Topic: CoinTerra announces its first ASIC - Hash-Rate greater than 500 GH/s - page 9. (Read 231002 times)
May 13, 2014, 12:09:19 PM
IF anyone in California wants to join the Class Action Suit agiast CT plz PM.
May 13, 2014, 12:09:49 AM
LOL did you guys see the news from cointerra.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
Hey newguy
the 'gig' may not be quite so 'up' as there was something missing from your comparison.
cex.io doesn't just charge to buy the gh's.. they ALSO charge per month to host them for you (you have to pay extra for hosting, power, repairs, maintenance etc) and you neglected to mention this 'monthly' charge in your comparison.
cex.io's price doesn't include hosting (which is a major part of the cost if you're going to operate long-term and not just trade it). cointerra's price was an all inclusive price including hosting for either 12 or 24 months whereas cex.io charges extra each month for the hosting (see https://cex.io/maintenance )
re-running your example again with 24 months to show the true (long-term) costs of bitcoin mining...
cex.io, 2 TH/s, buy price is 0.007 btc ($3.08 at today's btc price of $440) plus 24 months of hosting (currently $0.26/gh) = $9.32/gh (total paid for 24 month contract is $18,640)
cointerra 2 TH/s, buy price for 24 months - all inclusive of hosting - is $11,999 (a big saving over cex.io). even if it was only for 12 months, cointerra is still cheaper than cex.io
but why stop at 2 TH/s... we should try the same math for 100 TH/s (cointerra gives volume discounts, whereas cex.io being a 'true market' of buyers and sellers would mean the price goes up the more you buy and you'd be severely penalised for buying a larger amount)
cex.io, $308K to buy the 100 TH (in reality it'd cost much more to buy it this way), plus $26k per month in hosting for 24 months ($624k) = total of $932K (just shy of $1m!)
whereas cointerra's 100 TH hosted for 24 months is less than half the price at $450k (well under $0.5m!)
You can similarly compare the hosted prices of other cloud hashing companies like nimbusmining.com (butterflylabs) who charges $20/gh... or cloudhashing ($8-9/gh) compared to cex.io's $9.32 and cointerra's $6/gh (for 2 TH 24 mnth) or $4.5/gh (for 100 TH 24 mnth)
You idiot, I paid $6000 for a crappy miner which broke just 3 weeks into mining and lost 2 weeks of mining. Then again after 10 days its broke again. Not to mention I lost 20% of hashing power as well with no compensation of any kind.
Do you really think anyone cares what you have to say after they have played with people's hard earned money?
May 12, 2014, 03:51:12 PM
Lengthy crapterra cheer!
tl;dr
The other guys are even bigger scams.
May 12, 2014, 03:44:52 PM
LOL did you guys see the news from cointerra.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
Hey newguy
the 'gig' may not be quite so 'up' as there was something missing from your comparison.
cex.io doesn't just charge to buy the gh's.. they ALSO charge per month to host them for you (you have to pay extra for hosting, power, repairs, maintenance etc) and you neglected to mention this 'monthly' charge in your comparison.
cex.io's price doesn't include hosting (which is a major part of the cost if you're going to operate long-term and not just trade it). cointerra's price was an all inclusive price including hosting for either 12 or 24 months whereas cex.io charges extra each month for the hosting (see https://cex.io/maintenance )
re-running your example again with 24 months to show the true (long-term) costs of bitcoin mining...
cex.io, 2 TH/s, buy price is 0.007 btc ($3.08 at today's btc price of $440) plus 24 months of hosting (currently $0.26/gh) = $9.32/gh (total paid for 24 month contract is $18,640)
cointerra 2 TH/s, buy price for 24 months - all inclusive of hosting - is $11,999 (a big saving over cex.io). even if it was only for 12 months, cointerra is still cheaper than cex.io
but why stop at 2 TH/s... we should try the same math for 100 TH/s (cointerra gives volume discounts, whereas cex.io being a 'true market' of buyers and sellers would mean the price goes up the more you buy and you'd be severely penalised for buying a larger amount)
cex.io, $308K to buy the 100 TH (in reality it'd cost much more to buy it this way), plus $26k per month in hosting for 24 months ($624k) = total of $932K (just shy of $1m!)
whereas cointerra's 100 TH hosted for 24 months is less than half the price at $450k (well under $0.5m!)
You can similarly compare the hosted prices of other cloud hashing companies like nimbusmining.com (butterflylabs) who charges $20/gh... or cloudhashing ($8-9/gh) compared to cex.io's $9.32 and cointerra's $6/gh (for 2 TH 24 mnth) or $4.5/gh (for 100 TH 24 mnth)
May 12, 2014, 02:40:09 PM
LOL did you guys see the news from cointerra.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
yep. they delivered underspec garbage for 6K. the lawsuits are coming, and that will be the end of that....
Class action I hope?
May 12, 2014, 02:13:12 PM
LOL did you guys see the news from cointerra.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
yep. they delivered underspec garbage for 6K. the lawsuits are coming, and that will be the end of that....
May 12, 2014, 01:56:57 PM
LOL did you guys see the news from cointerra.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
Why not, hashfast seems to have declared bankruptcy after stealing all they could.
http://ia902509.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.canb.522575/gov.uscourts.canb.522575.1.0.pdf
How far behind can crapterra, bfl, and vmc be? US manufacturers seem to be formed to do business just long enough to grab all they can before folding up shop.
Edit: It seems likely hashfast did not declare bankruptcy. That this filing is an involuntary bankruptcy filing from hashfast's creditors.
May 12, 2014, 01:51:47 PM
LOL did you guys see the news from cointerra.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
They are now offering 1-2 year mining contracts. 12 month contract for 2TH cost $8000, which is 0.009 btc/gh (8000/440/2000). That's 30% more expensive than cex.io (already overpriced), only lasts 12 months, and doesnt have a market to be easily traded like cex.
What a joke, those guys should just fold shop. Gig is up.
May 07, 2014, 10:39:17 PM
I just got back my unit from repair a week ago and it has started acting up again. Can't do jack but watch it whine and bitch like a baby due to the warranty seal etc. I can't understand how it has any issues performing in a nice air conditioned closed dust free environment.
It was built by retarded scammers?
May 07, 2014, 10:36:14 PM
I just got back my unit from repair a week ago and it has started acting up again. Can't do jack but watch it whine and bitch like a baby due to the warranty seal etc. I can't understand how it has any issues performing in a nice air conditioned closed dust free environment.
May 07, 2014, 02:18:30 PM
I have to clean my unit every month, however if you do this you void the worthless warranty , CT TMIV design is awful.
May 06, 2014, 01:12:24 PM
quick question: whats again the warranty for the terraminers? 3 months??
i think i will have to open mine cause it looks very dirty inside and its overheating.
a vacuum cleaner placed up close to the fans should do the trick. if you've got a good one that has a hose attachment so you can point it directly at the fans (like a dyson...) that should work.
-- jez
Well if there is any lint in there a vacuum will do you no good cause of the screen on the fans. And if it has any lint in it and you hit the back side of the unit with compressed air to clean the radiators its going to cause the lint to swirl around in the unit and stick together then you will have patches of lint on the radiators when you start it back up. Been there done that!
Edit: As for the warranty it was 90 days but now I think its 30. So I guess it would depend on when you got it.
May 06, 2014, 08:19:16 AM
will give it a try
nevertheless whats the warranty frame? 3 months?
May 06, 2014, 08:05:13 AM
quick question: whats again the warranty for the terraminers? 3 months??
i think i will have to open mine cause it looks very dirty inside and its overheating.
a vacuum cleaner placed up close to the fans should do the trick. if you've got a good one that has a hose attachment so you can point it directly at the fans (like a dyson...) that should work.
-- jez
May 06, 2014, 08:03:30 AM
quick question: whats again the warranty for the terraminers? 3 months??
i think i will have to open mine cause it looks very dirty inside and its overheating.
May 03, 2014, 03:09:16 AM
Well, let's estimate what the marginal cost of a completed TerraMiner IV is, not counting NRE costs.
1) According to this study, a wafer from a fab costs between $2000 and $4000:
https://server1.tepper.cmu.edu/seminars/docs/BKM_semicon.pdf
2) According to this picture(http://cointerra.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/photo5.jpg), Cointerra gets about
(# of chips, length-wise)^2 * (Ratio of square area to circular area)
= 28 * 28 * (0.78)
= 611 chips per wafer
Therefore, the marginal cost per chip
= (Cost of wafer) / (# of chips per wafer)
= $4000 / 611
= $6 per chip
3) That means the marginal cost of *just the chips* in a TerraMiner IV is:
(#chips per TM IV) * (cost per chip)
= (4*4) * ($6)
= $96
4) Approximate the cost of all the components of the chip, plus the marginal cost of the circuit board creation:
VRMs:
Digikey has something quite like what they're probably using for $8:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/IR3551MTRPBF/IR3551MTRPBFTR-ND/3770518
Therefore, the cost is:
(8*4) * ($8)
= $256
Two power supplies @~$300 each:
https://www.verical.com/#searchCriterion=mpnIDs&searchName=&landingPage=catalogItemView&searchTerm=295479&_i_=2
2*$300
= $600
Cooling components:
4 * (water blocks) + radiator + fans
4 * ($50) + $50 radiator + $20 fans
= $270
Circuit board marginal cost:
$100 * 2
(I don't have a good idea of this)
= $200
Miscellaneous capacitors, resistors, and other components:
$100?
The beaglebone black:
$100
The case
$50?
Total:
265 + 600 + 270 + 200 + 100 + 100 + 50
= $1585
5) Therefore a pretty rough guess on the cost of a unit below which Cointerra is actually losing money is $1600. Even if the cost estimate of the chips is an order of magnitude off, the price can still drop $1000 (i.e. go to $2600) and maintain a slim profit. Remember, these are *just* the material costs. The cost of doing business is *way* high than these costs - salaries, software, rent, etc. are huge for this kind of operation. The prices they've been charging have been recouping these costs in theory.
1) According to this study, a wafer from a fab costs between $2000 and $4000:
https://server1.tepper.cmu.edu/seminars/docs/BKM_semicon.pdf
2) According to this picture(http://cointerra.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/photo5.jpg), Cointerra gets about
(# of chips, length-wise)^2 * (Ratio of square area to circular area)
= 28 * 28 * (0.78)
= 611 chips per wafer
Therefore, the marginal cost per chip
= (Cost of wafer) / (# of chips per wafer)
= $4000 / 611
= $6 per chip
3) That means the marginal cost of *just the chips* in a TerraMiner IV is:
(#chips per TM IV) * (cost per chip)
= (4*4) * ($6)
= $96
4) Approximate the cost of all the components of the chip, plus the marginal cost of the circuit board creation:
VRMs:
Digikey has something quite like what they're probably using for $8:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/IR3551MTRPBF/IR3551MTRPBFTR-ND/3770518
Therefore, the cost is:
(8*4) * ($8)
= $256
Two power supplies @~$300 each:
https://www.verical.com/#searchCriterion=mpnIDs&searchName=&landingPage=catalogItemView&searchTerm=295479&_i_=2
2*$300
= $600
Cooling components:
4 * (water blocks) + radiator + fans
4 * ($50) + $50 radiator + $20 fans
= $270
Circuit board marginal cost:
$100 * 2
(I don't have a good idea of this)= $200
Miscellaneous capacitors, resistors, and other components:
$100?
The beaglebone black:
$100
The case
$50?
Total:
265 + 600 + 270 + 200 + 100 + 100 + 50
= $1585
5) Therefore a pretty rough guess on the cost of a unit below which Cointerra is actually losing money is $1600. Even if the cost estimate of the chips is an order of magnitude off, the price can still drop $1000 (i.e. go to $2600) and maintain a slim profit. Remember, these are *just* the material costs. The cost of doing business is *way* high than these costs - salaries, software, rent, etc. are huge for this kind of operation. The prices they've been charging have been recouping these costs in theory.
i think you're light on some of the costs. the ones that stick out, I'm pretty sure wafers (in 28nm) cost more than the $4000 you suggested 'to buy' (maybe 'to make' they're cheaper as clearly the fabs aren't doing it for charity).. so you can assume the asics cost more than you're assuming.
Actually, volume production of 300mm 28nm wafers is lower than estimated above. Down to sub $3000 range for high volume. Of course, bitcoin manufacturers are not yet touching the volumes of AMD/nVidia/Qualcomm etc, but there is also the fact that AMD/nVidia typically require more than a dozen metal layers, whereas Im guessing a bitcoin miner would need no more than 3. That also impacts processing time and cost considerably. If anything, $4000 per wafer sounds high to me if you are calculating the "end game".
Many of the other estimates are also clearly too high. A naked PCB for a bitcoin rig isnt going to cost $100 to produce (you can buy far more complex fully populated ATX motherboards with many more layers, connectors and components for only a fraction of that in retail) and a beaglebone black retails for $49 on adafruit, so no way CT is paying $100. VRMS do cost a bit, but caps and resisters and all that, we all know basically cost nothing in volume, no where near $100 per board
ALl in all, IMO the above BOM estimates are way, way high.
May 02, 2014, 09:46:52 PM
If BTC was $1000 a piece, EVERYONE would be having a good time right now.
May 01, 2014, 12:26:48 PM
I think manufacture costs can be under $1100 before power supply.
But then you have r and d. Rent employees etc.
But then you have r and d. Rent employees etc.
May 01, 2014, 11:17:28 AM
Anyone knows if they still have units in stock?
their web shop says they have this model in stock with immed shipping
https://cointerra.com/product/terraminer-iv-1-6-ths-bitcoin-miner/
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May 01, 2014, 11:15:52 AM
Anyone knows if they still have units in stock?
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