Topic: Couple was forcibly ask by IRS to sell their crypto to pay their liabilities (Read 898 times)
September 16, 2020, 08:15:12 AM
If it was me I’d just file for bankruptcy & deny all knowledge of bitcoin. I’d say that I got hacked or something & don’t have access to those coins any more. There’s no way I’d be selling all of my bitcoin to pay debts.
September 16, 2020, 07:58:02 AM
So after having read that summary i cant really understand how that couple thought the IRS would let them of the hook for their liabilities just because most of their money ( 7 million) was tied up in crypto currency. I mean fair enough if they were to make an argument that they needed a month or so to liquidate the money to discharge the liability but asking for 6 years seems to be a bit much u cant really claim bankruptcy or being unable to discharge your debts (whether taxes or banks loans or whatsoever) while having that much in assets whether that be in Cryptocurrencies, real estate, stocks etc. ( unless of course you hadn't declared your crypto holdings and purchases in the first place but that's another scenario all together, Incidentally another reason why NO-KYC exchanges are so highly valued)
As far as any tax authority is concerned ( assuming they know about your crypto holdings) what they demanded in this case seems pretty fair. Also wouldn't the IRS letting them off the Hook here only encourage ( setting a legal precedent) people to buy crypto currencies come tax season as a method of avoiding your tax liabilities.
As far as any tax authority is concerned ( assuming they know about your crypto holdings) what they demanded in this case seems pretty fair. Also wouldn't the IRS letting them off the Hook here only encourage ( setting a legal precedent) people to buy crypto currencies come tax season as a method of avoiding your tax liabilities.
August 09, 2020, 06:56:46 PM
The IRS can go jump in a lake because taxation is theft. Shouldn't have to pay these thugs a dime no matter what the circumstances.
August 09, 2020, 12:47:39 AM
While the couples move is understandable, the reaction from the IRS is too. Only death and taxes are certain so if you are a smart person you calculate that in your investment plan. As for attempt to confiscate or seize the money, it´s just as it is everywhere. If you own money to the state, they are eager to "motivate" you to pay asap. If the state owns you money, it could last 2-3 months until something happens
August 09, 2020, 12:24:39 AM
I don't see any problems here. A married couple has a million dollars in debt to the IRS, which they do not deny. At the same time, they have about seven million dollars in cryptocurrency. However, they do not want to withdraw some of their cryptocurrency assets, possibly due to the fact that they expect profit.
These difficulties are not the tax authorities. They rightly suggested to the couple to voluntarily pay off the debt at the expense of savings in cryptocurrency. They cannot withdraw the cryptocurrency and forcibly repay the debt at the expense of it, since they do not have access to the private keys of their wallets. If the tax debt is not paid, the tax service may well enforce the property of the married couple through the court. This couple, therefore, has a choice.
These difficulties are not the tax authorities. They rightly suggested to the couple to voluntarily pay off the debt at the expense of savings in cryptocurrency. They cannot withdraw the cryptocurrency and forcibly repay the debt at the expense of it, since they do not have access to the private keys of their wallets. If the tax debt is not paid, the tax service may well enforce the property of the married couple through the court. This couple, therefore, has a choice.
July 01, 2020, 07:02:57 AM
It depends on how much debt do I have. sometimes when I can no longer find some money to pay my debt, I go to my cousins they have some fortunes though which is the very best option I have. they always pay for me my debt and will pay them later when I find some money to pay them. the good thing about them is they don't give me an ultimatum to pay my debt, they give me free time to pay. Anyway, the question here is talking about huge amount of debt which is no doubt a big problem for the debtors. I won't regret paying it with my cryptocurrencies since things like this can happen nowadays we should ready for something like this to happen to us.
July 01, 2020, 05:40:05 AM
It is an extremely interesting story. I still thought till now, that government organisations don't even know something about crypto and they are not looking if someone has some investment in it. That's why I like more P2P exchanges, cause there is much harder to track how much I bought money.
June 28, 2020, 06:15:18 AM
What kind of lawyer do they have haha.
One who told them what they wanted to hear for the amount of money he wanted to hear.
Maybe he's retiring in a few weeks. That's the only possible explanation for the sheer outlandishness.
Aye, that usually be the case, especially with people who got money by being really lucky, rather than by being really hardworking -- a sweeping statement I know but when you hear stories like this, you really got to wonder how lucky these guys must have been to be able to be in a position to make such decisions.
June 28, 2020, 05:26:25 AM
In summary:
- Alexander and Laura Strashny filed income tax return due in 2017, but unable to pay
- they sent IRS letters proposing to pay the liability in iinstallments over a period of 6 years
- IRS received the proposal recorded it and put in in pending status
- As of December 2018, the outstanding liability + interest exceeded $1 million
- IRS sent petition notice "Intent to Seize Your Assets" and Notice of Your Right to a Hearing.
- Petitioners timely requested a CDPhearing, expressinginterest in an installment agreement (IA) and attaching a copyof their previously submitted Forms 433-A and 9465. They did notcheck the boxindicating thattheycould not pay the balance, and they did notdispute theirunderlyingliability for 2017.
- SO review the case and saw that they have a huge cryptocurrency investment
- SO eceived from petitioners’ repre-sentative a copy of their 2018 tax return, which reported wages exceeding $200,000, and investment statements showing cryptocurrency assets valued over$7 million. During the conference the SO noted that petitioners were currently
- 4-[*4] withdrawing$19,000 per month from their cryptocurrency account, and she asked why they could not liquidate or borrow against those assets in order to discharge their tax liabilityin full.
- Lawyers for the petitioners argue that they are unable to draw on their cryptocurrency account to pay their liability.
- On June 25, 2019, the IRS issued a notice of determination sustaining the proposed levy, rejecting petitioners’ request for an IA, and stating that “[l]evyaction is permitted 30 daysafter the rejection.
https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/USTCInOP/OpinionViewer.aspx?ID=12258
There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?
Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?
There are still countries that we cannot use crypto currency because they haven't yet legalize it so we cannot disobey their rules or else we are going to jail. If your country is not yet accepted crypto currency then wait for it to get legalize or migrate to another country where crypto currency is legal. Bitcoin is the crypto currency that has the biggest number of countries where it is legal since it is the first crypto currency that is launched way back 2009. I hope that other crypto currencies can also get legalize in different part of the world so that we can use crypto currency without worrying to get jailed.- Alexander and Laura Strashny filed income tax return due in 2017, but unable to pay
- they sent IRS letters proposing to pay the liability in iinstallments over a period of 6 years
- IRS received the proposal recorded it and put in in pending status
- As of December 2018, the outstanding liability + interest exceeded $1 million
- IRS sent petition notice "Intent to Seize Your Assets" and Notice of Your Right to a Hearing.
- Petitioners timely requested a CDPhearing, expressinginterest in an installment agreement (IA) and attaching a copyof their previously submitted Forms 433-A and 9465. They did notcheck the boxindicating thattheycould not pay the balance, and they did notdispute theirunderlyingliability for 2017.
- SO review the case and saw that they have a huge cryptocurrency investment
- SO eceived from petitioners’ repre-sentative a copy of their 2018 tax return, which reported wages exceeding $200,000, and investment statements showing cryptocurrency assets valued over$7 million. During the conference the SO noted that petitioners were currently
- 4-[*4] withdrawing$19,000 per month from their cryptocurrency account, and she asked why they could not liquidate or borrow against those assets in order to discharge their tax liabilityin full.
- Lawyers for the petitioners argue that they are unable to draw on their cryptocurrency account to pay their liability.
- On June 25, 2019, the IRS issued a notice of determination sustaining the proposed levy, rejecting petitioners’ request for an IA, and stating that “[l]evyaction is permitted 30 daysafter the rejection.
https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/USTCInOP/OpinionViewer.aspx?ID=12258
There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?
Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?
Source: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/041515/countries-where-bitcoin-legal-illegal.asp
June 27, 2020, 03:10:26 PM
There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?
Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?
This is a hard decision to sell your Crypto just after the halving, I mean you could be losing a lot from potential profit coming from those coins you are hodling if they will grant you to settle it in months or years just a specific date in the future maybe two years it will be preferable, you are not only going to pay all your obligations but you can make a profit from the Crypto you are holding now.
June 27, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
What kind of lawyer do they have haha.
One who told them what they wanted to hear for the amount of money he wanted to hear.
Maybe he's retiring in a few weeks. That's the only possible explanation for the sheer outlandishness.
June 27, 2020, 12:55:34 PM
yes. and even if blockchain analysis isnt that good now, it will be.
i mentioned upthread i always pull 20% more on sells so its already in fiat for taxes. i dont touch that 20% fiat in the bank, only cash it in when the man wants his tax.
i mentioned upthread i always pull 20% more on sells so its already in fiat for taxes. i dont touch that 20% fiat in the bank, only cash it in when the man wants his tax.
Good call. I don't have to worry about this now but I wonder if at some point I will have to, I'm never certain of my next tax jurisdiction but I think anyone who trades, and who isn't 100% certain or has not got the all clear from the tax man should always have a bit of padding in that bank account.
Strange case because they went to court standing on no legs. What kind of lawyer do they have haha.
June 27, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?
Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?
This is a hard decision to sell your Crypto just after the halving, I mean you could be losing a lot from potential profit coming from those coins you are hodling if they will grant you to settle it in months or years just a specific date in the future maybe two years it will be preferable, you are not only going to pay all your obligations but you can make a profit from the Crypto you are holding now.
June 27, 2020, 12:46:15 PM
Your argument will not stand up in court if you take this to court... It is the same as saying... "Listen IRS, I will pay my debt when the stock price of my Microsoft shares reach X amount." The taxman takes whatever they get, when they want to...they do not wait for you to say when you are ready.
Will I sell my Crypto currencies to pay them?.... Yes I will, because I cannot do anything with that Crypto when my ass is in jail. Pay the taxes and be done with it and then enjoy what is left after the taxes was deducted.
Will I sell my Crypto currencies to pay them?.... Yes I will, because I cannot do anything with that Crypto when my ass is in jail. Pay the taxes and be done with it and then enjoy what is left after the taxes was deducted.
June 27, 2020, 12:25:46 PM
I would have payed the tax and settle the dues and closed the case considering I am liable for the above said amount . But surely why would they not be paying it when they have money and why would they want to make it the big news and now many things would be find out by IRS and also they be under suspicion as haveing money and not paying it this no government would ever want it . Unless some one has lost the money or something and does not have really to pay that becomes different story .
Most of us would.
I don't llike taxes and I oppose them as much as I can, but if I had a reported surplus of a few million dollars, I'd pay. There's no other way. It's like they already got a speeding ticket, signed it and a year later decided they don't want to pay it. Pretty dumb if you ask me.
June 27, 2020, 09:38:39 AM
They are milking people against gains that actually NEVER materialized.
But they did materialise. The trader made profit and that profit was available to realise. It's not the tax man's problem if he immediately threw it back in somewhere else. It's his responsibility to secure their share.
It's not crypto 'persecution', the same thing applies everywhere else too. If he were moving between currencies forex trading it may never be dollars but there still might be profits that are taxable in dollars.
The safest way is to follow what vapourminer said about keeping away some 20% realized profits for taxes. Sounds sensible enough. Anybody indulging in trading, even if they are financially unware students should do this.
June 27, 2020, 12:23:20 AM
In summary:
- Alexander and Laura Strashny filed income tax return due in 2017, but unable to pay
- they sent IRS letters proposing to pay the liability in iinstallments over a period of 6 years
- IRS received the proposal recorded it and put in in pending status
- As of December 2018, the outstanding liability + interest exceeded $1 million
- IRS sent petition notice "Intent to Seize Your Assets" and Notice of Your Right to a Hearing.
- Petitioners timely requested a CDPhearing, expressinginterest in an installment agreement (IA) and attaching a copyof their previously submitted Forms 433-A and 9465. They did notcheck the boxindicating thattheycould not pay the balance, and they did notdispute theirunderlyingliability for 2017.
- SO review the case and saw that they have a huge cryptocurrency investment
- SO eceived from petitioners’ repre-sentative a copy of their 2018 tax return, which reported wages exceeding $200,000, and investment statements showing cryptocurrency assets valued over$7 million. During the conference the SO noted that petitioners were currently
- 4-[*4] withdrawing$19,000 per month from their cryptocurrency account, and she asked why they could not liquidate or borrow against those assets in order to discharge their tax liabilityin full.
- Lawyers for the petitioners argue that they are unable to draw on their cryptocurrency account to pay their liability.
- On June 25, 2019, the IRS issued a notice of determination sustaining the proposed levy, rejecting petitioners’ request for an IA, and stating that “[l]evyaction is permitted 30 daysafter the rejection.
https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/USTCInOP/OpinionViewer.aspx?ID=12258
There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?
Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?
Interestingly USA has been pretty developed with cryptocurrency too now. They have defined cryptocurrency as financial asset therefore it's their right to seize them for recovery of their taxes. Moreover even if it wasn't a financial asset they can seize any asset they want.- Alexander and Laura Strashny filed income tax return due in 2017, but unable to pay
- they sent IRS letters proposing to pay the liability in iinstallments over a period of 6 years
- IRS received the proposal recorded it and put in in pending status
- As of December 2018, the outstanding liability + interest exceeded $1 million
- IRS sent petition notice "Intent to Seize Your Assets" and Notice of Your Right to a Hearing.
- Petitioners timely requested a CDPhearing, expressinginterest in an installment agreement (IA) and attaching a copyof their previously submitted Forms 433-A and 9465. They did notcheck the boxindicating thattheycould not pay the balance, and they did notdispute theirunderlyingliability for 2017.
- SO review the case and saw that they have a huge cryptocurrency investment
- SO eceived from petitioners’ repre-sentative a copy of their 2018 tax return, which reported wages exceeding $200,000, and investment statements showing cryptocurrency assets valued over$7 million. During the conference the SO noted that petitioners were currently
- 4-[*4] withdrawing$19,000 per month from their cryptocurrency account, and she asked why they could not liquidate or borrow against those assets in order to discharge their tax liabilityin full.
- Lawyers for the petitioners argue that they are unable to draw on their cryptocurrency account to pay their liability.
- On June 25, 2019, the IRS issued a notice of determination sustaining the proposed levy, rejecting petitioners’ request for an IA, and stating that “[l]evyaction is permitted 30 daysafter the rejection.
https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/USTCInOP/OpinionViewer.aspx?ID=12258
There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?
Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?
There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?
Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?
Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?
It seems pretty clear to me that this has little to do with cryptocurrency. They simply are doing whatever they can to avoid paying $1 million dollars to the government. Wouldn't you? They won't win, but at least they tried.
June 26, 2020, 11:59:46 PM
From what I read it's pretty clear to me that those people simply don't want to pay their taxes.
The IRS tells them "hey,you have cryptocurrencies worth millions of dollars,sell your crypto and pay your taxes without intallments!",but those people are just "nah,we can't sell our crypto,we wanna pay in a 6-year time frame".This is just plain stupid to me.I assume that the IRS will try to confiscate a large portion of their crytpocurrency investments.
Trying to hide your wealth from taxes by investing in cryptocurrencies isn't that easy.
The IRS tells them "hey,you have cryptocurrencies worth millions of dollars,sell your crypto and pay your taxes without intallments!",but those people are just "nah,we can't sell our crypto,we wanna pay in a 6-year time frame".This is just plain stupid to me.I assume that the IRS will try to confiscate a large portion of their crytpocurrency investments.
Trying to hide your wealth from taxes by investing in cryptocurrencies isn't that easy.
Plain and straight, if they do really concerned about paying their taxes no one can stop them selling their assets/crypto
but this couple are really trying to convinced IRS
to have 6-year time frame hoping that the value of their crypto is really high, from that it will favor them in paying the
debt as it can possibly the earnings from the assets that they've got.
IRS though can easily track their resources and since that it was their debt the couple needs to comply and use their
crypto assets and pay the said amount.
June 26, 2020, 11:33:31 PM
I would have payed the tax and settle the dues and closed the case considering I am liable for the above said amount . But surely why would they not be paying it when they have money and why would they want to make it the big news and now many things would be find out by IRS and also they be under suspicion as haveing money and not paying it this no government would ever want it . Unless some one has lost the money or something and does not have really to pay that becomes different story .
June 26, 2020, 10:32:54 PM
From what I read it's pretty clear to me that those people simply don't want to pay their taxes.
The IRS tells them "hey,you have cryptocurrencies worth millions of dollars,sell your crypto and pay your taxes without intallments!",but those people are just "nah,we can't sell our crypto,we wanna pay in a 6-year time frame".This is just plain stupid to me.I assume that the IRS will try to confiscate a large portion of their crytpocurrency investments.
Trying to hide your wealth from taxes by investing in cryptocurrencies isn't that easy.
The problem that they are facing could have been avoidable if they paid their taxes properly in the first place, the problem with IRS and other agencies that are handling taxes is that they can drain someone of their entire funds just by dragging the process for too long, that is how bureaucracy works, the paperworks are going to kill you when in the end you could have paid it. Authority is very hard on people avoiding taxes. Now they have to spend their crypto investments to pay for their mistakes which is kind of a bummer. The IRS tells them "hey,you have cryptocurrencies worth millions of dollars,sell your crypto and pay your taxes without intallments!",but those people are just "nah,we can't sell our crypto,we wanna pay in a 6-year time frame".This is just plain stupid to me.I assume that the IRS will try to confiscate a large portion of their crytpocurrency investments.
Trying to hide your wealth from taxes by investing in cryptocurrencies isn't that easy.
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