Contrary to Mt.Gox’s Statement, Bitcoin is not at fault - Gavin Andresen 10/2/14 - page 5.

justusranvier

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Quote from: bitsaber on February 10, 2014, 07:14:07 PM

So the transaction malleability problem was created in 2010 and reported in 2011.

No.

Transactions have always been malleable prior to being included in a block. This wasn't really apparent until 2011.

There's nothing wrong with txid, the only problem is inaccurately assuming that it's immutable, and especially not noticing when changes to the blockchain affect your balance in ways you weren't expecting.

bitsaber

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Quote from: darkmule on February 10, 2014, 07:09:43 PM

In 2010. If I recall correctly 2010 is before 2011.

So the transaction malleability problem was created in 2010 and reported in 2011.

justusranvier

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Quote from: darkmule on February 10, 2014, 07:07:41 PM

The problem is, if I'm understanding it reduced to its simplest level, relying on transaction information that is NOT YET ON THE BLOCKCHAIN. It kind of boggles my mind anyone could base any reliance for verifying deposits to a system on anything whatsoever not on the blockchain, even for tracking purposes.

Not only relying on information that is not yet in the blockchain, but also not paying attention to relevant information in the blockchain because you think you preliminary information is canonical.

darkmule

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Quote from: wolongong on February 10, 2014, 07:04:07 PM

Quote from: bitsaber on February 10, 2014, 06:15:09 PM

Quote from: Kouye on February 10, 2014, 05:53:07 PM

The problem is not "why is it not done yet", but more "why is it more urgent than taking care of bitcoin's ability to handle much larger transaction volume"?

That seems like a 1.0 feature to me. Addressing transaction malleability, on the other hand, could fit just fine in the 0.x.x roadmap. Nobody (at least to my knowledge) said anything about fixing it overnight.

I'm not saying Mt. Gox are the good guys here (they clearly screwed up), but shouldn't Gavin Andresen have accepted some responsibility?

Guess who came up with the idea to use the txid for auditing/tracking in the first place .. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/proposed-change-to-sendtoaddress-api-call-807

In 2010. If I recall correctly 2010 is before 2011.

darkmule

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Quote from: bitsaber on February 10, 2014, 05:41:20 PM

I hate to be the devil's advocate here (especially being a newbie), but how does "known about since 2011" fit with "cannot be corrected overnight"?

There are plenty of known issues with Bitcoin, some of them more or less serious. This, frankly, is one of the less serious issues, since it only arises when people design custom software very, very badly. Gox and its principals were well aware of this particular issue, having been told about it personally, but chose to design defective software. This wasn't even accidental.

The problem is, if I'm understanding it reduced to its simplest level, relying on transaction information that is NOT YET ON THE BLOCKCHAIN. It kind of boggles my mind anyone could base any reliance for verifying deposits to a system on anything whatsoever not on the blockchain, even for tracking purposes.

It's clearly non-optimal to use this information at all, but the downside of it could have been very easily avoided. I hope no other exchanges operate this way, but I honestly don't know.

wolongong

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Quote from: bitsaber on February 10, 2014, 06:15:09 PM

Quote from: Kouye on February 10, 2014, 05:53:07 PM

The problem is not "why is it not done yet", but more "why is it more urgent than taking care of bitcoin's ability to handle much larger transaction volume"?

That seems like a 1.0 feature to me. Addressing transaction malleability, on the other hand, could fit just fine in the 0.x.x roadmap. Nobody (at least to my knowledge) said anything about fixing it overnight.

I'm not saying Mt. Gox are the good guys here (they clearly screwed up), but shouldn't Gavin Andresen have accepted some responsibility?

Guess who came up with the idea to use the txid for auditing/tracking in the first place .. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/proposed-change-to-sendtoaddress-api-call-807

BitCoinNutJob

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Quote from: Kouye on February 10, 2014, 06:26:58 PM

Quote from: BitCoinNutJob on February 10, 2014, 06:23:02 PM

how long before the Japanese start waiting outside MtGox everyday

italian, swedish or texan people will probably beat the japanese to it.
Oh wait.
You know MtGox is not a japanese company, right?

They have offices in japan, fuck this guys its time to apply some pressure, gox CEO has over 300k BTC he can pay until they sort their shit out.

We need to team up with some locals

bitsaber

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Quote from: Kouye on February 10, 2014, 06:26:58 PM

italian, swedish or texan people will probably beat the japanese to it.
You know MtGox is not a japanese company, right?

The Texan people probably won't get past airport security (with their firearms and all)...

NanoAkron

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Quote from: Kouye on February 10, 2014, 06:26:58 PM

Oh wait.You know MtGox is not a japanese company, right?

Riiiiight. They're only based in Tokyo. Definitely not a Japanese company.

Kouye

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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.

Quote from: BitCoinNutJob on February 10, 2014, 06:23:02 PM

how long before the Japanese start waiting outside MtGox everyday

italian, swedish or texan people will probably beat the japanese to it.
Oh wait.
You know MtGox is not a japanese company, right?

BitCoinNutJob

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how long before the Japanese start waiting outside MtGox everyday

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

Quote from: whtchocla7e on February 10, 2014, 12:42:38 PM

...
You say that like it shouldn't be somebody's responsibility to provide me with it?

The software is Open Source and many people donate time for no pay. "Responsibility" depends on who has the time/skill to do/fix things.

Kouye

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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.

Quote from: bitsaber on February 10, 2014, 06:15:09 PM

I'm not saying Mt. Gox are the good guys here (they clearly screwed up), but shouldn't Gavin Andresen have accepted some responsibility?

Responsibility for MtGox choosing to willingly donate coins to people asking for them to their support team?
Let me think....
Err, no.

bitsaber

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Quote from: Kouye on February 10, 2014, 05:53:07 PM

The problem is not "why is it not done yet", but more "why is it more urgent than taking care of bitcoin's ability to handle much larger transaction volume"?

That seems like a 1.0 feature to me. Addressing transaction malleability, on the other hand, could fit just fine in the 0.x.x roadmap. Nobody (at least to my knowledge) said anything about fixing it overnight.

I'm not saying Mt. Gox are the good guys here (they clearly screwed up), but shouldn't Gavin Andresen have accepted some responsibility?

leopard2

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Gox is not ashamed to throw dirt at BTC to divert blame from themselves pulling the market down 20% in the process, this is revolting Angry

Certainly it is also the bank's fault that fiat isn't flowing either Roll Eyes

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

What could be at fault too, is that many people have misunderstood the role of exchanges. They're not banks. Nobody should leave its BTC there. People should buy BTC through an exchange and once the transaction is done, they should move away, sending immediately their BTC to their own wallet in their home computer.

BitCoinNutJob

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i say we demand manual withdraws or heads start rolling, fuck this shit guys

Kouye

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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.

Quote from: bitsaber on February 10, 2014, 05:41:20 PM

I hate to be the devil's advocate here (especially being a newbie), but how does "known about since 2011" fit with "cannot be corrected overnight"?

Thanks for refocusing on this post.
The problem is not "why is it not done yet", but more "why is it more urgent than taking care of bitcoin's ability to handle much larger transaction volume"?

The answer is simple.

It's on the same level as
"why is this label text still purple when it should be blue"

vs

"why is this label text stating..."

Code:

how much do you want to earn

instead of

Code:

how much do you want to give away

bitsaber

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I started a separate topic by mistake, so I'll repost it here:

Quote from: bitsaber on February 10, 2014, 05:13:46 PM

I hate to be the devil's advocate here (especially being a newbie), but how does "known about since 2011" fit with "cannot be corrected overnight"?

Holliday

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Quote from: nwbitcoin on February 10, 2014, 02:13:42 PM

Maybe it might be an idea to see MTGox being removed from the foundation until they can prove that they are worthy of such a coveted position within the community?

I think Gox has had ample time to prove themselves. They've proven something alright. They've proven that they are a cancer and that cancer should be removed before it can do any more damage.

Topic: Contrary to Mt.Gox’s Statement, Bitcoin is not at fault - Gavin Andresen 10/2/14 - page 5. (Read 13141 times)