Topic: [confirmed] SCAMMER: user Leon - page 3. (Read 14072 times)

+1

OT and likely to be controversial. I believe ADR/Arbitration should operate with no emotion whatsover, no conflict of interest (or recuse), incentive to rule based on contract and evidence alone and a disincentive to rule on fairness. I don't know that all of those areas can be covered, but close to it I think is possible.

Do NOT use donation escrow services.  These are the stupidest idea I've ever seen implemented in an escrow service. 

Escrow is meant to protect both parties.  An escrow service that protects only one party is effectively not really an escrow service, and an "escrow" service that sends the money to a "donation" in the event of a default is just asking for all sorts of trouble.  I would never, ever, ever agree to a donation escrow as a buyer.  Donation escrows are only harmful to the process, they do not provide any benefit.  There is no risk to the scammer by using donation escrow or not using it - either way they won't get the money, but if they do use it, at the very least they can use it to fuck you so you don't get your money back in the event of a default.  On top of that, they can also be used as a harassment tool even if someone isn't a scammer in the sense of them trying to take your money.

An escrow service requires an arbitration process.  Any escrow service without an arbitration process is nothing more than "Hey Bob, will you hold my wad of cash for a few days?"  And you don't know Bob.  And Bob might give your money to the Red Cross if the seller tells him to.

As far as feedback/ratings go, there's already a site, it's called HEATWARE.  I use it on here as well as other forums.  It should be the standard for here, just like it is at so many other For Sale forums around the world.

We need someone to organize a list of escrow services. We a list of where you can leave feedback/ratings. A guide on how to avoid getting scammed. It should be a sticky in the marketplace. The existing threads aren't very good, hard to search and don't help much to be honest.

If someone wants to get organized, get a master list together, pull together all the tips/tricks (checking his paypal email, his ebay, his bitcoin-otc.com profile). The avoid 99% of paypal scams thread has lots of good tips. I'd kick in a .5 btc bounty for whoever can pull it off. You can probably replace 3 of the sticky threads with one good one.

If someone selling items has no ebay, no bitcoin-otc, no history, use escrow. The problem now is we need people leaving feedback, ratings, on these sites so people can build up a transparent history. Posting john314 + rocks on the whitelist thread isn't going to get seen by anyone.

Food for thought. =)

no need to apologize, everything has already been said and done, it won't undo all of these scams... but thank you anyways for the apology. i believe this is the biggest scam on this forum, involving at least 8 victims to the same guy. i'll be sending you a PM in a few minutes on all his info i know to be posted on your website. but i think all that information is already on this thread.

what surprises me is that even after i posted this thread and spammed his new sale thread to NOT buy his stuff, people still bought his stuff and even the same 6990s that i had already paid for and later wanted out. i didn't even get the supposed refund for the 6990s yet, and 1 or 2 people still paid for them

i've been talking to dwolla, they finally suspended his dwolla account so makes it a little harder to move money from mtgox to his bank account, or scam others directly paying with dwolla. i could probably post my chat with them later

That's confirmation, in my book.

That's the way my escrow service works.  See the link in my sig.  It's an affordable way to provide some protection to both parties, but isn't perfect.

For something like this though, almost $1000 dollars worth of merchandise, it might be worth seeking a service where there is some actual dispute resolution.  Unless you really want to donate $1000 to the bitcoin faucet.

The idea is, if the seller refuses to use escrow, that's a big red flag that they are a scammer.

deal falls through, money goes to the fountain, or another bitcoin charity.

Oh, yea, I know it's for the buyers protection, that is why I will use it to insure the seller "me" is good, to deal with.

LOL@ address part, very true.


How does this works?

Escrow is mostly for buyer protection, and I always offer it because it let's my buyer know they are protected.

As a buyer they have no reason to screw over the seller (me), because buyers are not getting any money back from escrow regardless what happens (sellers should always demand donation type escrow). Buyer would not intentionally screw over the seller, because seller knows their address and why piss off someone that knows your name and address for no reason?

That's what I'm saying, all buyers should just demand escrow for transactions more than 1 BTC, scammers will be all gone from here.

I'm going to look into this escrow thing. I will use it if I go to sell something which I am planning to do once I mine a few more BTC's to cover mail cost coverage for any items that get shipped.

Be a pretty stupid scammer that agreed to use escrow, eh?

Why no one used escrow? I sold a ton of 5830s here, and as a seller I always said I will accept escrow, even though my forum post count, customer feedback posts and registration date would've allowed me to not take escrow.

Demand escrow acceptance from your sellers!!!

I still think there should be a secondary "trust" profile linked to all forum profiles, in which, users can leave feedback about transactions with users, in an easily accessible way.

Users without trust or significantly send goods first as common etiquite (e.g. he would have had to have sent cards first assuming you had some trust).

This is what another forum I use for computer parts does, and it's worked well for 5 years. 

Please can we have. 

I dont believe an escrow service is the right solution here.

Sorry to hear about everyone's losses. I've been lurking this thread for some time now.


Sure does. And not just BTC but new comers like myself. Puts a bad position for new comers that are here legitimately to trading, buying selling etc.

Just nodding my head.

I agree, I am working on a system right now to have escrow + arbitration. Should be done and ready for deployment sometime in the next 2 weeks.

Any escrow service is barely useful if there is no arbitration process.  There absolutely must be an arbitration process for any Bitcoin escrow service to be of any real value.

I have a idea for a service that would be a arbitration platform / public contract. Those of you with the escrow sites are encouraged to contact me so we can discuss how to bring it to light. It should be pretty easy, and would offer at least some rock solid evidence that in a sense could protect currency sellers by giving companies (like paypal) some real evidence, or escrow sites some evidence to go off of for arbitration.
pm me
thx
Sorry Haploid
Be Careful Everyone!!

Oh yeah nice work if thats really him. I love that info diggin'