College Implements Gender Neutral Bathrooms

Moloch

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Quote from: Slowturtleinc on April 05, 2016, 06:41:46 PM

More fall out over bathroom shits..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paypal-expansion-north-carolina-1.3521378

Quote

PayPal said Tuesday that it was scrapping a $3.6-million US, 400-job expansion in North Carolina, the biggest tangible economic backlash so far to a new state law that restricts protections for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.

To be fair, I don't believe the issue in NC has anything to do with where a tranny takes a piss

That is simply a red-herring used to pass sweeping legislation during and "emergency session"... ground-breaking legislation which passed in under 24 hours...

Everyone keeps ignoring the elephant in the room!

Basically, this is about city/local rights vs state rights... its similar to what caused the civil war!

The civil war was fought over whether states had the right to make laws which disagreed with federal laws... this is the same exact situation... this is whether cities have the right to make laws which disagree with state laws... same thing on a small scale... yet swept under the rug as if it is legislation protecting women's right to privacy... its a red-herring

Spendulus

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Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 06:18:07 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on April 05, 2016, 06:08:43 PM

Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 05:10:42 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 05:03:50 PM

The point is not that it will prevent these things, but having the laws on the books would make it more risky for school administrators for example to stop creepers from trying over and over for fear of being cast as being discriminatory or being sued.

In a school situation there's not going to be many trans people out, maybe 3 or 4 in the whole school. Somebody that doesn't identify as trans goes in the other bathroom, give 'em hell. We could even go as far as to make it illegal to go in the other bathroom without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a psych. Carry a little card around showing you've been diagnosed and it's not a part time gig.

There has to be a compromise somewhere in here..

My personal opinion is to simply relax the rules set. Meaning we don't need jail time for people that go into the opposite sex bathroom, and we don't need high school suspensions for it.

But we don't need a whole boatload of increasingly complex law and regulation either, we need less of it. So why not just fire all those people who think their job is to make up rules about this stuff all day long?

Legislation in one direction is as bad as legislation in another. If you think you can figure out "better, fairer law" you have been conned, my friend.

We're on the same side here, I dislike the idea of any new legislation. Things were just fine when you quietly went in and out of your identified bathroom and maybe got a few weird looks. Now that all the media attention is on the new law people are a lot more trigger happy to do something about it.

However, anything is better than getting arrested and put on the same list as someone stripping in public for going to pee.

Thirty or fifty years ago a cop would never have dreamed of arresting a kid that took a leak in a dark corner of a street. Today they do and will.

That tells you something. Worth thinking about.

Slowturtleinc

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More fall out over bathroom shits..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paypal-expansion-north-carolina-1.3521378

Quote

PayPal said Tuesday that it was scrapping a $3.6-million US, 400-job expansion in North Carolina, the biggest tangible economic backlash so far to a new state law that restricts protections for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.

Slowturtleinc

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Colleges are where some of the kookiest things come up and get validated. Today a college is retracting a form they makes sexual assault victims shut up about it.
link:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/brandon-university-sexual-assault-policy-1.3521898

Just wanted to throw that into the fire because I think it shows how twisted things can get. The percentage of transgenders is mighty small and if they are not doing a good job of convincing me they are on sex they do not deserve a different bathroom. Meaning shave that beard if you want me to believe you are a chick. I know some of them like to sit in the middle,can never win with this movement!
Was not long ago they thought drivers licenses where degrading because you had to choose a sex. Call me old fashioned but I still feel this is a mental health issue and does not relate to homosexuality. Two different topics for me,maybe I am a dinosaur.

cooldgamer

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Quote from: Spendulus on April 05, 2016, 06:08:43 PM

Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 05:10:42 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 05:03:50 PM

The point is not that it will prevent these things, but having the laws on the books would make it more risky for school administrators for example to stop creepers from trying over and over for fear of being cast as being discriminatory or being sued.

In a school situation there's not going to be many trans people out, maybe 3 or 4 in the whole school. Somebody that doesn't identify as trans goes in the other bathroom, give 'em hell. We could even go as far as to make it illegal to go in the other bathroom without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a psych. Carry a little card around showing you've been diagnosed and it's not a part time gig.

There has to be a compromise somewhere in here..

My personal opinion is to simply relax the rules set. Meaning we don't need jail time for people that go into the opposite sex bathroom, and we don't need high school suspensions for it.

But we don't need a whole boatload of increasingly complex law and regulation either, we need less of it. So why not just fire all those people who think their job is to make up rules about this stuff all day long?

Legislation in one direction is as bad as legislation in another. If you think you can figure out "better, fairer law" you have been conned, my friend.

We're on the same side here, I dislike the idea of any new legislation. Things were just fine when you quietly went in and out of your identified bathroom and maybe got a few weird looks. Now that all the media attention is on the new law people are a lot more trigger happy to do something about it.

However, anything is better than getting arrested and put on the same list as someone stripping in public for going to pee.

Spendulus

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Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 05:10:42 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 05:03:50 PM

The point is not that it will prevent these things, but having the laws on the books would make it more risky for school administrators for example to stop creepers from trying over and over for fear of being cast as being discriminatory or being sued.

In a school situation there's not going to be many trans people out, maybe 3 or 4 in the whole school. Somebody that doesn't identify as trans goes in the other bathroom, give 'em hell. We could even go as far as to make it illegal to go in the other bathroom without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a psych. Carry a little card around showing you've been diagnosed and it's not a part time gig.

There has to be a compromise somewhere in here..

My personal opinion is to simply relax the rules set. Meaning we don't need jail time for people that go into the opposite sex bathroom, and we don't need high school suspensions for it.

But we don't need a whole boatload of increasingly complex law and regulation either, we need less of it. So why not just fire all those people who think their job is to make up rules about this stuff all day long?

Legislation in one direction is as bad as legislation in another. If you think you can figure out "better, fairer law" you have been conned, my friend.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 05:10:42 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 05:03:50 PM

The point is not that it will prevent these things, but having the laws on the books would make it more risky for school administrators for example to stop creepers from trying over and over for fear of being cast as being discriminatory or being sued.

In a school situation there's not going to be many trans people out, maybe 3 or 4 in the whole school. Somebody that doesn't identify as trans goes in the other bathroom, give 'em hell. We could even go as far as to make it illegal to go in the other bathroom without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a psych. Carry a little card around showing you've been diagnosed and it's not a part time gig.

There has to be a compromise somewhere in here..

I like the compromise of mandating unisex bathrooms, I think that maximally serves all parties involved, and you seem to agree. As far as the school situation goes, you know how the law works, it only takes one trans person and the whole school policy has to be changed. Like I said before when you are basing laws on something like people's choice of gender identity, it makes laws nearly unenforceable and just creates huge liabilities.

cooldgamer

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We are the champions of the night

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 05:03:50 PM

The point is not that it will prevent these things, but having the laws on the books would make it more risky for school administrators for example to stop creepers from trying over and over for fear of being cast as being discriminatory or being sued.

In a school situation there's not going to be many trans people out, maybe 3 or 4 in the whole school. Somebody that doesn't identify as trans goes in the other bathroom, give 'em hell. We could even go as far as to make it illegal to go in the other bathroom without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a psych. Carry a little card around showing you've been diagnosed and it's not a part time gig.

There has to be a compromise somewhere in here..

TECSHARE

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Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 04:55:08 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:42:47 PM

I understand your complaints, but is it not true that allowing anyone to just choose what bathroom they want to use creates problems and conflicts for the vast majority of the population as well? It is very possible people could just masquerade as trans just to get into opposite sex bathrooms for reasons of degeneracy. Why do you think it is ok to transfer your discomfort to others to alleviate your own?

What is to stop some creep from doing these things anyway? If somebody is creeping around call the cops on them for being a creep or harassing you.

Couldn't somebody of the other gender say they are biologically female but look like a man, and therefor have to be in that bathroom?

Hell, I could go as far as to say these laws make it easier for the creeps to get in, as somebody presenting as a man just has to say they have a vagina.

To answer your questions, the vast majority of the time it does not create a conflict, and what it may create is about as bad as the conflict of allowing transmen in womens bathrooms (and vice versa).

Unless you have a unisex bathroom, trans people that do not pass will inherently make somebody uncomfortable, as will bathroom laws.

The point is not that it will prevent these things, but having the laws on the books would make it more risky for school administrators for example to stop creepers from trying over and over for fear of being cast as being discriminatory or being sued.

Quote from: Moloch on April 05, 2016, 04:57:07 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:53:56 PM

I can see you are trying to attach this to me personally as if I have a problem with trans people, I don't. I have a problem with the rights of others being taken from one group of people and given to another

I don't have a problem with you personally, I'm arguing against your logic, not calling you a poopy face...

You are exactly arguing for rights being taken away from tranny's... you just cannot see it for some reason

The reason media outlets are reporting that NC struck down "anti-discrimination laws" is because that is exactly the situation...

No you aren't just criticizing my logic, you are addressing me personally as if I have some kind of "transphobia" and speculating on my personal beliefs, not just discussing the topic directly. Additionally I don't think it is exactly righteous to make larger amounts of people uncomfortable to satiate smaller numbers of people. In net total that creates more discomfort, not less. That is just taking the rights of the majority and giving it to the minority, not "rights being taken away from tranny's".

crazywack

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As a white middle aged male, I have been looking for a "minority" group to fit into. Maybe I can get my work to open one of these non gender bathrooms so I can fit into a non discrimtory area. tired of being "the problem" with society and not being able to say something back.

Just do it like the police, if you have a wang your a dude, if not you can go to the women's side.

Moloch

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Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:53:56 PM

I can see you are trying to attach this to me personally as if I have a problem with trans people, I don't. I have a problem with the rights of others being taken from one group of people and given to another

I don't have a problem with you personally, I'm arguing against your logic, not calling you a poopy face...

You are exactly arguing for rights being taken away from tranny's... you just cannot see it for some reason

The reason media outlets are reporting that NC struck down "anti-discrimination laws" is because that is exactly the situation...

cooldgamer

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We are the champions of the night

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:42:47 PM

Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 04:35:27 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:25:34 PM

Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 03:01:58 PM

While I wish we could just let people use bathrooms based on gender identity, this seems like a valid option for places wanting to be transgender friendly.

As a trans person currently living in NC, this law sucks ass. Big burly transmen will be in the girls room and freak them out, transgirls will be in the guys room and risk being attacked. Either way, police may be called and take time to check ID's, not to mention if you get an officer that isn't TG friendly....

You're pretty much stuck between outing yourself to the world as trans and risking your safety, and risking being charged with a sex crime.

Going to the bathroom shouldn't feel like Mission Impossible to avoid being seen -_-

So what is your issue with unisex bathrooms then?

I don't have one, but I'd rather just be able to use the one I identify with anywhere rather than having to hunt out a 'safe space'. If everywhere had a unisex bathroom I'd be totally okay with it, but that simply won't happen.

I understand your complaints, but is it not true that allowing anyone to just choose what bathroom they want to use creates problems and conflicts for the vast majority of the population as well? It is very possible people could just masquerade as trans just to get into opposite sex bathrooms for reasons of degeneracy. Why do you think it is ok to transfer your discomfort to others to alleviate your own?

What is to stop some creep from doing these things anyway? If somebody is creeping around call the cops on them for being a creep or harassing you.

Couldn't somebody of the other gender say they are biologically female but look like a man, and therefor have to be in that bathroom?

Hell, I could go as far as to say these laws make it easier for the creeps to get in, as somebody presenting as a man just has to say they have a vagina.

To answer your questions, the vast majority of the time it does not create a conflict, and what it may create is about as bad as the conflict of allowing transmen in womens bathrooms (and vice versa).

Unless you have a unisex bathroom, trans people that do not pass will inherently make somebody uncomfortable, as will bathroom laws.

Slowturtleinc

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Why stop at sexuality, why do I have to stand next to a dude with a arm for a dick at the urinal! Makes it hard to go and now I have to worry about some tranny coming in the door, makes my bladder shy.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: Moloch on April 05, 2016, 04:52:00 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:51:04 PM

Quote from: Moloch on April 05, 2016, 04:49:46 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:47:42 PM

My point is it is a fact many people are not comfortable with this. I personally don't give a shit who uses what bathroom (as long as the ladies don't turn it into a biohazard area). Do you deny that pedophiles exist? What would stop them from using this arrangement to perv on children in schools for example, and then claim minority protections and victim-hood when exposed?

What is to stop a pedophile from dressing as a woman, and being a perv in the woman's room, regardless of whether tranny's are allowed in there?

If someone is doing anything illegal, that is the crime... not pissing in a stall with the door closed

Stopping tranny's from using the bathroom of their new gender, does not stop a pervert from dressing as a woman

It does make a difference indeed, because people would be less likely to stop it for risk of being accused, charged, or being sued for "discrimination".

Stop what exactly?

What exactly are you afraid someone is doing in the bathroom?

I can see you are trying to attach this to me personally as if I have a problem with trans people, I don't. I have a problem with the rights of others being taken from one group of people and given to another. Please keep it about the topic and not about me personally, or I will just stop replying to your nonsense personal attacks. I would have loved to have this discussion with the actual person this effects directly, but you have pretty much ensured that wont happen with your knee jerk reactions.

Moloch

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Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:51:04 PM

Quote from: Moloch on April 05, 2016, 04:49:46 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:47:42 PM

My point is it is a fact many people are not comfortable with this. I personally don't give a shit who uses what bathroom (as long as the ladies don't turn it into a biohazard area). Do you deny that pedophiles exist? What would stop them from using this arrangement to perv on children in schools for example, and then claim minority protections and victim-hood when exposed?

What is to stop a pedophile from dressing as a woman, and being a perv in the woman's room, regardless of whether tranny's are allowed in there?

If someone is doing anything illegal, that is the crime... not pissing in a stall with the door closed

Stopping tranny's from using the bathroom of their new gender, does not stop a pervert from dressing as a woman

It does make a difference indeed, because people would be less likely to stop it for risk of being accused, charged, or being sued for "discrimination".

Stop what exactly?

What exactly are you afraid someone is doing in the bathroom?

And how exactly do you think having the laws written the way you like will make a difference?

Do you seriously believe that if a tranny is allowed to piss in the women's room... people won't prosecute a pervert for raping a woman? I don't even understand your logic

Women should want tranny's in there... if some pervert tries to rape her... the tranny might kick his ass!

I think this is the logic behind unisex restrooms... nobody is going to do anything crazy with both men and women in the same bathroom

TECSHARE

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Quote from: Moloch on April 05, 2016, 04:49:46 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:47:42 PM

My point is it is a fact many people are not comfortable with this. I personally don't give a shit who uses what bathroom (as long as the ladies don't turn it into a biohazard area). Do you deny that pedophiles exist? What would stop them from using this arrangement to perv on children in schools for example, and then claim minority protections and victim-hood when exposed?

What is to stop a pedophile from dressing as a woman, and being a perv in the woman's room, regardless of whether tranny's are allowed in there?

It makes no difference... if someone is doing anything illegal, that is the crime... not pissing in a stall with the door closed

It does make a difference indeed, because people would be less likely to stop it for risk of being accused, charged, or being sued for "discrimination". School systems are notorious for going to great lengths to prevent lawsuits.

Moloch

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Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:47:42 PM

My point is it is a fact many people are not comfortable with this. I personally don't give a shit who uses what bathroom (as long as the ladies don't turn it into a biohazard area). Do you deny that pedophiles exist? What would stop them from using this arrangement to perv on children in schools for example, and then claim minority protections and victim-hood when exposed?

What is to stop a pedophile from dressing as a woman, and being a perv in the woman's room, regardless of whether tranny's are allowed in there?

If someone is doing anything illegal, that is the crime... not pissing in a stall with the door closed

Stopping tranny's from using the bathroom of their new gender, does not stop a pervert from dressing as a woman

TECSHARE

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Quote from: Moloch on April 05, 2016, 04:44:36 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:42:47 PM

I understand your complaints, but is it not true that allowing anyone to just choose what bathroom they want to use creates problems and conflicts for the vast majority of the population as well? It is very possible people could just masquerade as trans just to get into opposite sex bathrooms for reasons of degeneracy. Why do you think it is ok to transfer your discomfort to others to alleviate your own?

I do not believe this at all...

Cite a single time where any man dressed as a woman to sneak into the women's room... it didn't happen... you're just afraid of the boogy man

yes, I am sure statistics are collected on this xD

My point is it is a fact many people are not comfortable with this. I personally don't give a shit who uses what bathroom (as long as the ladies don't turn it into a biohazard area). Do you deny that pedophiles exist? What would stop them from using this arrangement to perv on children in schools for example, and then claim minority protections and victim-hood when exposed? Laws need to be quantifiable and enforceable. Basing a law around what amounts to at minimum a person's choice is not an effective law.

Moloch

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Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:42:47 PM

I understand your complaints, but is it not true that allowing anyone to just choose what bathroom they want to use creates problems and conflicts for the vast majority of the population as well? It is very possible people could just masquerade as trans just to get into opposite sex bathrooms for reasons of degeneracy. Why do you think it is ok to transfer your discomfort to others to alleviate your own?

I do not believe this at all... It's propagating fear of the boogeyman...

Nobody is doing anything crazy in the bathroom... if they do, you call the cops

It is a total red herring and nothing to do with the reason for the repeal of all local anti-discrimination ordinances

Moloch

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Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 04:35:27 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 05, 2016, 04:25:34 PM

Quote from: cooldgamer on April 05, 2016, 03:01:58 PM

While I wish we could just let people use bathrooms based on gender identity, this seems like a valid option for places wanting to be transgender friendly.

As a trans person currently living in NC, this law sucks ass. Big burly transmen will be in the girls room and freak them out, transgirls will be in the guys room and risk being attacked. Either way, police may be called and take time to check ID's, not to mention if you get an officer that isn't TG friendly....

You're pretty much stuck between outing yourself to the world as trans and risking your safety, and risking being charged with a sex crime.

Going to the bathroom shouldn't feel like Mission Impossible to avoid being seen -_-

So what is your issue with unisex bathrooms then?

I don't have one, but I'd rather just be able to use the one I identify with anywhere rather than having to hunt out a 'safe space'. If everywhere had a unisex bathroom I'd be totally okay with it, but that simply won't happen.

You'd be surprised... I bet unisex bathrooms will be all the rage in the future... anywhere from 2-20 years from now, depending on your local area

Topic: College Implements Gender Neutral Bathrooms (Read 1374 times)