them out of pocket, I don't really think it'd be worth the hassle, at least for me.  Might be for others who have more money in Coinlenders, however.

You may be right.  The latest advice from the attorney is to try and get law enforcement involved either prior to or along side a civil action.

I get into it with TF every post we see of eachothers. TF needs to man up and fix problems, I mean when a whole thread is devoted to polling wether or not someone is a scammer and 50% of the people who voted claim hes a scammer...... looks, acts and walks like  a duck

Fuck it, I'm in. TF doesn't seem to even remotely try to resolve the issue and with the current BTC price legal action starts to get worthwhile even for smaller deposits.

CL balance ~2.27 BTC, I also got a couple BTCInvest shares.

Also interested, around 1 BTC on Coinlenders.
Tradefortress hasn't responded to me. No settlement.

Interested  CL 3.0032 coins

Interested.

Now the evidence combined with tf silence is pointing to an outright scam of funds criminal proceedings are far more realistic, regardless of the nature.

Anyone from Australia invested here?

Looking at the interest on here and the interest I have recieved via PM and the price of a single bitcoin...

We have exceeded the target.

I am still waiting to hear back from some of the significant depositors as well. sent you an update doc.

They are gone and have no responded to anyone thus far.

I'm in. My CL Balance is 13.79260958 BTC

If there is anything that can be done about a scam it should be done.
Therefor I'm interested. My balance at CL is 42.78068979.

Class actions are a specialised area and in the end it's the litigation funders you need to convince.

IMF only funds commercial cases where the claim exceeds $5 million (I'm actually part of their class action against Australian banks).

While it's possible that there are lawyers who'd like to become the go-to people for Bitcoin related stuff, I'm not sure this is a particularly attractive case for them.  Class actions are expensive and time consuming and if you want to "make a name" for yourself you need to be able to win large awards which can actually be enforced.  A "victory" in this case could well be pyrrhic because it's not clear that TF would have any capacity to pay by the time the case was settled (especially if evidence of criminal wrong-doing emerges).

If you were a lawyer looking to make your name in the Bitcoin world, it would probably be in the area of fighting financial services regulations being applied in ways which send "legitimate" Bitcoin enterprises broke rather than trying to sue for the recovery of funds from shady businesses and individuals who have lost or stolen user funds.