Topic: Compared to Bitcoin, gold doesn't seem real... - page 2. (Read 7506 times)

What misunderstanding is that?That you can't torture someone to reveal their private key. The're no misunderstanding here.That statement is just not true.What you should have said that there are ways to make it harder(or even impossible) for some one to gain access to your bitcoin through implement of torture and coercion( which existed for other assets such as cash or gold long before bitcoin's existence).



Perhaps it would be better to construct your statement (or give a thought or two about them ) before typing them.


Good .so you accept that those "anti-torture"security feature aren't unique to bitcoin
 

What case is that?I believe everyone here agree that people who swindle others for self gain are scumbags.Hell. we'll applaud when these bastards got their just desserts.
Stating the truth doesn't mean I condone their act.Calling them scumbags  should tip you of to this .Are you implying that I should mince my words when addressing those dregs?


During the course of our interaction I've refuted your half baked ideas that:

1)Gold is easier  to destroy than bitcoin

2)bitcoin is immune to torture.

3)You need to be honest/emphatic to earn bitcoin.


You seems to have trouble understanding my arguments.I suggest rereading them before spewing any other poorly structured counterpoint(or inserting derail attempts)and rethink/recheck your statements before posting them, lest you want to spread misinformation(I'm sure you don't meant to) about bitcoin.

I disagree on both points for the same reason. Bitcoin doesn't rely on only simple keys. I'm sorry you don't understand. Try reading up on Bitcoin's features instead of repeating the same misunderstanding. FYI, using quotes means the statement is a quote and probably shouldn't be taken literally.
You keep saying things are not new, but I never claimed they were. You fail to make a point. Saying that being a scumbag is a way to earn anything won't help your case with anyone. In fact you haven't even made a relevant point let alone refuted mine.

This is another irrelevant point that'll derail this thread even more(than we already are).What this about?The need to maintain a strong central authority and good economic progression to stem  the foothold of violent crime organisation?I'm not biting( no matter scrumptious it may seems) .


Strange, did you not advocate that proper use of bitcoin could shield  the user from government oversight?I'm sure the crime lord would be smart enough to take such advice to heart.Besides if they're powerful enough to take and hold territories from the government their IT department would be similarly up to the task.


 Yes we established that already.

Your rub fail.This is why combining  two completely incongruous  argument chains  is considered bad form of debating .


1)Bitcoin is as immune to torture as  any other forms of value storing method.It doesn't matter if it's vault key, stronghold access, bank pin number of bitcoin private key.Your method of stopping them from gaining access to your wealth is also applicable to my other examples.There is nothing unique to bitcoin in this regard.Protecting your asset at the cost life isn't a new concept.


2)You not need to be honest or emphatic to earn bitcoin. Scumbags will be scumbags.They'll migrate wherever there's gain to be made.The thing that will protect your bitcoin is the exact same thing that protects your other assets:due diligence.After all ,fences do pre-date bitcoin.

This deserves its own reply. Some drug cartels employ people, build schools and road, etc. BECAUSE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS TOO AFRAID OR UNABLE TO STOP THEM!!! They are then able to win the peasants over through greed and the threat of violence.

If drug cartels were forced to use bitcoin, well first of all, they tend to be pretty stupid thugs. They would be easy pickings for cybercrime enforcement to lockdown in most cases. I can't even.

I answered both. There's the rub. I'm saying Bitcoin *can* be immune to all known forms of torture. The tools are there, people just need to learn how to use them. Of course there will always be the option of nLockTime transactions that secure them so even having the keys won't unlock them until a specific time. The adversary would just have to wait. It will probably be a good idea for everyone to do this at some point. I'm also saying that bitcoins can't be stolen if properly secured. You're reading too much into honesty and empathy retort. Bitcoin will make fraud much less possible. "Fences make good neighbors."

Ironically,some drug cartel do indeed gave candies to children in their area of power on some occasions.They use the carrot and stick method to maintain control, everybody knows that.Or  do you mean how they pay for it?By any means available to them :money, goods, favours,coercion etc .They would readily use bitcoin like any other asset that they have access to .



Then perhaps you should stop using overly generalising statement such as
Which is pretty  much false.


Are we still talking about how bitcoin isn't really more immune to torture and coercion than other value retainers or are you replying to my rebuttal of the the " could only be earned through honesty and empathy" thing.

I suppose drug cartels use Hallmark cards and candy to maintain their wealth and power. I never said that all of them do so. I can't even.

In theory, but it doesn't work in the internet age. Credit card fraud, bank hackers, ATM fraud, counterfeiting, etc. and taxpayers end up paying for them. Bitcoin makes all of those things impossible. The only major frauds that occur in Bitcoin are confidence games. They usually appeal to a person's greed and their isn't much anyone can do about someone willing to give their money away.

Again ,not unique to bitcoin .The fiat based system have been doing these for ages. Financial services notifying law enforcement when they notice suspicious transaction  is one of the more basic form of this.

Not entire true.Many of them got them by their talents(hardwork,their brains, ability to forge social connections etc) or luck,its usually the combination of those.Not all of them are despicable people ,you know.

History has taught us that those without the means to achieve thing without violence are more like to do so than those with the means(rich and powerful).There are  good reason why violent crimes and social strife are more prevalent in poorer communities rather than affluent ones .




It' hard to say that with a straight face when the playing field wasn't even violent in first place.


The prevalence of scams and frauds involving bitcoin pretty much invalidates this statement altogether.You don't even need to leave this forum go to scam promoting ones to find them, they'r all here where we at.

That's why you use layers. Drugs cause states of consciousness that make difficult sequences hard to recall. Keys can be made to trigger alarms that alert trusted assets that can trap or track adversaries to reveal their positions for law enforcement or other forms of justice.

I think the greater threat is the threat of death. IMO most people are not going to want to die in order to protect their bitcoin/money. Although it would be possible for someone to only give information that would allow an attacker to access a portion of their bitcoin, an attacker could potentially forcibly administer any number of drugs that makes people more willing to give up information and makes it more difficult for them to hide information

The rich and powerful usually resort to violence to achieve their ends. Bitcoin makes it trustless and non-violent to level the playing field. Their wealth will no longer be maintained by force, it will need to be earned through honesty and empathy.

None of what you said is unique to bitcoin.Rich and powerful people had been doing these for centuries.

No, you don't understand Bitcoin at all. Sure they can kill you, so what? They get nothing. And guess what, there are also ways to hide the information necessary for heirs to receive the bitcoins in the event of your death at a future date. I won't even get into the ways bitcoins can be used for anonymous vigilantism in the event of a death by foul play.

Do you not read the part about "kidnap and torture"?We're not talking about hackers here(and even they use social engineering to do so if they could).

No ,they only need to know who the person who that holds that bitcoin and torture them to hand their key. If they couldn't/refuse  to cooperate ,well too bad ,you're dead.S/he need not be a technical expert to do this , the depravity and willingness to inflict pain and fear are the only "a particular set of skills" necessary.The simplest way  break a unbreakable safe is always to get it from someone who knows the key.

That's pretty close to the security Coinbase uses.

Piff Paff. Bitcoin the Superhero

They would only find decoys unless they knew exactly how many layers deep the cold storage bitcoins are buried. Then they need to know how deep the n factor authentication is buried. Then they need to know what countries and have the authority to find where the multisignature and SSS keys are hidden. Your street thug will need "a particular set of skills" to pull that off.

The blockchain may still house secrets I have not yet discovered...