Topic: Combating Oligarchy (Read 1878 times)

Well just think about it: property = something that has an owner  , public = that there is no owner , therefore public property is an oxymoron, a logical contradiction by itself.

So the only logical way to interpret 'public property' is if we say that it's owned by everybody, which means that everyone owns a % share of that item, which can be either weighted % or flat %.

So if we say that bitcoin is "public property" that means that I own as much % share of bitcoin, that I have in my balance.

That's like saying that I'm biased because I don't like you bring potentially dangerous stranger into my house. The logic isn't sound. Alternative implementations are welcome, contentious HF's aren't.

That's taking things a bit far, but okay. Additionally, it is interesting how some people think "freedom of speech" means that the moderators aren't allowed to delete their posts.  

Everyone owns a proportional % of the air, that he consumes. But since the air we breathe is so abundant, it's hard to quantify.

And because of the abundance, the price is infinitessimal, tending towards 0, and it's rounded down, so it's effectively 0.


But you cannot say that it's a public property, because the word "public" has really no meaning when you assign it to the word "property".

To say that something is public, means that there is no owner of it, which is bogus, because everything has an owner.

Who owns the atmosphere we breathe.

Yes Lauda, we all know the admins on this forum are biased heavily for Core. No one is saying the forum isn't privately owned. We knew that already.

There is no public property, it's a contradiction, everything essentially is private or a coalition of private property.

But socialists cant comprehend this. Either there is private property or there isnt. If there is, then everything is private, otherwise it's a logical contradiction.

The same way that the forum administration "was 100% aware" that people will go to Bitcoin XT?  This is a privately owned forum. It seems that people fail to understand what this means.

Regardless of whether or not they're out of touch, it's now in the one of the most popular sections of Bitcointalk. I'm actually glad it's been moved because I hardly wander out of the altcoin ghetto.

Well anyone can photoshop that, only a signed message from that address can prove that it's yours.

But to be honest I dont care how much bitcoins you have.

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But if you really have a lot of bitcoins it's in your interest too to not have bad code implemented in the software, otherwise you can lose a lot of money.

A few newbies leaving on the other hand is really no big deal.

Yes. This is for keeping people out of info. They are 100% aware that people will go on Bitcoin Classic. They are certain. Bitcoin Classic gain 25% of Bitcoin nodes with all this supression. Imagine without supression. Just imagine. They are aware that they are the lossing part if they don't use their force to stop spreading the word about Bitcoin Classic or any other alternative to Bitcoin code itself.

Gotta love how this thread was moved to altcoin discussion. Just goes to show how out of touch the people running this forum are!

Most of them are in cold storage I do have 51% on a ledger. And no Bitcoin is not a corporate play toy. It wasn't meant to be that. Since that's direction is heading then ...as you said I'll try to search a better uncontrolled by seceretive Elite Groups cryptocurrency. Thanks for your 2 bits of wise words. But still Bitcoin is controlled by tyrany that's why people don't know about this debate. Because that's what they are trying to hide , specially the Bitcoin Core group. You can see that this topic was moved to altcoins. And they did many faul moves just to hide this debate as much as possible.

Will a print screen satisfy you ?

github.com/bitcoin  is not necessary Bitcoin. It is just one of Bitcoin full node implementations - Bitcoin Core, previously Bitcoin QT and Satoshi client. Bitcoin Core should finally move to github.com/bitcoincore and the github.com/bitcoin  can be used as a gateway to all Bitcoins full node implementations - this would be more realistic description of what github.com/bitcoin is. Wladimir should grow up and do the change, it is very important for decentralization of Bitcoin development.

This is correct. It's not Bitcoin that will necessarily stop abuses of power, but rather the choice to stop using it, which the mathematics of Cryptography have now given us. We now have the option to freely choose our currency and have 100% control over our wealth. The choice we all have to leave Bitcoin is what will necessarily keep it from becoming the ultimate tool of tyranny. Now the question is, who will be fooled and how much will people put up with before they leave? Those of us who value privacy will be watching, and we'll be long gone I think if it ever becomes an issue.

You always have the right to choose, there are 700+ coins out there, each one with different specs. If you dont like bitcoin's structure, then create a democracy coin , nobody stops you from doing that.

He is right, bitcoin is not democratic, it's a business, and the more money you have invested in it, the more dominance you have over it.

I have no problem letting the bitcoin elites vote for me with the condition that when i become rich others should honor this privilege too.


I dont like to talk about technical aspects of bitcoin because i honestly tell you that i`m not expert in them.

However, you dont have the honesty of admitting that the majority of bitcoin users arent experts either, but you would like them to decide over it's faith.

It's like letting 5 year olds building a nuclear powerplant.

I dont think you have 500 bitcoin.


It's a business, if you want your voice heard, build a big bitcoin company or get 1,000,000 bitcoins so that you have the leverage necessary to make your opinion heard.

Can you tell me what are costs, necessary hardware, etc. for me to setup a node at home? Thanks.

To add to my last post... I'm not entirely agreeing with this. Tyranny refers to excessive government control. In the physical world that achieved through force or threats of force. Government can force fiat currency on us through law. Crypto-currencies are changing that however, because they allow us to bypass the system (opt out completely). The hope is that because of the nature of crypto, it will be impossible to control. We can still choose a better alt-coin if one exists. The whole Crypto ecosystem is what prevents tyranny, not just Bitcoin.

Believe me, I will be sad if Bitcoin fails to achieve the ideals of decentralization (100% control of your own wealth, 100% privacy, etc). I have big stakes in it as well, but we must not become too emotionally attached. Keep your eyes open and be ready to abandon ship if necessary. That's not to say BTC will fail soon, or even in the next 10 years. I believe the price is going much higher yet.

If Bitcoin fails due to "greediness" then I think it was doomed from the start anyways.

This is like blaming the failures of government on greed. Greed will always exist, we just need to stop giving it the vehicle within which to thrive. I'm talking about centralization (the state) vs de-centralization (the free market).

We know that greed/power can best be limited through free market competition and that greed/power concentrates with the existence of a state.

It is quite possible that BTC simply wasn't as inherently decentralized as we all wanted to believe. If that's the case then ultimately the the worlds nation states will dominate it and use it to control to an even higher degree than they can with the existing financial system.

I think my opinion is that if we're counting human altruism vs greed to steer BTC down the right path, then it's already not de-centralized enough and will fail. That's where we vote with our money and move to an alt-coin, probably one that doesn't exist yet.

I'm not sure if the blocksize debate is an issue of centralization vs decentralization though. Perhaps both options are good enough, at least for a few years or decades. I see a lot of fear and panic by big block advocates, but I see the concern about chinese miners having to much power. I also see the guys with Millions invested as deserving more say because they have the most at stake.

Can it simply be categorized as greed to want to protect your investment? Call this a dictatorship if you want, but how is democracy any different. You can still end up with a 51 - 49 split. Democracy is a tyranny of the majority. What happens if the voters decide the opposite of those big investors and ultimately causes the to lose $Millions? Those investors and all that expertise will just leave for somewhere else and BTC will die a slow death anyways. Ever read Atlas Shrugged? If you treat capital poorly it will leave and all that will remain are those leeches that tried to vote it away from them out of good intentions.

That being said, I'd probably vote for a 2mb increase immediately followed by Segwit, etc. later. Part of me would like to see a big shakeup just for the sake of keeping things exciting. I'm curious to hear how much it costs to setup a Classic node in my home.

You thinking is flawed. Tyrany? You don't see it? Bitcoin Classic is diss'ed as an ALTCOIN and not BITCOIN. On every corner the tyrans are trying to shut down information about Bitcoin Classic so people will not be aware , so people will not have the right to choose! You don't see tyrany ?

When Leuda says : "Bitcoin is not democractic" . This doesn't sounds you like a tyranic? Not at all?

I think you should go read Bitcoin whitepaper and you can see that actually Bitcoin Core became an altcoin since it's much far from the initial project and roadmap.

Yeah I will be happy to dump my 500 coins if Bitcoin Blockstream Core wins this battle. Sadly they are controlling all media channels were people can inform themselves and choose. So this will be a hard battle.


bitcoin is supposed to be public consensus, not a group of elites getting togheter like Bilderberg Group trying to decide the faith of world. That's tyrany. That's against the freedom that Bitcoin has been promoted since it was born!

What is so tyrranical about it? Because i`m anti tyrrany, so please point it out to me because i cant see it.

We vote on things based on balance, bitcoin is private property after all, and if I have say 50 bitcoin and you have 20, then its obvious that i should have more rights than you because i hold more stake in it.

It's as simple is that, bitcoin is nothing more but a share/stock in this business, and if you have more you should have more rights.

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It's not coercive by any means, and its totally voluntary.

Don't like it? Sell your coins and join another coin that is managed by other means, if you can find any.

The obvious truth is that leftist guys like you deny private property, and it's you who should be ashamed.