Topic: Critical problems with Trestor - Read before use - page 3. (Read 13957 times)

We will be happy to answer any other questions.

Thanks guys,

Trestor Team
www.trestor.org
@trestorconnect

Dear Skang,

Thank you for elaborating on the question, it is much more clear now.

Thus a consensus is not enough; proof-of-work is also required. Why? What are these issues? And how does proof-of-work solve these issues?

Your principal argument is deeply flawed, consensus is enough, that is all one needs, consensus is the end goal and proof-of-work is the tool used by bitcoin protocol to make its network come to a consensus.

There are over 300 altcoins with many variations, there is only one thing common, in fact central to every coin without exception and that is 'Consensus'.

Proof-of-work, proof-of-stake, proof-of- are tools utilized to help the network come to a consensus.

The most fundamental difference between Trestor network (T-Net) and bitcoin/alts is that we have Insulated the 'current state of the network' from 'history of the network'

Therefore T-Net transactions are always 100% confirmed whereas in bitcoin no transaction ever gets completely confirmed, every transaction is theoretically open to an overwrite. This does not in any way mean that bitcoin is unsafe, it just means that bitcoin network cannot guarantee probabilistic certainty.

Trestor Team
www.trestor.org
@trestorconnect

Yes sir, and you did not need to assume since you are the previous poster in this thread above.


Cool that you recognize that the value of bitcoin is what individuals wish to trade it for.


Let's say few of us friends decide to create a playmoney system, where everyone gets equal amount of some starting money to pay others with. Whenever someone owes someone else money, they simply mail this information to everyone, saying that "I pay so&so this much money". This mail-chain is a ledger, that everyone of our friends have and thus everyone knows who paid whom what; basically a consensus. Transactions declared that conflict with previous transactions are not accepted. No one can double spend etc because there is a consensus reached by mail-chain.

This is system is the first part of bitcoin system, like the hashcash system that existed before bitcoin. A simplified version of this system is very commonly used in daily life among friends living together in hostels, where they don't actually pay money but just keep an oral record of who owes whom what and then pay up when money arrives.

But there are some problems in this system, because it won't work for large groups even if everyone has good memory(lets say they write it down in their diaries), and also other issues because of which hashcash like systems don't work.

Thus a consensus is not enough; proof-of-work is also required. Why? What are these issues? And how does proof-of-work solve these issues?

***

The reason why I asked these two questions is that I just wanted you to understand with respect to trests is that :
- Value of a trest is not decided by trading individuals
- T-net eliminates proof-of-work mining by a consensus system of validators. But simply a consensus is not enough, your understanding of which would be demonstrated by your answer to the above.

Dear Skang,

We assume you are asking these question from Trestor. We will try our level best to reply.

What gives bitcoin value? How is the price of 1 bitcoin determined? Why?

Bitcoin is an intentionally designed,  decentralized, peer to peer virtual currency. For the first time in human history, we have created a global currency which is neither backed by the market (commodity money) or the state (fiat money).

Bitcoin has properties resulting from the system's design that allows them to be subjectively valued by individuals. This valuation is demonstrated when individuals freely exchange Bitcoins over various global exchanges. This voluntary exchange between buyers and sellers determines the real time value of Bitcoin at that particular instant.

2. Since we already have consensus in the form of blockchain, what is the use of "proof-of-work" in bitcoin?

Not sure if we understand the above question, could you please elaborate?

Trestor Team
www.trestor.org
@trestorconnect

Since this thread was marked unresolved, let us try and resolve it.

Before I point out flaws in the algorithm and why the implementation is scammy, I request you to answer the following 2 questions:
1. What gives bitcoin value? How is the price of 1 bitcoin determined? Why?
2. Since we already have consensus in the form of blockchain, what is the use of "proof-of-work" in bitcoin?

SCAM CONFIRMED (or stupidity maybe? But since they took people's money I'll call it scam.)

Please read their algorithm for yourself : http://pastebin.com/bCs37CLb

Hello Skang and other India community members,

NDA would not be required, here's a link to our Technical Draft.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/182td7t8jMVKEr3K6yVwXvmeZjuC2o0vlaQ91iz0jJIA/edit?usp=sharing

Apologies for not keeping in touch, we would greatly appreciate any feedback/suggestions, feel free to comment in as your read.  

Details of our Physical offices:

Toronto, Canada:   Suite 608, 120 Eglinton Avenue East, Toronto, M4P1E2. Phone: +1-416-605-1295

Chandigarh, India:  Plot # J-7, Rajiv Gandhi IT Park, Chandigarh, India Phone: +91-0172-6579292, +91-76965-71000

Seoul, Korea: 197-33, Guro 3-Dong, Guro-Gu, Seoul Phone: +82-10-9910-2173


Regards,

Trestor Team
www.trestor.org
@trestorconnect
www.facebook.com/trestor.org

Thanks a lot Benson!

Kunal,
1. Please share the 'tech-draft' for a review, I'll sign an NDA if you need, although it violates one of your '4 principles'.
2. Please share your Indian registrations.

Kunal's intro on the Trestor website:
"Kunal is an astute student of money and human cognitive biases, he builds his models by leveraging the fact that human beings are visibly irrational, especially in a group/tribe format."

From the FAQ on the site :

Benson Samuel
5:45 PM (20 hours ago)

to me
Telling me this is not going to help.
You need to address the forums and explain why we are incorrect.


Kunal Dixit <[email protected]>
5:56 PM (20 hours ago)

to Benson
Yes. You are right. Will do that over the weekend. I really appreciate your effort in shaping and leading a healthy cryptocurrency community in India.

You should post the rest of that mail trail as well..

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/critical-problems-with-trestor-read-before-use-1057794

Kunal,

Either you guys are marketing your product in a very wrong way, without getting consensus of the people who understand this technology, or you are running a scam.

Do clarify on the Thread.

Best wishes,
Benson

Kunal Dixit <[email protected]>
4:46 PM (21 hours ago)


Hi Benson,

Thank you for bringing this to my notice. We are obviously not a scam because to be called a valid scam you need at-least one victim who got scammed by the potential scammer.

I encourage Indian bitcoin community to call our Retail Partners, this would help Trestor because this community driven quality assurance would help us identify Retail Partner who lack appropriate knowledge to answer a Trestor related query then maybe we need to drop their name from our website. 

As a confidence building measure, I will share our non-public 'Tech-Draft' along with other critical research content with you in a separate mail.

Trestor is proudly Indian, I assure you that Trestor team is fully committed to financial inclusion and decentralization.


Kunal Dixit
Founder
Trestor Foundation
www.trestor.org

It' sad to see that people try this hard to make their scams and ponzi schemes look realistic enough so that people may become their victim instead of just putting an equal effort into creating something that might actually be beneficial for the bitcoin community and play a vital role in developing and enriching the cryptocurrency world through their efforts...

I was excited to see a crypto company coming up in India at first, but kinda went sour as I saw their marketing/ product.
It does bug me when I can see that another crypto-scam-news is around the corner from India.

If you have any suggestions on how, as a community, we can address this, I'll be glad to chip in.

Sorry, I got you wrong then. I thought you doubted there. We are on the same page here.

But they got there, if those were the words you were looking for.

Brilliant for who? As far as I can see they are doing lie filled marketing and trying to sell a scam. That would be quite rotten.

They do not access the forums, so what do you want me to do here? Who said that they were not scammers?

Lol

I want to know why there doing this? It is one of the easiest things to investigate and turn them over. Yet they continue to show this.

They have been scammers all along and their marketing has been brilliant! What are you talking about Benson?
What substance do you want? Would you only believe they are scammers if and when they do run away with the fiat?
They specifically stopped answering once people called out their bluff. They knew they couldn't argue with people who understood the protocol so took their business offline. They have a meeting this wednesday in chandigarh; send someone and verify if you please.

I ask you 2 simple questions:
1. What gives bitcoin value? Now, what gives trestor value?
2. Trestor is using consensus instead of proof-of-work. We already have consensus ledger in the form of blockchain, then why do we need proof-of-work in bitcoin?

Only a person who doesn't understand the bitcoin protocol would doubt them of not being scammers.

They were last online in April when some of the posts question their merchants were posted. Since they didn't care replying, I would still doubt they are not a scam, or not running it in a fishy manner.

They also have a team listed, which I highly doubt is real. Their currency actually promises nothing new, and it seems they are just relying on the fact that not a lot of people are aware of bitcoin, to market their own digital currency.

I would love to see a trestor reply in this thread. I do not believe that they started with the intention, to 'scam'.
The marketing that they have pursued is rotten and that needs to be addressed.

This thread seems scattered with intentions and opinions rather than something real and substantial.

I am aware of the phone calls to merchants who have denied their involvement with Trestor, but would be awesome if they could come over here and clarify once and for all.

that's actually tragic, given that zebpay and other bitcoin related Indian companies are a lot better than Trestor... and they really are taking part in strengthening the bitcoin community by their works... unlike Trestor which even though being a scam gets all the limelight... 

What is unfortunate is that when finally people lose money, I am sure the media will report it as a scam involving "Trestor - a cryptocurrency like Bitcoin".