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Topic: Complaints about amount of Monero posts thread - page 2. (Read 5419 times)

donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
You just want to argue with me, don't you?

No, I'd just like you to point out the mindless slobbering you state exists.

No, you're wrong. You really do just want to argue with me. Because I already pointed it out to you.

You said I should look at the Poloniex trollbox. That's disingenuous, is not a credible source, and certainly does not contain any officially sanctioned information from members of the core team.

Again, you state that mindless slobbering exists, so link me to the mindless slobbering over Monero on Reddit or Bitcointalk. You made a claim, I'm asking for a citation, just like Wikipedia does: [citation needed]
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
BBR's changes to Classic CryptoNote are not small. BBR's block chain changes make it at least 50% smaller. That is just one change.

This isn't meant to say that BBR changes are not worthwhile, but in reality if the size reduction is only 50% that is a small reduction.

Disk sizes are routinely measured in terabytes. Even SSDs are reaching the terabyte range now. Blockchain sizes for any of these coins are measured in the gigabytes or tens of gigabytes at most. On another thread someone estimated a CN blockchain with transaction volume comparable to bitcoin at around 60 GB in a few years. Obviously these estimates are highly innaccurate, but that isn't really the point. By the time this happens disk sizes will likely be measured in tens of terabytes. Whether the blockchain size turns out to be 30 GB (1/2) or 120 GB (2x) really makes very little difference.

I note in fairness that you did say at least 50%. If it turns out to be 90% or more, then perhaps you are on to something. But at 50% it is hard to see why anyone would care much.

Yes, I'm part of the XMR team so I have an an agenda here, as do you. However, others with no apparent agenda have made the same point, including I think dga who is now a visible BBR supporter.


legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
You just want to argue with me, don't you?

No, I'd just like you to point out the mindless slobbering you state exists.

No, you're wrong. You really do just want to argue with me. Because I already pointed it out to you.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1001

BBR's changes to Classic CryptoNote are not small. BBR's block chain changes make it at least 50% smaller. That is just one change.
So go ahead fork Monero then, but keep the perfectly sized blockchain intact. (That is the value, the blockchain ledger with everyones holdings)
Monero is young and can still grow, a hard fork would be a loved by investors if it brings in even better functions.

I think in general the altcoin scene is too afraid to hard fork, there is nothing that hinders a hard fork of Monero at this point. Monero is not old like Bitcoin, it's a perfect coin to hard fork and keep the value intact. That would only raise confidence.


That is Monero's decision to make. I don't believe a CryptoNote coin has ever been successfully hard-forked. There may be unexpected consequences.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
I kind of want Bytecoin or Boolberry to become the dominant CN coin, just to see the arrogant Monero proponents get a comeuppance.

this is exactly what i mean. they are too full of themselves. opening thread after thread like they are entitled to it. this kind of behavior just makes the members look desperate. hurting the coins image.

Even doge was not so obnoxious


ehhh eff it. why do i bother.

hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
Especially the guy who owns a dilapidated castle in Estonia.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
I kind of want Bytecoin or Boolberry to become the dominant CN coin, just to see the arrogant Monero proponents get a comeuppance.
sr. member
Activity: 469
Merit: 250
English Motherfucker do you speak it ?

BBR's changes to Classic CryptoNote are not small. BBR's block chain changes make it at least 50% smaller. That is just one change.
So go ahead fork Monero then, but keep the perfectly sized blockchain intact. (That is the value, the blockchain ledger with everyones holdings)
Monero is young and can still grow, a hard fork would be a loved by investors if it brings in even better functions.

I think in general the altcoin scene is too afraid to hard fork, there is nothing that hinders a hard fork of Monero at this point. Monero is not old like Bitcoin, it's a perfect coin to hard fork and keep the value intact. That would only raise confidence.
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
You just want to argue with me, don't you?

No, I'd just like you to point out the mindless slobbering you state exists.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1001
I'm sure you alluded to the fact Boolberry is the litecoin to moneros bitcoin, ie a copy paste with a few marketing gimmicks added on-top, ignoring the fact monero is a copy paste of bytecoin (which is essentially the tenebrix) - that's the kind of thing I regularly see from XMR proponents.

Ignored? I have addressed this in many posts, I have written about the fact that Monero has copied Bytecoin in a similar way that Litecoin copied Tenebrix. Far from ignoring this point I have spoken about it many times.

Tenebrix (Bytecoin) was first in their space (regardless if their space was actually needed [1]). Litecoin (Monero) at first offered not necessarily a technical innovation over their predecessor, but a market innovation.

The market innovation was that they were not scam-mined in the beginning. Thus Litecoin (Monero) had to prevail as a reaction to their original scamcoin origins (Tenebrix and Bytecoin).

Again, I have spoken about this many times, it is your narrative that I am ignoring it.

[1] The biggest difference here, is that Monero's market is needed (A true anonymous currency) and Litecoin's wasn't really needed at all.



Who says monero is Litecoin, perhaps it's fairbrix or geist geld? That big ol' botnet ravaged blockchain and command line interface won't be adopted by aunt gemima on her aging HP anytime soon.. Grin On a serious note.. agreed, it is the most like LTC of current crypto-note crop, but who knows .. anything can happen.

There was a time Litecoin had a purpose (aside from being able to mine btc and ltc simultaneously), the reason I personally brought and mined it from 2011 was to escape BTC's forthcoming ASIC centralisation, with LTC initially almost everyone (Aside from few insiders) was on level playing ground- 1 cpu 1 vote.
but that point is long moot and I agree it offers no tangible benefit over BTC now.

I'm curious why you think BBR is a clone of XMR with 'marketing gimmick's' still however. Was it not envisioned /announced at the same time, if not earlier than XMR independently? Do you think this altcoin section has more marketing exposure to BBR than XMR? Do you really believe boolberrys alterations to vanilla cryptonote are nothing more than gimmicks to reel in a quick pump?

I know that BBR is a BCN clone like XMR. I know that the additions BBR has made have their advantages, and I know that they are certainly not gimmicks to make for a pump and dump.

However I am unconvinced that the changes are enough to warrant BBR overtaking XMR.

Hal Finny said that the competitor that overtook Bitcoin would have to offer a huge advantage to overcome the network effects to warrant replacing Bitcoin.

I am unconvinced even Monero offers enough change to warrant overtaking Bitcoin, I see Monero overtaking Bitcoin being a disaster and certainly not good the Cryptocoin ecosystem.

However, because Monero offers something major that Bitcoin does not, I see Monero taking 2nd place easily. However I cannot see any reason why BBR should overtake Monero, the divide between BBR and Monero technically speaking is very small (And both teams are helping each other out), the difference between Monero and Bitcoin is massive, and still doesn't warrant replacing Bitcoin.

I see no logic behind a competitor with small changes overtaking Monero.

BBR's changes to Classic CryptoNote are not small. BBR's block chain changes make it at least 50% smaller. That is just one change.
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
Hang out in the Poloniex trollbox for 5 minutes.

I'd rather die a painful death that involves torture of some sort. Anything called a "trollbox" should not be used as a measure of anything important, least of all the technical merits of something that involves a deep understanding of both mathematics and cryptography.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
will fade away like everything else, the price is already high, no room to grow, and i don't like the name...

Plus anytime there is too many random people all mindlessly slobbering over the same coin in a desperate attempt to fool others into taking their bag, I stay away from that coin. Never bought a single XMR for that reason, and its paid off well.

The signal-to-noise ratio with XMR is extremely, extremely high. I'd love for you to point to the "mindless slobbering" you've noticed, because I'm not seeing it.

Hang out in the Poloniex trollbox for 5 minutes.
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
will fade away like everything else, the price is already high, no room to grow, and i don't like the name...

Plus anytime there is too many random people all mindlessly slobbering over the same coin in a desperate attempt to fool others into taking their bag, I stay away from that coin. Never bought a single XMR for that reason, and its paid off well.

The signal-to-noise ratio with XMR is extremely, extremely high. I'd love for you to point to the "mindless slobbering" you've noticed, because I'm not seeing it.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
will fade away like everything else, the price is already high, no room to grow, and i don't like the name...

Plus anytime there is too many random people all mindlessly slobbering over the same coin in a desperate attempt to fool others into taking their bag, I stay away from that coin. Never bought a single XMR for that reason, and its paid off well.
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
yeah its alway the same gag - "no one has shown the ability......"

A GPU device is essentially a packaged simplified "PC" its a;  Processor, Ram and Electricity, the market won't keep falling for the same gag.

next question:

Whats wrong with GPU's? 

The latest complex algos and the future ones will all be more or less minable on a broad range of old and new devices - CPU and GPU  this is as close to "egalitarian" as you will get. (even though that is a really retarded word to use.) (i know its not yours)

its just a free market finding equilibrium, that is all it is.

It's not a "gag" at all - unless you're incredibly familiar with the code and its technical merits, or lack thereof, I don't think it's appropriate to speak to its value.

Here's what Dave Andersen, an associate professor in the CS department at Carnegie Mellon, had to say about it:

Quote
The algorithm is *not* complex, it's very simple.  Grab a random-indexed 128 bit value from the big lookup table.  Mix it using a single round of AES.  Store part of the result back.  Use that to index the next item.  Mix that with a 64 bit multiply.  Store back.  Repeat.  It's intellectually very close to scrypt, with a few tweaks to take advantage of things that are fast on modern CPUs.

Claymore has no fundamental advantage beyond lots of memory bandwidth and compute.  His results are actually slightly slower than what is achievable on a GPU with no algorithmic magic -- compare Claymore's speeds to tsiv's for nvidia and extrapolate another 10%-20% due to slightly better code.

Remember that there are two ways to implement the CryptoNight algorithm:
  (1) Try to fit a few copies in cache and pound the hell out of them;
  (2) Fit a lot of copies in DRAM and use a lot of bandwidth.

Approach (1) is what's being done on CPUs.  Approach (2) is what's being done on GPUs.  I tried implementing #2 on CPU and couldn't get it to perform as well as my back-of-the-envelope analysis suggests it should, but it's possible it could outperform the current CPU implementations by about 20%.  (I believe yvg1900 tried something similar and came to the same conclusion I did).  An ASIC approach might well be better off with #2, however, but it simply moves the bottleneck to the memory controller, and it's a hard engineering job compared to building an AES unit, a 64 bit multiplier, and 2MB of DRAM.  But that 2MB of DRAM area limits you in a big way.

In my best professional opinion, barring funky weaknesses lingering within the single round of AES, CryptoNight is a very solid PoW.  Its only real disadvantage is comparatively slow verification time, which really hurts the time to download and verify the blockchain.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
‘Try to be nice’
OK... wait for my reply: ready...


Why not just use a trusted known PoW like the well used Quark algo? or another Complex proof of work because you know that its going to be on a GPU anyhow ?

Simple answer. The decision was not made by us.

Monero was launched as a clone of Bytecoin to address the massive premine/ninjamine. It was felt at the time that the best approach was to simply keep more or less everything from Bytecoin the same except the rate of mining and offering a clean pre-announced launch with no premine. This gave the community an easy choice between them, while making a whole bunch of other changes would have significantly muddied the waters.

Cryptonote, who claims to be the developers of the technology behind Bytecoin, has its own theories about how their algorithm is ASIC- and GPU-resistant, and how this leads to mining being what they call "egalitarian" and how in turn that is some sort of overall advantage (though they don't quite explain this).

Without commenting on their philosophy (in large part because I don't understand it), I will say that the PoW has proven to be a least somewhat GPU-resistant. Despite several GPU miners being developed, none has clearly demonstrated a major efficiency gain (in fact I'm not sure any of them have demonstrated any gain in hash/watt over CPU mining). People do mine with GPUs now, but people also still mine competitively with CPUs.







yeah its alway the same gag - "no one has shown the ability......"

A GPU device is essentially a packaged simplified "PC" its a;  Processor, Ram and Electricity, the market won't keep falling for the same gag.

next question:

Whats wrong with GPU's? 

The latest complex algos and the future ones will all be more or less minable on a broad range of old and new devices - CPU and GPU  this is as close to "egalitarian" as you will get. (even though that is a really retarded word to use.) (i know its not yours)

its just a free market finding equilibrium, that is all it is.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
OK... wait for my reply: ready...


Why not just use a trusted known PoW like the well used Quark algo? or another Complex proof of work because you know that its going to be on a GPU anyhow ?

Simple answer. The decision was not made by us.

Monero was launched as a clone of Bytecoin to address the massive premine/ninjamine. It was felt at the time that the best approach was to simply keep more or less everything from Bytecoin the same except the rate of mining and offering a clean pre-announced launch with no premine. This gave the community an easy choice between them, while making a whole bunch of other changes would have significantly muddied the waters.

Cryptonote, who claims to be the developers of the technology behind Bytecoin, has its own theories about how their algorithm is ASIC- and GPU-resistant, and how this leads to mining being what they call "egalitarian" and how in turn that is some sort of overall advantage (though they don't quite explain this).

Without commenting on their philosophy (in large part because I don't understand it), I will say that the PoW has proven to be a least somewhat GPU-resistant. Despite several GPU miners being developed, none has clearly demonstrated a major efficiency gain (in fact I'm not sure any of them have demonstrated any gain in hash/watt over CPU mining). People do mine with GPUs now, but people also still mine competitively with CPUs.





hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
‘Try to be nice’
same old :

"Pump and hold high " thing that always goes on with a "CPU" currency.

it all started with Litecoin and then there were many others, a few people have a bunch because they are utilizing a "tech insider" gimmick.

i won't call it a "scam" its just not successful that's all.

can only hold off the free market for so long fellas, meanwhile who's out first?

: D

It's not a "CPU currency", and efficiency improvements in the PoW hashing were open-sourced and merged into the main repository as they were done. Remember: we are not the CryptoNote developers (who wrote and released the PoW in the CryptoNote reference code), and we would simply not have had the time or ability to make optimisations to the PoW fast enough to give us an advantage.

We are completely, 100% donation supported. None of the core team members have any noteworthy stash of Monero, otherwise we'd just be covering costs ourselves instead of raising funds through donations.

OK... wait for my reply: ready...


Why not just use a trusted known PoW like the well used Quark algo? or another Complex proof of work because you know that its going to be on a GPU anyhow ?

for that matter if you have some special distaste for the Quark algo with its Random functions (still the only one that i know of) why not mix and match your own? - shake and bake add some random functions and let the whole market mine with PCP (Personal Computer Devices) from the start ?

simple.

by the way you have the freedom to what you want - i just don't think your model will be super successful that's all, because of the deteriorating return that will be felt as education flows though the market.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 509
I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!
lol, XMR is very hot now
and i can see some threads pop out here Tongue

I like Latium!  Grin

They give you coins just to join and you earn more coins on 100 referral levels!

I have made over 5000LAT and gotten over 0.50 BTC for them!

Best free altcoin ever!

Still not too late.
this thread talk about monero, why do you spam it with latium Roll Eyes

+1.
Why Moderators aren't doing any thing about the threads? I don't know whether it is a scam or not but why they are filling the forum with ANN and such things? Are they considering this forum as free ad slots? Roll Eyes
Kindly,
        MZ
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Was [BBR] not envisioned /announced at the same time, if not earlier than XMR independently?

Factually no.

XMR announce/launch: April 9/April 18
BBR announce/launch: April 20/May 17
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