I can't read a thread, or be bothered to read 31 USC 5324
Topic: Concerns regarding buying bitcoins offline(udercover cops) - What do you think? (Read 2559 times)
June 15, 2014, 06:56:30 PM
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June 15, 2014, 06:06:17 PM
I was thinking to buy some bitcoins but i have few concerns since using Localbitcoin is i am not sure really the right way to go. I did hear from few friends which they warned me that feds are trying to use sites like that to catch people selling their bitcoin in $5K or more in person and then they would accuse you of laundering money. (i dont want to go into jail because of bitcoins)
What do you think about this things? I did hear some sort of stories occur in past. It might be an issue to be aware off or not?
What do you think about this things? I did hear some sort of stories occur in past. It might be an issue to be aware off or not?
Just keep the amount of bitcoin you will buy or sell limited to less then 4 figures and you will be fine.
If you have repeat buyers just make sure they are spreading out their transactions enough so that it could not be considered "structuring"
June 15, 2014, 12:49:20 PM
Just follow the rules. Limit your nuy and sell to under 1k when dealing locally.
Avoid taking/doing bank deposit crossing state line and you should be fine.
Avoid taking/doing bank deposit crossing state line and you should be fine.
June 15, 2014, 08:22:53 AM
If you want to buy a limited number of bitcoins and you don't want to do anything illegal you are safe
June 15, 2014, 08:12:52 AM
I think the only reason that bitcoin is being looked at like this is because they think you're selling illegal substances or services. Either way,be safe and only buy them if you think it's worth the risk. They certainly can't arrest you,maybe just question you and leave.
June 14, 2014, 02:33:58 PM
And why would you want to buy BTC offline when you can buy it online ?
Forgot all that hassle and buy it online.
Forgot all that hassle and buy it online.
June 14, 2014, 02:18:02 PM
What? no. Haven't you ever watched reality TV cop shows? They lie about being a cop all the time!
Yes, reality TV is the proper source for legal opinions. Actually referencing case law such as Frazier v. Cupp apparently is not a valid source.
it is usually $1000+ that's illegal, not $5000... Don't listen to the other people in the thread who say otherwise...they are clueless.
Here we go again, more reality TV legal opinions. Of course we should ignore that 18 USC 1956, 1957 and 1960 completely contradicts you, and the OP of this thread.
1. Why don't you just split up the transactions
3. I don't think that it is a big issue as long as you do not buy everything in 1 massive transaction.
3. I don't think that it is a big issue as long as you do not buy everything in 1 massive transaction.
The amount of stupid in this thread is starting to make my head hurt. See 31 USC 5324
4. Buy on Coinbase and then put the coins through a tumbler into another wallet.
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/25722/bitlaunders-mixer-vs-major-exchanges-mixer/25753#25753
June 13, 2014, 07:37:35 PM
1. Why don't you just split up the transactions
2. If they are trying to catch Bitcoin sellers, then why are you concerned about being busted as a buyer?
3. I don't think that it is a big issue as long as you do not buy everything in 1 massive transaction.
4. Buy on Coinbase and then put the coins through a tumbler into another wallet. It turns out to be cheaper than most LocalBitcoin advertisements and is physically safer than Localbitcoins.
This is all assuming that you want your Bitcoins to be anonymous? If not, just buy on Coinbase and don't be sketched out about Bitcoin, it isn't like you are buying drugs
2. If they are trying to catch Bitcoin sellers, then why are you concerned about being busted as a buyer?
3. I don't think that it is a big issue as long as you do not buy everything in 1 massive transaction.
4. Buy on Coinbase and then put the coins through a tumbler into another wallet. It turns out to be cheaper than most LocalBitcoin advertisements and is physically safer than Localbitcoins.
This is all assuming that you want your Bitcoins to be anonymous? If not, just buy on Coinbase and don't be sketched out about Bitcoin, it isn't like you are buying drugs
Tumbler?
April 08, 2014, 01:44:41 PM
Don't know what was written, didn't read thread, but if they say they want to buy sketch shit while your sale is underway, don't deal with them.
No person actually wanting to do sketch shit would say so publicly anyway, so obv law enforcement scam.
No person actually wanting to do sketch shit would say so publicly anyway, so obv law enforcement scam.
March 30, 2014, 08:42:28 PM
Do you guys really think that any state agency would go that far? Seems very tinfoilheaded from my POV 
March 28, 2014, 04:27:15 PM
Before buying or selling, make sure you know the max you can sell or buy per day per person in your place of residence, then never suggest you would ever buy for illegal purposes and never sell to someone that says or suggests in any way that it will be used for purposes that are illegal. Also, never ask for the purpose of the funds being bought and never tell your intent of the funds being sold. Basic rules of thumb that you should always be aware of.
March 28, 2014, 01:38:24 PM
Don't sell to anyone who mentions anything illegal they would be doing with the coins and you are fine.
If the buyer is like, "Yeah, I'm gunna head over to the darknet and buy some stolen CC numbers as soon as I get my hands on these coins," Don't sell. Duh.
If the buyer is like, "Yeah, I'm gunna head over to the darknet and buy some stolen CC numbers as soon as I get my hands on these coins," Don't sell. Duh.
I just don't get why these Florida defendants would even go through with the deals, when someone started talking like that. The entrapment deals did involve unusually high amounts of money though.
If I were a face-to-face bitcoin dealer, I'd probably stick with a self-imposed rule of $500/day per person, for my own personal safety, as well as being below the reporting requirements for a federal Suspicious Activities Report.
March 28, 2014, 11:47:38 AM
And btw, it doesn't matter that much if they tell you the bitcoins will be used for illegal activity or not. I mean that is a red flag but the guys arrested in FL for selling over $300 in bitcoin per day weren't charged with that. They were charged with selling over $300 in BTC.
So bottom line is that if you sell over the legal max (which is $300 in Florida), then you CAN be arrested and prosecuted and sent to prison for that.
Don't listen to the other people in the thread who say otherwise...they are clueless. Or just take some time and research it yourself and don't trust me or the others, but they are wrong.
And I'm not saying don't sell bitcoin, but just telling what the reality is.
So bottom line is that if you sell over the legal max (which is $300 in Florida), then you CAN be arrested and prosecuted and sent to prison for that.
Don't listen to the other people in the thread who say otherwise...they are clueless. Or just take some time and research it yourself and don't trust me or the others, but they are wrong.
And I'm not saying don't sell bitcoin, but just telling what the reality is.
March 28, 2014, 11:44:17 AM
Why is it illegal to sell $5K of a commodity?
it is usually $1000+ that's illegal, not $5000 and in Florida, it is $300
And it's illegal because the people with guns and tanks says it is.
March 28, 2014, 09:40:25 AM
Don't sell to anyone who mentions anything illegal they would be doing with the coins and you are fine.
If the buyer is like, "Yeah, I'm gunna head over to the darknet and buy some stolen CC numbers as soon as I get my hands on these coins," Don't sell. Duh.
You could even make your buyer sign a bill of sale stating that they aren't going to do anything illegal with the coins. If they don't want to sign, don't sell.
A bill of sale is often used to protect the seller from various things (lawsuits, etc.). Maybe some intelligent lawyers could get together and create a "Bitcoin" bill of sale.
http://www.billofsale-form.com/blank-bill-of-sale-form/
Obviously, this harms anonymity, but it is an additional step required to protect yourself if you live in a place where silly crimes like "money laundering" can turn innocent people into criminals.
If the buyer is like, "Yeah, I'm gunna head over to the darknet and buy some stolen CC numbers as soon as I get my hands on these coins," Don't sell. Duh.
You could even make your buyer sign a bill of sale stating that they aren't going to do anything illegal with the coins. If they don't want to sign, don't sell.
A bill of sale is often used to protect the seller from various things (lawsuits, etc.). Maybe some intelligent lawyers could get together and create a "Bitcoin" bill of sale.
http://www.billofsale-form.com/blank-bill-of-sale-form/
Obviously, this harms anonymity, but it is an additional step required to protect yourself if you live in a place where silly crimes like "money laundering" can turn innocent people into criminals.
Actually just dont even ask the question. The Bill of sale is unnecessary.
Maybe it's unnecessary for you, but maybe it's necessary for someone else? That's the beauty of p2p, there are no set rules. Do what works for you. If you live in a fascist country that likes to try and trick it's law abiding citizens into doing something which has been declared illegal, you had better protect yourself.
Most definitely have to do that, even less rules apply there, i know it from first hand. It is a weird world anyway we live in but cool still.
March 28, 2014, 09:22:18 AM
Don't sell to anyone who mentions anything illegal they would be doing with the coins and you are fine.
If the buyer is like, "Yeah, I'm gunna head over to the darknet and buy some stolen CC numbers as soon as I get my hands on these coins," Don't sell. Duh.
You could even make your buyer sign a bill of sale stating that they aren't going to do anything illegal with the coins. If they don't want to sign, don't sell.
A bill of sale is often used to protect the seller from various things (lawsuits, etc.). Maybe some intelligent lawyers could get together and create a "Bitcoin" bill of sale.
http://www.billofsale-form.com/blank-bill-of-sale-form/
Obviously, this harms anonymity, but it is an additional step required to protect yourself if you live in a place where silly crimes like "money laundering" can turn innocent people into criminals.
If the buyer is like, "Yeah, I'm gunna head over to the darknet and buy some stolen CC numbers as soon as I get my hands on these coins," Don't sell. Duh.
You could even make your buyer sign a bill of sale stating that they aren't going to do anything illegal with the coins. If they don't want to sign, don't sell.
A bill of sale is often used to protect the seller from various things (lawsuits, etc.). Maybe some intelligent lawyers could get together and create a "Bitcoin" bill of sale.
http://www.billofsale-form.com/blank-bill-of-sale-form/
Obviously, this harms anonymity, but it is an additional step required to protect yourself if you live in a place where silly crimes like "money laundering" can turn innocent people into criminals.
Actually just dont even ask the question. The Bill of sale is unnecessary.
March 28, 2014, 09:18:47 AM
i am not retarded as someon implied here, i was just curious what the general bitcoin community thinks regarding that, that is all.
Great conversation going on as i see.
Great conversation going on as i see.
March 28, 2014, 09:15:17 AM
Best not to sell that much bitcoins offline.
March 28, 2014, 09:12:18 AM
You probably heard about this story: http://www.virtualcurrencyreport.com/2014/02/two-florida-users-of-localbitcoins-com-arrested-for-money-laundering-and-unlicensed-money-transmission/
There are a couple of things to take away from this article.
1) "Where a seller of bitcoin knows (or has reason to believe) that the transaction involves proceeds derived from or to be used in furtherance of illegal activity, this could separately result in charges under state anti-money laundering laws."
The undercover agents reportedly very explicitly stated that they intended to use the proceeds to pursue illegal activities. Helping someone commit a crime is, of course, illegal which is one reason they were charged.
2) "...Florida law enforcement has determined that engaging in the business of direct sales of bitcoin in Florida or to Florida residents requires a Florida money services business." (Emphasis mine.)
Each state has their own money transmission laws and they do not necessarily coincide with every other state. At the Texas Bitcoin Conference, Russell Reese, Director of the Texas Department of Banking, specifically stated that Texas has no official standing on virtual currencies but that individual, person-to-person trades DID NOT constitute money transmission. (Interestingly, this was in regards to a question about Bitcoin ATMs and he indicated that even if one used a machine to facilitate selling your own bitcoins, it was still considered a "person-to-person" exchange.)
There are a couple of things to take away from this article.
1) "Where a seller of bitcoin knows (or has reason to believe) that the transaction involves proceeds derived from or to be used in furtherance of illegal activity, this could separately result in charges under state anti-money laundering laws."
The undercover agents reportedly very explicitly stated that they intended to use the proceeds to pursue illegal activities. Helping someone commit a crime is, of course, illegal which is one reason they were charged.
2) "...Florida law enforcement has determined that engaging in the business of direct sales of bitcoin in Florida or to Florida residents requires a Florida money services business." (Emphasis mine.)
Each state has their own money transmission laws and they do not necessarily coincide with every other state. At the Texas Bitcoin Conference, Russell Reese, Director of the Texas Department of Banking, specifically stated that Texas has no official standing on virtual currencies but that individual, person-to-person trades DID NOT constitute money transmission. (Interestingly, this was in regards to a question about Bitcoin ATMs and he indicated that even if one used a machine to facilitate selling your own bitcoins, it was still considered a "person-to-person" exchange.)
March 28, 2014, 09:10:30 AM
Didnt even need to read all that
Here is a simple solution for you, cops are supposed to say yes when you ask "are you a cop"?
Just ask everytime you meet a local trader.
Here is a simple solution for you, cops are supposed to say yes when you ask "are you a cop"?
Just ask everytime you meet a local trader.
(sigh) You really need to educate yourself on that issue. Completely wrong.
No way bitch!
My homies and i are deep in street. We're popping the question everytime we see a bitch "are you a cop bitch"
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