Create a self-pension found with BTC. - page 4.

pawanjain

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Quote from: Jewan420 on September 12, 2024, 04:38:18 AM

We can make a decision as a plan to guide our life. The biggest concern of most job seekers is what to do after they retire. This question comes to the mind of most of the employees very late, almost before retirement. I think leisure time should be planned from the start of employment. Planning at the beginning gives you longer time to make the plan a success.

As part of the plan we can build a self-pension fund. Which will be governed by DCA system and will have a long tenure till retirement (about 25-30 years). An employee has 25-30 years of service. Then he retires, in many cases it is less or more than 25-30. If we build a self-pension fund early in our working life, we can extend it to about 30 years. This fund we can manage through monthly savings where a certain amount of income will be saved regularly. It may be 10% of income or more. If a person's income is $1000 then 10% of $1000 is $100, so in 30 years his savings will be $100×12×30=$36,000. Assuming 2x the profit in 30 years we get a return of at least $72,000 which I think would be enough for a retired person to live on.

Of course this is part of the long term plan and the holding period is 30 years which is too much. But if we use it as a retirement plan, it won't seem like much time.

Isn't a pension fund a scheme which gives us pension after we retire ?
In this case, consider that we have accumulated a decent amount until our retirement but after that how are you planning to get a pension out of it ?
You should have mentioned that as well. It is achievable by withdrawing the amount at regular intervals.
We can also withdraw a significant portion of the corpus and then invest it into a SWP(Systematic Withdrawal Plan) which will give us an illusion of getting a pension.
If we manage our SWP well then we will be able to save the capital while still getting the pension.
So yeah, the option is good considering the fact that we are DCAing bitcoin for a long term.

avikz

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Quote from: Jewan420 on September 12, 2024, 04:38:18 AM

We can make a decision as a plan to guide our life. The biggest concern of most job seekers is what to do after they retire. This question comes to the mind of most of the employees very late, almost before retirement. I think leisure time should be planned from the start of employment. Planning at the beginning gives you longer time to make the plan a success.

As part of the plan we can build a self-pension fund. Which will be governed by DCA system and will have a long tenure till retirement (about 25-30 years). An employee has 25-30 years of service. Then he retires, in many cases it is less or more than 25-30. If we build a self-pension fund early in our working life, we can extend it to about 30 years. This fund we can manage through monthly savings where a certain amount of income will be saved regularly. It may be 10% of income or more. If a person's income is $1000 then 10% of $1000 is $100, so in 30 years his savings will be $100×12×30=$36,000. Assuming 2x the profit in 30 years we get a return of at least $72,000 which I think would be enough for a retired person to live on.

Of course this is part of the long term plan and the holding period is 30 years which is too much. But if we use it as a retirement plan, it won't seem like much time.

Bitcoin pension fund is definitely a good idea if the person investing, can stay invested for longer period of time. People need to understand that Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quick scheme. It needs patience to make big money from anything and Bitcoin no exception.

But I wouldn't suggest to keep all savings into one single asset. Bitcoin is good but at the same time, we also need to consider real world stock and precious metal investing. That way, the portfolio will get support if anything bad happens to Bitcoin.

retreat

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Quote from: Japinat on September 12, 2024, 06:45:08 AM

That’s a solid point but putting everything into Bitcoin is risky because of the volatility. Even though Bitcoin has seen great success, relying solely on it feels like gambling. It’s smart to diversify and have more stable investments if you're thinking long-term, especially for retirement.

-snip-

Investing in Bitcoin in the long term, for example 25-30 years, makes Bitcoin volatility lower. You can see how Bitcoin's history and try to compare from year to year Bitcoin's volatility is getting lower and it is estimated that in the future it will be lower and more stable. So making a plan like this is not a bad thing, because besides being able to put their money in assets that have the potential to increase more, they are more flexible in managing how much money they need to set aside for their retirement.

stompix

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Quote from: Jewan420 on September 12, 2024, 04:38:18 AM

This fund we can manage through monthly savings where a certain amount of income will be saved regularly. It may be 10% of income or more. If a person's income is $1000 then 10% of $1000 is $100, so in 30 years his savings will be $100×12×30=$36,000. Assuming 2x the profit in 30 years we get a return of at least $72,000 which I think would be enough for a retired person to live on.

Stocks return pre inflation are 7%, this roughly means doubling every 10 year.
Basic math with interest rates puts this at over $110,000a bit more since I rounded it annually.
Also for a guy who before retiring, so this means entry-level, he has a wage of $1000, at 2% inflation, this means around $1700, so your savings would be worth around 4 years of entry-level paychecks, hardly anywhere in the ballpark of living comfortably as a retiree.
Putting it in perspective, you've started working at 20 for $1000 a month and you saved enough for $200 a month for your old age 30 years later!

Unless you're aiming for something x200 your wage in savings at the start of your retirement you will never get close to a life without worries.

Quote from: Solosanz on September 12, 2024, 08:12:08 AM

For me, Bitcoin double it's price every 4 years, so if you invest for 30 years, it should be 2⁷ which is 128x, $36K x 128 = $4.6 Million.

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MeGold666

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Quote from: Solosanz on September 12, 2024, 10:17:06 AM

Quote

You realize how unrealistic this is ?

IMO it's realistic.

In 2018 and 2021, Bitcoin making 5x-10x from the last year and the last super cycle Bitcoin made 3x. So, expecting 2x return is realistic.

2x is realistic, I meant it's not realistic to expect it every 4 years for the next 30 years. Wink

Solosanz

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Quote from: MeGold666 on September 12, 2024, 08:50:13 AM

Which bank ? never heard of such good deal from banksters, they either have lower than inflation percentage or a bit higher but with risk (mostly you lose).

My bad, I should say time deposit instead of savings account. Time deposit gives you 4%-7% APY, if we calculate for 30 years, you only need to find time deposit that gives 5% APY in order to double your money. Of course inflation rate is the problem, but it seems @OP didn't care with that.

Quote

You realize how unrealistic this is ?

IMO it's realistic.

In 2018 and 2021, Bitcoin making 5x-10x from the last year and the last super cycle Bitcoin made 3x. So, expecting 2x return is realistic.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on September 12, 2024, 07:18:02 AM

If I have to do this my way, I will save up the $100 depending on the market condition, since this is monthly DCA I will wait for a massive dump in BTC price before buying, and I will end up with more satoshis than buying at $50k or $30, etc,

Well Your statement in the first paragraph was decent but the second paragraph I don't think it's a nice one. What if you keep waiting for btc to dump before you buy and yet it keep increasing, does it mean you will wait forever? Although Bitcoin is volatile meaning we can take advantage of the dip in price to buy more, but we shouldn't forget the fact that as it dips so does it rises. we can't neglect the rise and only think of the dip. This reason is has made Most people have lose interest in BTC investment or where unable to invest in due to disappointed because when you expect btc to dip to your satisfaction before buying them it keep appreciating and you feel it to expensive to buy. The slogan says yesterday was the bet time to buy and today is another best best time to buy. So you should think of combining the strategy by not focusing only on buying dip, you can answell implement the DCA and the lump sum to make it a complete investment strategy.

Quote from: Crypt0Gore on September 12, 2024, 07:18:02 AM

someone who saved $100 in every 12 months will have $1200 and imagine this person use this money to buy BTC at $17,000? They will have more BTC than someone who is buying from $57,000.

You should think of a more realistic figure because btc has surpassed the $17k WMA. Like I said if you only think of BTC price to dip to the old price of bitcoin before you invest, you may find it difficult to inves or feel left out.

Lucius

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Quote from: Jewan420 on September 12, 2024, 04:38:18 AM

~snip~
An employee has 25-30 years of service. Then he retires, in many cases it is less or more than 25-30. If we build a self-pension fund early in our working life, we can extend it to about 30 years.

In some professions there is a possibility that for 1 year of work they get 1.5 years in terms of the time needed to retire - but in ordinary professions people need 40+ years to retire. Maybe the rules are different somewhere, but in Europe people can usually retire at the age of 65, although there are plans to raise that limit to 67.

Quote from: Jewan420 on September 12, 2024, 04:38:18 AM

Of course this is part of the long term plan and the holding period is 30 years which is too much. But if we use it as a retirement plan, it won't seem like much time.

People "save" for retirement because the system forces them to do so, and I think there are few who would be persistent for 30+ years to maintain such financial discipline. Of course, something like that is not impossible, but you should always keep in mind that we don't know what the future will bring, so it is always wise to invest only what we are ready to lose.

MeGold666

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It wouldn't be a bad plan but people are already forcefully paying for their retirement plan out of their income.
I doubt many people would be into lowering their income by any percentage on a volatile asset that may not even exist in 30 years.

First people would need to protest the government to not be forced into paying their retirement plan and be free to invest in their future as they want.
People are spenders anyway, they will spend all of it and then cry to the government for help.

Quote from: Solosanz on September 12, 2024, 08:12:08 AM

Man, investing in Bitcoin and only hope 2x profit in 30 years is really not worth it... you can just put your money in banks if you only want to double your money for 30 years.

Which bank ? never heard of such good deal from banksters, they either have lower than inflation percentage or a bit higher but with risk (mostly you lose).

Quote from: Solosanz on September 12, 2024, 08:12:08 AM

For me, Bitcoin double it's price every 4 years, so if you invest for 30 years, it should be 2⁷ which is 128x, $36K x 128 = $4.6 Million.

You realize how unrealistic this is ?

Poker Player

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The idea is not bad, although not well expressed, and I would not call it a pension fund.

Pension funds usually prohibit withdrawing what you contribute or only allow you to do so, and penalize you heavily if you do so before the established retirement age. In addition, they usually provide tax advantages.

As neither of these two things are met, nor any other that makes it look like a pension fund I would simply call it a wealth building plan using bitcoin, which is what many of us do on the forum. Plus you're not going to have to wait until retirement to spend. You can spend at times but generally keep accumulating.

Solosanz

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Quote from: Jewan420 on September 12, 2024, 04:38:18 AM

If a person's income is $1000 then 10% of $1000 is $100, so in 30 years his savings will be $100×12×30=$36,000. Assuming 2x the profit in 30 years we get a return of at least $72,000 which I think would be enough for a retired person to live on.

Man, investing in Bitcoin and only hope 2x profit in 30 years is really not worth it... you can just put your money in banks if you only want to double your money for 30 years.

For me, Bitcoin double it's price every 4 years, so if you invest for 30 years, it should be 2⁷ which is 128x, $36K x 128 = $4.6 Million.

If your target is $72,000 and you want to retire, I'm sure if you've achieve it, you will not retire. Wink

Human is greedy and money has no limit, that's why people nowadays are working very hard to earn more and more.

Crypt0Gore

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I am lost, are you saying that the $100 fund every monthly will be used to buy BTC and this will go on for 30 years? It is not a bad idea if this is what you are trying to say, and mind you the end result will never be $36,000 because Bitcoin will keep appreciating in value, in the next 30 years this person will be very rich if truly the $100 is going into BTC.

If I have to do this my way, I will save up the $100 depending on the market condition, since this is monthly DCA I will wait for a massive dump in BTC price before buying, and I will end up with more satoshis than buying at $50k or $30, etc, someone who saved $100 in every 12 months will have $1200 and imagine this person use this money to buy BTC at $17,000? They will have more BTC than someone who is buying from $57,000.

This is just my way, buying right now isn't bad either since the goal is long term, not a bad plan after all, either ways your retirement will be great, but we are humans, don't forget this, we want to see tomorrow but we are not promised tomorrow.

May we live long to enjoy the fruit of our labor.

kryptqnick

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I agree that it's often good to make long-term plans when it's possible. But sometimes it's just not feasible or people are not organised enough, which is why I believe that things like pensions should be largely handled by the state and employer, not by employees. That being said, accumulating BTC for long-term holding isn't a bad idea, regardless of state policies on pensions. It can be a safety net, a college fund for kids, or perhaps become a retirement fund indeed.
2x return with BTC over 30 years is very modest, I think we should expect much more. But also, I honestly don't think $72k is enough to retire, unless you're planning to still work part-time or have some sort of passive income at that point. Even assuming extremely modestly that you have a place to live and only spend $500 per month, that's just money for 12 years. Sure, maybe you'll live less or die after 12 years, but you can also easily live 20, 30 years. Also, $500 per month is not enough even for basic needs in many parts of the world.

Japinat

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That’s a solid point but putting everything into Bitcoin is risky because of the volatility. Even though Bitcoin has seen great success, relying solely on it feels like gambling. It’s smart to diversify and have more stable investments if you're thinking long-term, especially for retirement.

I’m not against Bitcoin, but it’s practical to balance it out with low-risk investments or even starting a small side business. That way, if you grow that business, you might retire earlier than planned without worrying too much about Bitcoin’s price swings.

ethereumhunter

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If they see the benefit of Bitcoin and want to take part, they will do that and will save some amount like your illustration to their self pension fund. That need an effort to keep saving some amount from their salary in Bitcoin and hold it until they pension so they will have the profit when the time is come. They can get more money besides of their pension because they have an investment in Bitcoin that can give them the profit. Before they do that, they must know how much money they still have so they can know how much money they can use for Bitcoin investment. Without doing that, they will get difficulty to running their DCA system because they can not allocate some money for their Bitcoin investment.

Jewan420

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Patience and hard work are the keys to success.

We can make a decision as a plan to guide our life. The biggest concern of most job seekers is what to do after they retire. This question comes to the mind of most of the employees very late, almost before retirement. I think leisure time should be planned from the start of employment. Planning at the beginning gives you longer time to make the plan a success.

As part of the plan we can build a self-pension fund. Which will be governed by DCA system and will have a long tenure till retirement (about 25-30 years). An employee has 25-30 years of service. Then he retires, in many cases it is less or more than 25-30. If we build a self-pension fund early in our working life, we can extend it to about 30 years. This fund we can manage through monthly savings where a certain amount of income will be saved regularly. It may be 10% of income or more. If a person's income is $1000 then 10% of $1000 is $100, so in 30 years his savings will be $100×12×30=$36,000. Assuming 2x the profit in 30 years we get a return of at least $72,000 which I think would be enough for a retired person to live on.

Of course this is part of the long term plan and the holding period is 30 years which is too much. But if we use it as a retirement plan, it won't seem like much time.

Topic: Create a self-pension found with BTC. - page 4. (Read 748 times)