Topic: Cross post: Petition to form an indepentent Objectivist State - page 3. (Read 6293 times)

I am experimenting with this concept:  Lets have a tip jar for this thread.  I think that everyone contributing to this thread should make some money, because they spend time writing about an important topic.

Here's the tip jar:

https://propster.me/tipjar/0C7M1NB

Once the balance reaches something significant it will be distributed among all the participants.  I will go over the comments in the thread, and count everyone participated, discounting posts that are not substantial.  Also, if someone reads this thread much later, he will still have a chance to contribute to the thread tip jar.

That's exactly what got my attention too.
Putin is a petty thug essentially, a bully who talks much more that he actually is able do. Besides, the Russian government is so corrupt that it hardly can conquer anyone. Rumor has it (NATO sources spoke off the record to some journalists) that the real reason why Russian tanks did not reach Tbilisi (Georgian capital) in 2008 is that they were literally falling apart because officials who run the army (not unlike most of their colleagues in Russia) steal everything - fuel, spare parts etc. (or just the funds allotted to all this), also soldiers were underfed (according to resident of occupied regions who have had to feed them) for the same corrupt reasons etc. and were in pretty bad shape.
And using nuclear WMDs is not an option as Putin's cronies do not wish to become outcasts in the West which is made clear for example by all those numerous attempts by Russian delegations in the US and EU to try to prevent passing of Justice for Magnitsky Bill and similar bills in Europe. (more details here: http://russian-untouchables.com/eng/ )
They want to be able to pillage Russia with impunity (even killing people in the process if they are in their way, like aforementioned Mr. Magnitsky) and at the same time be able to spend their hard "earned" cash in the West, bring their families there, educate their children etc.

So I'm pretty sure that Georgian president's balls are safe (at least from Putin)

You are correct - it was in the 90s I was refused entry.  The USSR had fallen apart and I was trying to explore the place during a trip to the Black Sea. 

Interesting site.  I had no idea that they were trying something so interesting.  Its not a fair trial of libertarianism as the Abhaz and Sth Ossetian areas are occupied and Putin is on record as saying he is "going to hang Saakashvili by the balls."  But its interesting to see how it goes.

Turns out there is a dedicated website website/publication on this matter:
http://www.georgianreforms.com/
"2004-2010 Seven Years That Changed Georgia Forever"

He is just one of the most visible people. My understanding is that the whole "governing team" is like-minded more or less (and I've been following information from this country for a while on and off)
Can you be more specific? What projects are those? Current Georgian government (since 2003, part of which Bendukidze was) is in fact very pro-western (the president is US-educated) and that's the reason Putin is so angry with them for leaving his "zone of special interests". Russians do not own much in Georgia. (if you do not count occupied regions)
Russian army in Georgia at the Turkish border??? What year was that? Some time in the nineties I guess? It is a completely different country now. Now Russian army can only be found in the northern regions it occupied. Soviet KGB and police were disbanded (and some prosecuted, and some ran away to Russia). They created a new law enforcement force almost from scratch which as I remember was evaluated a couple of years back as much more trusted (by the citizens, the number was 80%+) than in EU countries like France.

EDIT: http://pik.tv/en/news/story/36638-georgia-celebrates-national-police-day

http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=322&debate_ID=3&slide_ID=20

It looks positive to me. 

The issue of "reform" that is incompatible with the EU is down to this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakha_Bendukidze

He "privatised" by selling to Russians and you'll find that there were French, German and Italians bidding for the same projects but were excluded.  I tried to enter Georgia at a Turkish crossing and was refused because the Russian Army was running the post and didn't want Western Europeans going there - its hard to explain just how messed up the borders and politics is in that part of the world.

At the first glance it does not look so "alternative".
This:
Looks almost like an attempt of blackmail/intimidation from EU socialistic establishment

Generally, libertarians and the likes are a minority around the world, and [all kinds of] socialists are likely a majority now. So it is no surprise that there are so many "alternative" perspectives praising the same "values". (and so much pressure) Do not forget that all this "socialism" breeds all kinds of vested interests, the EU bureaucracy practically spawned new kind of people with new kind of careers (and new kind of agenda - to regulate and redistribute more an more etc. to have more justifications for their own existence, to have more lobbying powers etc.). Of course I generalize and simplify. But anyway...
Ayn Rand warned about this half a century ago, naming [mostly US] educational institutions as the main culprit for presenting Kantian philosophy/morality as the "proper" one, shaping people's minds with it.

Even terminology changed its meaning. Liberals of the 19th century were more like what we call "libertarians" today, and "liberal" today almost means "socialist" (more so in the US). "Democracy" in Europe really means "social democracy". (and non-social democracy they seem to call radical-whatever LOL)

If you think that I exaggerate or I am paranoid, try googling on lobbyism by members of European parliament (and their undeclared income in the region of hundreds of thousands from it) or improper handling of expenditure, procurement etc. (those numbers were above 90% a year or two ago as far as I remember, and of course no one could find anyone responsible )

Do you know that for a few years already European Union has a number of socialist principles promulgated into law? - "Charter of Fundamental Rights" (Look here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/treaties/dat/32007X1214/htm/C2007303EN.01000101.htm or here: http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/areas/industrialrelations/dictionary/definitions/charteroffundamentalrightsoftheeuropeanunion.htm, among those "rights" are now a number of things that somebody else has to pay for.

I'm all for human rights and freedoms but having somebody else pay for your "rights" kind of contradicts and discredits the whole idea as rights of the person who pays become violated as they are deprived of the freedom of choice under this EU "fundamental rights" charter.
No one should have a "right" to steal other people's property (therefore violating their rights) via forced taxation or otherwise.
Human rights end where they trespass on the rights of another human being. The EU crossed that line a long time ago and by a lot.

It probably would be if Cato Institute would ever defend Obama's policies as vehemently as the author of that paper defends EU's socialistic "values". But somehow I doubt that they ever could do anything even remotely close to it.
I doubt that the author or FES needed any help from Russians or whomever with lamenting on Georgian "anti-EU" policies. The header of their website says "Der Sozialen Demokratie Verpflichtet" (which Google translates as "The Social Democracy Committed") which say it all. His outrage towards Georgian violation of what he believes are "inalienable human rights" (like the "right" to organize with the purpose of extorting something from employers or the "right" to force other people into keeping you employed) is understandable given his affiliation.
Thanks. It is an interesting link.

Its akin to saying that Cato Institute is in the US, Obama is the President so the Cato Institute could be seen as representative of Obama's policies rather than of the Koch brothers that fund it.  Given the tone of the FES paper, I would not be surprised to find it was a Russian funded it.

EDIT: Its interesting to see an alternative perspective: http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=322&debate_ID=3  Note this is also another European think tank but its nothing to do with the EU.

How so? It's located in EU and the article is about EU policies... If you read the article a bit you'll realize that it strongly criticizes Georgia's "radical libertarian" policies for conflicting with EU policies. (which are more "proper" according to the author, with more regulation etc.)

Friedrich-Ebert-Stiftung is a think tank - nothing to do with the EU. 

What EU "commies" think about Georgian government (LOL):
http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/id/08135.pdf
(article's subtitle: A Challenge for EU Convergence and Trade Unions)

I do not know about you but to me commies unhappy about a government policy means that that government does something good.

Why do they even keep insisting that EU is still somehow "free" territory? IMO it has long been ruled by socialist principles (or so called social-democratic at best). Enormous taxes, lots of regulation of almost everything, insane extortionist trade unions, state monopolies in some countries etc...

That looks more like the opposite of what the topic starter is looking for. Regions managed by "innovative" socialist-ish governments like Canadian?
Although, perhaps they would be open to creating regions with different rules.

Honduras is creating "free" zones that will be within its sovereignty but not taxed or administered by it.  They have literally decided that the only way to get administration without corruption and human rights violations is that their own state exclude itself.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/urban-prosperity-in-the-red/article2412947/

Would one of them be the place to try your idea?

Forget the USA, the US government behemoth will never go along with this. As well as most countries. The problem is that the majority of people around the world got used to the idea that taxation is some kind of inalienable right of the state (and that the state may increase or invent whatever taxes they want whenever they just need/want more money). Come to think of it, just around a 100 years ago the US Constitution explicitly prohibited income taxation...

If you want to get anywhere with this idea, you need to consider implementing it elsewhere. I'd suggest looking into Georgia (NOT the US state). Since 2004 their government seems to consist of mostly libertarian/libertarian-ish politicians. Read about this guy for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakha_Bendukidze
Some useful information is available here: http://www.investingeorgia.org/?40/10_reasons_to_invest_in_georgia/
They still have some taxes though: http://www.investingeorgia.org/?84/tax_system/ (note "tax free regimes" at the bottom however)
Wall Street Jornal exemplified this country as a reformer (towards free market, deregulation etc.) and suggested that EU countries should learn from them: http://www.adamsmith.org/news/in-the-news/georgian-times-wsj-exmplifies-georgia-as-reformer-in-economic-sector

They also apparently have a lot of undeveloped land (and the population is just around 4.5 million) to the point that they call for investors to build a whole new city: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/world/europe/in-georgia-plans-for-an-instant-city.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
Besides, they actually tried to implement something similar to your idea on their own! (although without tax-free component) See http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/02/georgia
Of course, you would need numbers to approach them with this idea but they certainly are flexible.
Even Donald Trump has interests there already (that should be a positive indication): http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/story/2012-04-22/trump-georgia-apartments/54472442/1

Converse fallacy of accident, fallacy of false cause.

The truth ist rather this:

Somali “Anarchy” Is More Orderly than Somali Government

I don't hate the idea of government. I want a government that protects my rights to private property (rather than steals it). As for Somalia, their government has no ability to protect anyone: no police / military power.  Having a govt, police, army, constitution and a court system is the key to enable free capitalism.

The island will be taken by the EU then. As collateral.