Topic: CoinTracking - Profit/Loss Portfolio and Tax Reporting for Digital Currencies - page 101. (Read 122619 times)

I have entered several mined transactions from 2011 in the form below, but the Tax-free coins and have Short & Long shows nothing long in 2017, why not?

Type: In | Buy: 1 | Cur: BTC | Exchange: Bitcoin-QT | Date: 2011-07-23 21:34:36

I've entered a lot of transactions using local time. I input them manually at the time of the trade, so it's not exact, but it's close. When you make this change, will it change any of the times that are already there?

Right now, yes.
But I will adjust the time zones very soon, so it will use your selected time zone.

Dario

@Dario & @Kevin,
I know you are working on this, but for now, when CT figures out the equivalent cost of a transaction (in BTC or USD), are you assuming the transaction time was GMT?

Thanks,

Steve

@ebliever This article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/02/21/if-you-traded-bitcoin-you-should-report-capital-gains-to-the-irs/#2ccc3eb9e3d8 seems like a good one to read if you are an American. The author doesn't specifically address if one were to trade say, from BTC to LTC and back to BTC, and those trades results in a gain of BTC, would that result in a taxable transaction... So, I wrote him and asked (he's a CPA). If he answers me, I will let you know what he says.

Hi @mela65,

thanks for letting us know about your opinion.
We hope you like what we do.

You are totally right, to be a consistent winner it is necessary to keep track of P/L in detail.
Our service offers this possibility.

thanks for your wishes, we really appreciate it. 

Best regards,
Keven

Dario,

Thank you for reply and addressing issue. I was concerned I misunderstood something so I'm relieved that it is an actual issue.

Allan

Very impressive and detail idea. Those who do not keep a profit and loss details, they always lose. I wish success to you and your project.

The gains report is calculated for your trades only.
That's why it's taken into account all your trades and trade fees.

But it's not calculating transactions fees at this moment.
I will add them soon.

That's why your data will result in a gain of $1 because according to your data, 0.01 DASH has a value of 1 USD:
A> Type: Trade   | Buy: 1 DASH   | Sell: 100 USD   | Fee:   | Comment: Bought 1 DASH from Exchange A
D> Type: Trade   | Buy: 100 USD   | Sell: .99 DASH   | Fee:   | Comment: Trade .99 DASH for 100 USD on Exchange B

I will try to add tx fees in the next 2-3 days to the gains report. This will solve tx fee offsets.

Dario

Do you have any information to the contrary for any country? So far as I know this is generally true (that capital gains are only calculated on conversion back to fiat), but I'm sure we'd all like to know of any exceptions.

I've heard this theory before (that only gains matter if they are back to fiat). This sounds like an urban legend about cryptocurrencies that is likely to get some folks in hot water with the taxing authorities. Before you decide to take this approach, you would be wise to consult a qualified tax adviser.

Can you explain why it has this offset? What's special about these fees compared to all of the other fees that are not showing up?


Realized Gain / Loss: 1 USD is showing whether I check the box or not. Are you saying this is wrong and needs corrected? I still don't understand why it's showing at all regardless of whether the box is check or not.

@hessenbob:
Your answer can be found in the 2 lines of text at the bottom of your screenshot
Just activate the "Add Deposits & Withdrawals to remaining amount" checkbox to get the same values as shown on your dashboard.


In your balance it must be exactly 0, as it is calculating all deposits and withdrawals as well.
Only the Realized will have a .01 offset if the "Add Deposits & Withdrawals to remaining amount" checkbox is not set.

Realized and Unrealized Gains -> [X] Add Deposits & Withdrawals to remaining amount -> Balance: 0 DASH | Realized Gain / Loss: 1 USD
Yes, this one is correct, but the PnL is still calculated from trades only.
I will try to adjust it soon.

Dario

Dario,

I have attached a modified screenshot to show the problem.  I will start a ticket as well. Hope we can figure out the issue.
http://imgur.com/a/zaf9e


if I understand correctly, the remaining amount should match the amount on the dashboard, as any sales will be "Realized Gains" or "Realized Losses"

@Dario:

Thanks for taking the time to explain this with examples. The wrong balance (nonzero) appears to be showing fees only from manual entries from Wallet A to Wallet B. I now see in your docs for Realized and Unrealized Gains that this can occur:

Let's say:

A> I have bought 1 DASH for 100 USD from Exchange A.
B> I then send this 1 DASH from Exchange A wallet to Exchange B wallet with transfer fee of .01 DASH.
C> I then receive .99 DASH to Exchange B wallet.
D> I then trade .99 DASH for 100 USD on Exchange B (so now I have 0 DASH).

A> Type: Trade   | Buy: 1 DASH   | Sell: 100 USD   | Fee:   | Comment: Bought 1 DASH from Exchange A
B> Type: -OUT-   | Buy:   | Sell: 1 DASH   | Fee: .01 DASH   | Comment: Sent .99 DASH to Exchange B
C> Type:  -IN-   | Buy: .99 DASH   | Sell:   | Fee:   | Comment: Rcvd .99 DASH from Exchange A
D> Type: Trade   | Buy: 100 USD   | Sell: .99 DASH   | Fee:   | Comment: Trade .99 DASH for 100 USD on Exchange B

Realized and Unrealized Gains -> [  ] Add Deposits & Withdrawals to remaining amount -> Balance: .01 DASH | Realized Gain / Loss: 1 USD
Realized and Unrealized Gains -> [X] Add Deposits & Withdrawals to remaining amount -> Balance: 0 DASH | Realized Gain / Loss: 1 USD

I don't understand why the .01 DASH TX Fee is showing in Balance or as Realized. Can you better explain what this means and why this is done this way?

I've illustrated this in a public test portfolio with just these 4 entries above where I'm hoping you can see this... https://cointracking.info/portfolio/allanster_test -or- here is the CSV format if you want to verify behavior...

"","Type","Buy","Cur.","Sell","Cur.","Exchange","Trade Group","Comment","Trade Date"
"","Trade","1.00000000","DASH","100.00000000","USD","Exchange A","","Buy some DASH","23.06.2017 07:06"
"","Withdrawal","-","","1.00000000","DASH","Exchange A","","Sent DASH to Exchange B","23.06.2017 07:10"
"","Deposit","0.99000000","DASH","-","","Exchange B","","Rcvd DASH from Exchange A","23.06.2017 07:10"
"","Trade","100.00000000","USD","0.99000000","DASH","Exchange B","","Sell ALL of DASH!","23.06.2017 07:30"

@allanster:

Yes, fees are already included in the buy or sell amount.
Using an exchange import, CoinTracking will add or subtract the fee from the right value.

Let say you have bought 1 BTC for 2500 USD on Kraken and you have paid an additional fee of 25 USD, CoinTracking will import:
Buy: 1 BTC | Sell: 2525 USD | Fee: 25 USD

Let say you have bought 1 BTC for 2500 USD on Bitfinex and they have taken a fee of 0.01 BTC from your "buy", CoinTracking will import:
Buy: 0.99 BTC | Sell: 2500 USD | Fee: 0.01 BTC

The values "Buy" and "Sell" are always the real amounts you have paid or received.
The "Fee" field is just a note and does not have an influence on the "Buy" or "Sell" value.

Best, Dario

Thanks Steve for this answer. Wow, so now I'm more confused than ever. I thought I had read in the documentation that fees were included in the amount field and could also be additionally and optionally added in the fees field. Your post indicates I am doing this correctly. I assumed that the mapping of the manual imports from each exchange had already been worked out. So that isn't the case? Definitely this needs to be addressed and I agree a table would be the answer. Same for timestamps.

Also, none of this answers why CoinTracking shows zero in Balance (which it should for these I outlined below), yet Realized and Unrealized Gains shows greater than 0. If I did something wrong both should be off I would think, but not just one of them (Balance vs Realized and Unrealized Gains).

wow great explanation there mate, I think its really useful to know how to use the system properly and with this, it would be a big help to those who really in trading most of their investment as it will help them to properly set It up one by one and knows what the profits or loses as we move forward for more bigger investment to follow, thanks Dario.

Hey,

I don't think your tax authorities will only count your crypto->fiat trades
Usually you need to pay tax on each trade.

But at the end, your calculation would have the same result as the current calculation.


Example using our current method:
Buy: 1 BTC for 1000 USD (no gain here)
Buy: 10 ETH (value at transaction = 1500 USD) for 1 BTC (gain of 500 USD [1500 - 1000])
Buy: 2500 USD for 10 ETH (gain of 1000 USD [2500 - 1500])
Total gain = 1500 USD

Example using your method:
Buy: 1 BTC for 1000 USD (no gain here)
Buy: 10 ETH for 1 BTC (no gain there as it's not a fiat sale)
Buy: 2500 USD for 10 ETH (gain of 1500 USD as the initial cost basis was 1000 USD [2500 - 1000])
Total gain = 1500 USD

Assuming all sales have been short-terms.

Best, Dario

Allan,
Here's the deal with Fees: At this point in time CT treat fees as a "memo only" kind of entry. Entries in the Fees column have NO IMPACT on anything. Well, almost no impact. There is a report that can be run that tells what the fees cost in USD or BTC and also will tell you what the cost was at the time and what the cost for the same amount of "coin" would be at present. Anyway, if you have a transaction that costs something to complete, you would show the amount OUT of the sending site the actual amount "spent" to send it, which would include the fee. Then, on the receiving end, you would show the IN amount as the OUT amount minus the fee. That's the straightforward part.    Here's the fun part. Different exchanges/wallets treat fees differently. Some include the fee in the "cost" and others you have to add the "out" amount and the fee together to get the true cost of the OUT. Others still report fees in the fees column in a whole different currency and actually reduce the balance of that currency! (Bitshares does this). I have taken to putting a whole separate "OUT" transaction to reflect the fee in the spend column

I've recommended to Dario that he start a table of wallets & exchanges that would indicate how the fee is handled by each and then use that table to drive the way CT treats/corrects the imports. This same table could be used to keep track of how an exchange reports transaction times and adjust them all to some standard such as GMT or the User's local time. Then there is the issue of who maintains the data in the table. My guess is the best way to maintain that table would be to maintain it for the users and then CT folks would only have to respond to issues. If the users were maintaining such a table, some would no doubt mess it up and then blame CT for it. Setting up the table initially would be a big job, but should be reasonable to maintain after that.

Dario is fully aware of all these issues and is working on it. Cryptocurrencies could reasonably be compared to the "Wild West", and these guys are working to keep accurate tabs on transactions where there is no standard. People who post here that a user could just as easily keep all this on a spreadsheet just doesn't understand what this product can and will do.

Steve

Steve