Crypto Casinos vs money laundering. - page 13.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: acroman08 on September 15, 2022, 04:35:41 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 04:56:20 PM

Let's be honest, money laundering is the best thing that can happen to a casino and there is where most of high rollers comes from. I have seen some rollers in the past that runs some huge scams and then go to the casinos to play with the scammed money and with that justify where they get the money from after hitting some huge wins.

would you mind sharing the high rollers that scammed someone and used it to gamble?

I believe this is a possibility. There are news about these on the internet. You can browse this site : https://www.gamblingnews.com/news/tag/crime

Quote from: acroman08 on September 15, 2022, 04:35:41 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 04:56:20 PM

Nowadays most casinos has KYC, but i don't think that is enough to stop the money laundering, what casinos should do is to investigate the source of the deposits to fight against this illegal activity, but that will not happen because is a win-win game from them.

you are asking people to share to the gambling site where the money actually came from? which I think is a huge privacy risk. I think no one will be comfortable sharing where their money came from to a gambling site.

If you happen to be withdrawing a huge amount of money and then the casino suspended it and ask for KYC including proof of fund, you might probably forced to give the details on where your funds coming from. I think this one depends on how huge is the money on risk.

Quote from: acroman08 on September 15, 2022, 04:35:41 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 04:56:20 PM

So, what do you say, does crypto casinos really care about money laundering?

No, it is all business to them, if the gambler provided the necessary documents proving that they are actually who they say they are, it is all good for them(at least that is what I think).

We have the same thought. I also think crypto casino really doesn't care where the money is coming from except if they are forced to investigate by an unexpected event.

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Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 04:56:20 PM

Let's be honest, money laundering is the best thing that can happen to a casino and there is where most of high rollers comes from. I have seen some rollers in the past that runs some huge scams and then go to the casinos to play with the scammed money and with that justify where they get the money from after hitting some huge wins.

would you mind sharing the high rollers that scammed someone and used it to gamble?

Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 04:56:20 PM

Nowadays most casinos has KYC, but i don't think that is enough to stop the money laundering, what casinos should do is to investigate the source of the deposits to fight against this illegal activity, but that will not happen because is a win-win game from them.

you are asking people to share to the gambling site where the money actually came from? which I think is a huge privacy risk. I think no one will be comfortable sharing where their money came from to a gambling site.

Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 04:56:20 PM

So, what do you say, does crypto casinos really care about money laundering?

No, it is all business to them, if the gambler provided the necessary documents proving that they are actually who they say they are, it is all good for them(at least that is what I think).

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Quote from: livingfree on September 15, 2022, 03:07:44 PM

That's how it will go. If a casino is telling that there's no required KYC but a user suddenly deposits a huge amount, it's really going to happen that they'll ask for KYC because it's part of their rules.

All casino site not problem with huge deposit amount and not really prefer pass KYC but actually needed when withdrawing with huge amount need to submit KYC.

Quote from: livingfree on September 15, 2022, 03:07:44 PM

I'm confused on this. Casinos shouldn't be problematic with the source of funds and they're only verifying the identity of the people so that they'll have it on record for them to send it to their government that required them to do.
That's only a compliance but most likely, they shouldn't really care at all and that's why they're known to be used like this illegally.

I worried if this cases happened when huge deposit amount and casino gambling site not hidden with costumer privacy by publishing to government, I think find with casino gambling without have submit KYC and problem faced right now with casino is the place for money laundering is not fault. I saw government officials in my country make casino gambling as place for saving their money and try how laundering without detected about money transfer.

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Quote from: Stalker22 on September 14, 2022, 04:08:59 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on September 14, 2022, 03:07:14 PM

In principle, I don’t see anything wrong with this, because if the police couldn’t catch the criminal while committing a crime, then there’s nothing to be done, and if he pays taxes, then that’s good.

Imagine if someone stole your car and then the next day showed up on the car market selling it. The police would be like, "Well, we could not catch him while he was stealing your car, and now he is free to sell it at the market." That cannot be right, because legally speaking, you are still the rightful owner of that car.

The same principle applies to money, because money obtained illegally belongs to the original owner(s) and not to criminals.

Your analogy is wrong. When the swindler took possession of the money, there is no longer a choice to catch him or not (if there is, of course, he must be caught), but there is a choice - to pay taxes on this money or not. If he at least pays taxes, it will be better than if he doesn't. What do you think? Or do you live in an ideal world where this simply cannot be because all the scammers are caught?

livingfree

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Quote from: Doell on September 15, 2022, 12:45:54 PM

Honestly I'm not a team that works among the gambling industry but considering that casinos have a rules, maybe if there are new users and deposit big funds at one of the trusted sites, it will require KYC.

That's how it will go. If a casino is telling that there's no required KYC but a user suddenly deposits a huge amount, it's really going to happen that they'll ask for KYC because it's part of their rules.

Quote from: Doell on September 15, 2022, 12:45:54 PM

Same with anticipating money laundering, where does the source of funds come from and we also have open sources to trace. But considering there are many casino non KYC and there are many crypto which is able to anonymize the owner too, so it will be difficult to find one.

I'm confused on this. Casinos shouldn't be problematic with the source of funds and they're only verifying the identity of the people so that they'll have it on record for them to send it to their government that required them to do.

That's only a compliance but most likely, they shouldn't really care at all and that's why they're known to be used like this illegally.

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Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 04:56:20 PM

I have seen some rollers in the past that runs some huge scams and then go to the casinos to play with the scammed money and with that justify where they get the money from after hitting some huge wins.

Same thing to what I see before. There's this one player who came in the chat and tells everyone that he is a hacker. I think this is somewhat believable since I always saw his name in the daily wagering contest. It can be their way to clean the money that they get from their illegal activities but on top of this is that they can also get lucky and earn more profit.

KYC in casinos are already there even before the issue in money laundering became rampant. It was required for a different reason though it still helps. Other than this, some casinos now have enforced a rule like you need to wager your deposits before you can withdraw it asap. Same goes if you will tip someone else.

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Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 04:56:20 PM

Let's be honest, money laundering is the best thing that can happen to a casino and there is where most of high rollers comes from. I have seen some rollers in the past that runs some huge scams and then go to the casinos to play with the scammed money and with that justify where they get the money from after hitting some huge wins.

Nowadays most casinos has KYC, but i don't think that is enough to stop the money laundering, what casinos should do is to investigate the source of the deposits to fight against this illegal activity, but that will not happen because is a win-win game from them.

So, what do you say, does crypto casinos really care about money laundering?

You'd be surprised at the level which the biggest crypto casinos operate. They go extensive lengths and do Blockchain analysis on all funds that pass through their systems for exactly this reason and be able to determine patterns that may indicate all sorts of criminal behavior. In some ways that is the biggest benefit of the Blockchain technology and once these gambling sites reach a certain peak they end up establishing a headquarters in a legal jurisdiction which will certainly take action against such crimes if found.

Doell

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Honestly I'm not a team that works among the gambling industry but considering that casinos have a rules, maybe if there are new users and deposit big funds at one of the trusted sites, it will require KYC. Same with anticipating money laundering, where does the source of funds come from and we also have open sources to trace. But considering there are many casino non KYC and there are many crypto which is able to anonymize the owner too, so it will be difficult to find one.

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Quote from: virasisog on September 15, 2022, 11:31:28 AM

Money launderers are wise enough not to choose casinos that require KYC. They prefer to keep their identities safe and private. Also, the source of fund doesn't really matter to some casino sites. They wouldn't mind checking on it one by one. Money launderers will also do everything so the authorities won't track their funds. They are even wiser now.

I agree, there are still casinos that don't require KYC but it could only be used up to a certain point since some casinos only allow it for gamblers that play with a small bankroll. Casinos that ask for the source of funds usually have KYC since that's one of the things they could include in the requirements.

Quote from: karabiber on September 15, 2022, 06:51:27 AM

I think kyc should not exist for crypto casinos.

That is how it used to be on most crypto casinos back then but now it's inevitable for some of the big casinos since not having KYC could potentially put them at risk and hinder their operation.

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Quote from: virasisog on September 15, 2022, 11:31:28 AM

Money launderers are wise enough not to choose casinos that require KYC. They prefer to keep their identities safe and private. Also, the source of fund doesn't really matter to some casino sites. They wouldn't mind checking on it one by one. Money launderers will also do everything so the authorities won't track their funds. They are even wiser now.

Although I know there's few trusted no KYC casino in this forum and they don't have any rules about money laundering, VPN usage etc, but I still hard to believe if they're not care anything about high illicit sources. As we know Tonardo.cash already got shutdown and they're a centralized mixer, there's a chance the no KYC casino might got shutdown too since they're helping fraudster. That's why I don't think they will take easy against fraudsters.

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Quote from: Solosanz on September 15, 2022, 10:55:00 AM

Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 15, 2022, 01:26:57 AM

Certainly there might be some casinos that are involved in money laundering but not all. Almost all crypto casinos are now strictly adhering to the KYC norms. Such regulations would make it impossible for a money laundering to happen. I still think a lot more needs to be done. The crypto casino industry is still very young when compared to online casinos.

Lol if the casinos involved in money laundering, of course the regulations will surely targeted and shutdown the casinos, the owner might go to jail.

Honestly I don't think there's a money launder will use a KYC casino to launder his dirty money, because there's a high chance his funds will be flagged and he have no way to withdraw his money. He must have enough privacy knowledge, so he will choose a coin or mixer in order to hide the origin funds.

Regulators have had a lot of questions about mixers lately and as we know from the tornado.cash story, flagged funds are blocked by many other platforms that have to comply with the regulators.

I read that big casinos are used to mix funds but it has to be done carefully and check the reputation of the casino carefully.

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Quote from: Solosanz on September 15, 2022, 10:55:00 AM

Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 15, 2022, 01:26:57 AM

Certainly there might be some casinos that are involved in money laundering but not all. Almost all crypto casinos are now strictly adhering to the KYC norms. Such regulations would make it impossible for a money laundering to happen. I still think a lot more needs to be done. The crypto casino industry is still very young when compared to online casinos.

Lol if the casinos involved in money laundering, of course the regulations will surely targeted and shutdown the casinos, the owner might go to jail.

Honestly I don't think there's a money launder will use a KYC casino to launder his dirty money, because there's a high chance his funds will be flagged and he has no way to withdraw his money. He must have enough privacy knowledge, so he will choose a coin or mixer to hide the origin funds.

Money launderers are wise enough not to choose casinos that require KYC. They prefer to keep their identities safe and private. Also, the source of fund doesn't really matter to some casino sites. They wouldn't mind checking on it one by one. Money launderers will also do everything so the authorities won't track their funds. They are even wiser now.

Solosanz

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 15, 2022, 01:26:57 AM

Certainly there might be some casinos that are involved in money laundering but not all. Almost all crypto casinos are now strictly adhering to the KYC norms. Such regulations would make it impossible for a money laundering to happen. I still think a lot more needs to be done. The crypto casino industry is still very young when compared to online casinos.

Lol if the casinos involved in money laundering, of course the regulations will surely targeted and shutdown the casinos, the owner might go to jail.

Honestly I don't think there's a money launder will use a KYC casino to launder his dirty money, because there's a high chance his funds will be flagged and he have no way to withdraw his money. He must have enough privacy knowledge, so he will choose a coin or mixer in order to hide the origin funds.

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Quote from: noorman0 on September 14, 2022, 10:20:56 AM

If KYC is for enforcing AML rules, it's certain that the casinos have their own secretive methods of how they direct their suspicions to this behavior (though sometimes they catch the wrong people). And yes casinos care about money laundering cases in any way to keep the company operating.

Only if they were following some certain rules that wouldn't revoke their operating license if proven guilty but it won't likely to happen since they wouldn't risk their license if they let cover some individual. I'm sure casino are down and ready to help the authority unless if they were doing some illegal/unlawful things within their casino but I doubt that would happen. License is very important than helping those unknown people behind the internet which casino doesn't care who they are as long as they profit. KYC nowadays is a thing that most casinos and gamblers should consider since the government are trying to catch money launderer.

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Quote from: karabiber on September 15, 2022, 06:51:27 AM

I think kyc should not exist for crypto casinos.

If a casino is ok without a license then it can go out without a KYC, KYC is part of the compliance of casinos to authorities they put it there for nothing but they are governed by rules because it is an online business entity that is regulated.

Quote

Everything is already registered on the blockchain. It doesn't matter who does what. The methods of combating black money need to be different.

How can it be different can you use give us ideas on how to battle money laundering without the need for KYC

Quote

It is important that the money is detected illegally. Because no casino would say no to large sums of money. This is how casinos make money. Your trace is clear in crypto but your identity is not. It is necessary to destroy the source of the fight against illegal money.

It's not really the money it's the people controlling the money, if they verify that one of their users is a known scammer or has recorded money laundering then they can easily prevent these people from using the casinos to launder their money or confiscate it legally, KYC is something we hate but its also something that will protect us.

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Quote from: makishart on September 14, 2022, 03:37:46 AM

To be honest casino will not able to determine where the money came from. that's unlike exchange site but in my opinion if i do believe of mostly of money that came from the crime were always going to the mixer rather than casino. I meant this needs more analyzation.
In my opinion the platform will not care about that. Sending money to the platform is also a win and lose decision caused by sometime the account can be banned or frozen and then money that already deposited became useless.

I think that the big casinos use the same transaction tracking tools as the exchanges, so you won't be able to deposit from a dirty address or even from a mixer (most likely when you deposit from a mixer you will be asked to go through the KYC and explain the origin of the funds). Therefore, if it is necessary to launder obviously dirty money, casinos are obviously not a good solution for this.

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I think kyc should not exist for crypto casinos. Everything is already registered on the blockchain. It doesn't matter who does what. The methods of combating black money need to be different. It is important that the money is detected illegally. Because no casino would say no to large sums of money. This is how casinos make money. Your trace is clear in crypto but your identity is not. It is necessary to destroy the source of the fight against illegal money.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 15, 2022, 01:26:57 AM

Certainly there might be some casinos that are involved in money laundering but not all. Almost all crypto casinos are now strictly adhering to the KYC norms. Such regulations would make it impossible for a money laundering to happen. I still think a lot more needs to be done. The crypto casino industry is still very young when compared to online casinos.

Money launderers will take the best option if they can and the use of casinos has no way to escape even though they will strictly be implemented KYC and everyone can make a denial of where the money comes from and nobody will suspect you if you have a business.
I'd see no chance to eliminate money laundering as these people will find another way. You can just notice that someday casinos are one of the major contributors to this criminal activity.

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Quote from: blockman on September 14, 2022, 06:38:49 PM

Quote from: dothebeats on September 14, 2022, 06:06:04 PM

The money that the gambler uses to play on a casino is out of the casino's business. Even if something suspicious is happening on the account of the gambler, the source of funds IMO should not be questioned. They are not a law enforcement entity nor do they have any authority to ask gamblers where their money came from. If anything it should be the law enforcement that chases after these money launderers, and they can seek help from casinos with what information they store for the user that the police are looking for.

Basically, that's true and the casino won't mind where their customers are getting funds as they're a business in that form. If there's something to be investigated then they have to let it through a government agency that focuses on it. But these days, due to KYC and other types of verifications, it seems that they're sharing a burden now which is a task of the government. As long as the casino is licensed, those money launderers will just have to go through them with that confidence of not getting caught unless they're asked as they appear and might hold their money if verified they're money launderers.

Casinos can't hold your money because you're a suspected money launderer. They'd be more than happy to cater your business with them because you have the potential to bring in some big bucks on to the platform. They cannot actively tip off the police that someone deposited a very large amount on the casino because that is bad for their business. For most casinos, they'd only throw you in the bus if they are being questioned, or are asked by the police to give out some details. KYC might help catching these money launderers but casinos aren't proactive in helping that happen.

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on September 14, 2022, 11:47:18 PM

Quote from: alegotardo on September 14, 2022, 08:34:31 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 04:56:20 PM

So, what do you say, does crypto casinos really care about money laundering?

It depends on the country where the casino is based, some have stricter rules to the point where they only accept cryptos that are not privacy focused, in addition to requiring KYC. Others are more liberal, don't ask for KYC even when making large withdrawals, and even accept privacy-focused deposits and payments in cryptocurrencies.

I believe that crypto casinos shouldn't worry about this, but they often need to comply with the laws of the countries they operate in order to continue operating.

What is happening is that more and more casinos are asking for KYC, especially above certain thresholds. Many don't ask for KYC if you deposit $50, get lucky and win $500 and withdraw it. But for higher levels of money they do. It is unlikely that very low amounts are used for money laundering and if they are, it would take a long time, so not worth it in most cases. With higher amounts it is more likely and that is why they start asking for KYC above a certain amount.

Let us all accept the fact that if we really wanted to gamble in legit way then best to do it with legit site or more trusted , i am not saying that it is legit when a site ask for KYC but at least it is more simpler to understand that they are truly willing to provide better service and costumer satisfaction ,
have seen KYC asking casino and yes they are something that worth trusted .
but we have all differences in checking and believing site so lets stick for that belief and understanding.

Topic: Crypto Casinos vs money laundering. - page 13. (Read 3508 times)