Topic: [confirmed] SCAMMER: user Leon (Read 14072 times)

i'm still out over $800 and still have not gotten a penny back yet. i also updated the first post to consolidate the evidence as well as all his personal info i found

So when can i get my money back?

Dwolla Support
AUG 10, 2011  |  07:06AM CDT
*****,
You can expect to see the funds in your Dwolla account in the next 24-48 hours.

Best regards!

Leon, not escrow... go stat another thread.
people came here looking for info on Leon.
NOT ESCROW SERVICES.

Leon, not escrow... go stat another thread.
people came here looking for info on Leon.
NOT ESCROW SERVICES.




that.

someone close this damn thread already.

someone close this damn thread already.

IMHO BTCrow's posts in this thread are perfectly appropriate. I learned a thing or two in them.

First, this is a thread about LEON, not your escrow service.
Second, stop trolling for customers in threads you didn't start.
Third, stop posting in unrelated forums to sell your service, you spammer.
Fourth, if I were going to use an escrow service I wouldn't use one owned by a spamming troll.

It always depend on how escrow service manage the arbitration process. Here's the rules my escrow force to do once there's a dispute before going to arbitration process:

i don't know how you manage to find all this info on him, but thank you. i'll try to use this to maybe call his local authorities. so far there has been 9 people that said they have been scammed by this guy. if you also have been scammed by him and do not wish it to be public, then please PM me instead.

any of you got your money back yet? who paid through dwolla? i requested his dwolla account to be locked, but dwolla declined that request until another person filed a dispute against him on dwolla. i'm not sure who that person was, but his account is now suspended, so if you paid through dwolla, please file a dispute. i think even if you paid with BTC, try to file a dispute through dwolla anyways because he converted that BTC to dollars and moved it into dwolla. if he scammed you by BTC, you MIGHT be able to get your money back, but in dollars instead of BTC, so try to file a dispute anyways.

I agree with everything Inaba has said. As a buyer I would not trust a donation escrow, as I am out bitcoins whether transaction goes through or not. Way to much risk there. Heatware should be implemented in every transaction. There is always going to be risk in any transaction, yes an escrow can try to fully account for all angles but I imagine the fee will be hefty. The whole benefit of bitcoins is the no transaction fee, no disputations, the anonymity of it all. Escrow service for bitcoin trading is a good idea but I would run from donation type escrow services(I need to be assured that if the deal goes south, I can get my bitcoins back). Till then, I will only deal with someone with some reputable Heat(Linked my limited heat).

Do NOT use donation escrow services.  These are the stupidest idea I've ever seen implemented in an escrow service. 

Escrow is meant to protect both parties.  An escrow service that protects only one party is effectively not really an escrow service, and an "escrow" service that sends the money to a "donation" in the event of a default is just asking for all sorts of trouble.  I would never, ever, ever agree to a donation escrow as a buyer.  Donation escrows are only harmful to the process, they do not provide any benefit.  There is no risk to the scammer by using donation escrow or not using it - either way they won't get the money, but if they do use it, at the very least they can use it to fuck you so you don't get your money back in the event of a default.  On top of that, they can also be used as a harassment tool even if someone isn't a scammer in the sense of them trying to take your money.

An escrow service requires an arbitration process.  Any escrow service without an arbitration process is nothing more than "Hey Bob, will you hold my wad of cash for a few days?"  And you don't know Bob.  And Bob might give your money to the Red Cross if the seller tells him to.

As far as feedback/ratings go, there's already a site, it's called HEATWARE.  I use it on here as well as other forums.  It should be the standard for here, just like it is at so many other For Sale forums around the world.

It's nothing like 80 cents for insurance at the post office.  It's not even kind of like it.  It's not even vaguely related to it.  See the rest of my post below:

kokojie & kgo:

I am finding it really difficult to believe you two are so deluded or naive to think that people won't do stuff to fuck with other people just for the hell of it (or for the lulz as the case may be).  Just because you've annoyed me in this post, I am going to create a fake account and sell you something through a donation escrow when you least expect it.


Your experience must be exceptionally limited then.  There is nothing good about a donation escrow.  It's a bastardization of the escrow process that screws all parties.  I also have serious questions as to whether or not a given escrow service would even send the money to the donation service listed, but that's another discussion entirely.  There is nothing a donation escrow service offers that is of value to anyone except the escrow operator.  In a defaulted situation, if the money doesn't go back to the seller, the whole transaction is pointless;  The seller is out their goods and the buyer is out their money.  Yes, the buyer might get the dubious "satisfaction" of knowing that the seller does not get any money, but this fallacy comes at the cost of allowing literally anyone to screw with any seller at any time with no reprecussions at all.  Again, if you are of the belief that people won't do that just for the hell of it and especially to exact some sort of revenge on someone, you are deluding yourselves.


And this braindead donation escrow eliminates this how?  It doesn't, it just provides yet MORE opportunity to get creative to screw over someone with zero reprecussions.  Not only does it not solve a problem, it creates another one in the process.  The buyer could have every reason to screw over the seller - there is not "zero" reason.


I agree, there is no risk to the scammer without an escrow service.  There is also no risk to the scammer WITH a donation escrow service.  The donation escrow service adds NOTHING to the process and adds one additional avenue of harassment.  That was my original point - it doesn't add anything except more problems.  A monetary return is not always the incentive or goal of a scammer/harassment/forthelulz person.


Now you are contradicting yourself.  Either a donation escrow service enforces the "if in default, it goes to charity" or it does not.  If it does not, it doesn't fulfill it's design parameters.  If it does, then the buyer can easily force it by reporting it in default.  Your scenario is nothing like an escrow donation service.  Escrow donation is literally "Hey Bob, hold my money.  If you hear ANYTHING but 'Give him this money', throw it away and burn it."  So then Jim can say "Hey Bob, fuck off." and poof there goes your money.  That's the fallacy and ridiculousness of escrow donation.  Donation can be forced (by either party, but more importantly by the person buying) putting the control of the transaction in the buyer's hands when it should be in neither hands - that is the point of escrow.


Far more than you are apparently aware of.  

As far as your second sentence in that quote, then you are arbitrating at that point and your arguments for a donation escrow fall completely apart (which they were already in shreds to begin with).  If the deal can be reversed due to certain conditions, then that is a form of arbitration.  Crude and rudimentary, but none the less that's what it is.


Really?  You can't imagine this scenario off the top of your head:

You've annoyed me somehow or I just pick you at random to fuck with.  I setup a fake account and offer to sell something I know you'll be interested in at an attractive price.  I deny all other offers privately and offer to sell to you for 25 BTC but I demand that you use an escrow service... but to show I'm magnanimous I offer to let you use the donation based escrow.  I tell you "Hey, to prove I'm not a scammer you can set it to donation so I won't get anything if I screw you." You think "Hey, that's cool, here  Mr. Donation Escrow, is my hard earned 25 BTC."

Now you're out 25 BTC and I dislike you because you've annoyed me.  I have to do nothing further.  I just cost you 25 BTC and have to do nothing but create a fake account and offer a product at an attractive price.

Now expand this scenario with someone how wants to fuck with a group of people... instead of taking just your offer, I can take several offers and screw 3 or 4 or more people out of their money, thereby undermining confidence in BTC.  All because there's a donation based escrow.



I have two words for you:  4chan - /b/

And that's just one example.

I was, of course, lying at the top of the post about creating a fake account to sell you something.  Or was I?  You will never know and now you'll question every transaction you make through a donation escrow because it MIGHT be me just fucking with you because you've annoyed me.  You'll eventually be lulled into a false sense of security when nothing happens in the next month or two, but then BAM.  Or maybe it'll happen on your next transaction.  Am I serious?